Soniti Posted June 3, 2011 Author Posted June 3, 2011 Nice, you are certainly diligent. Excellent! Yeah, it was posted but determined to not be so practical in matches as the dash appears to be 1-2 frames.
Kuuhaku Posted June 4, 2011 Posted June 4, 2011 Modified the corner combo I posted earlier for about the same amount of damage + oki setup In the corner (or close enough for 3CD to put them in the corner) 5B 5CD 3C BBL sj.8D j.2CD (level 3) frog walk forward 5CC 236A (george activates) 236A dash 5CC dash 3C sword iris dash 5CC frog -5992 damage. Uses 3 winds, regains 3 winds (and close to the 4th bar of wind). I forgot to check the meter gain, but it's probably like 47-48. I asked gli to test it out on everyone (because I was lazy) and it works on everyone. Just the timing is slightly different.
TD Posted June 6, 2011 Posted June 6, 2011 not really a combo, but l think its worth mentioning. (corner, 5cc frog oki) dash (opponent neutral techs) IAD 1d (frog activates) l tested it on myself (lol), and deduced that its really good with a little conditioning. the 1d pushes the foe out of the corner, so you can fit your tiny loli body in there. heres the shitty combo l got afterwards: ...(frog hits) 5b jc2d dj 2c(lv2) land 2a(w) dash under 5cc pumpkin oki - 2.6k, 1 wind l tried connecting lv3 j2c from the frog hit, and it would've worked... but the effects of 1d dont wear off in time. l got frustrated and decided to stop tinkering with it, but ill share it and hopefully someone gets something out of it.
Sindelian Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 Sounds fun and trolly^^^ So if I understood it right, that's a cross over you found. Don't you think it would be a better idea to cross back over once the frog activates? Just to keep them in the corner?
iSadClown Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 wtf is this? 5B 5CDC 7jc j.3DC dash 5B j.C jc j.2D5C land BBL frog 5CC 236A 5CC 214B There was a guy online doing this instead of the other stuff, but this looks cool but seems like a total waste of wind for the damage output.
Kuuhaku Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 Corner carry + knock down. Plus, he should regain 2ish bars back from that. There's better combos though for corner carry that will use less wind. If he modifies the ender, he can end with frog instead of pumpkin.
kro_ Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 not really a combo, but l think its worth mentioning. (corner, 5cc frog oki) dash (opponent neutral techs) IAD 1d (frog activates) l tested it on myself (lol), and deduced that its really good with a little conditioning. the 1d pushes the foe out of the corner, so you can fit your tiny loli body in there. heres the shitty combo l got afterwards: ...(frog hits) 5b jc2d dj 2c(lv2) land 2a(w) dash under 5cc pumpkin oki - 2.6k, 1 wind l tried connecting lv3 j2c from the frog hit, and it would've worked... but the effects of 1d dont wear off in time. l got frustrated and decided to stop tinkering with it, but ill share it and hopefully someone gets something out of it. You could always just do 236b instead of 2a(w) into BBL if you want more damage. Then cross under during BBL, combo into frog, and 5cc them back into the corner with pumpkin oki. The original combo you posted is just fine though. Other characters would kill for a viable crossup that does similar damage and oki. The one problem I see with the whole crossup thing in the corner is that there's a significant delay between George activating and the opponent being able to move - so it's possible to react to this if someone knows that Rachel can crossup in the corner with wind. Then you'd be the one stuck in the corner. Typically, you should aim to cross up the opponent right before frog activates to make it harder to react to. After a neutral tech I tend to do meaty 5a/5b > IAD > 1d > George activates. It makes it so that George activates right as you pass over his head and conditions him to block in the normal direction at first. You can apply the same concept with pumpkin too. For example, if you have pumpkin out at ~236b range away from the opponent, you can do: 66d 5b (at this point pumpkin should be slightly behind the opponent) IAD 1d (hit 1d just as you pass over his head) Pumpkin hits much faster than j.b so it's much harder to block. Sounds fun and trolly^^^ So if I understood it right, that's a cross over you found. Don't you think it would be a better idea to cross back over once the frog activates? Just to keep them in the corner? That combo does keep them in the corner since he dashes under after the 2a whiff.
TD Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 l see, thank you. l think l tried it once yesterday on someone and despite the conditioning, they still jumped out for free =/. either it's too obvious, or it needs aloooot of conditioning... it wasn't a complete failure though. l never thought to do 5a first since 5b is my go-to poke for all things oki. l definitely will use that. l never thought about pumpkin crossups either so that was also extremely helpful :3
[SpA]Relentless Posted June 12, 2011 Posted June 12, 2011 There's something about a combo I tried yesterday and I'm not sure what to think about it, maybe you can shed some light on the matter. The combo (opponent in corner): 5b 5cd 3c8d 5b jc j.c 2d djc j.2c(lvl2) (land) 2a(w) 5c(w)c 214a 3c 236a (frog hits) etc. After setting the frog, when I dashed up and did 3c, the combo bluebeated. What's weird about this is I had all tech options for the dummy turned on (neutral airtech, emergency tech on, quick getup and stagger recovery on) so technically there should be no way I can do a bluebeat combo on the dummy. Did I miss an option in the settings or could this be a bug, and this combo isn't really escapable?
Koas Posted June 13, 2011 Posted June 13, 2011 (edited) You've probably missed some option. I tested this combo out today, and I found that if instead of dash 3c 236a you do just 5b 236a (5b will be at pretty much max range) you lose like 1 meter and 30 damage compared to the dash 3c version. But since you don't dash, the 236a pole won't be offscreen if you do 5b, so you get an extra pole on oki (two if you plant one as meaty too). Compare this combo 2b 5b 6b 5d3c 8d 5b jc 2d dj j2c (lvl 2) 2a (whiff) 5cc (first hit whiff) 214a dash 3c 236a (frog hits) dash 6b 5cc 214b oki 3221 damage, 38 meter gain to this 2b 5b 6b 5d3c 8d 5b jc 2d dj j2c (lvl 2) 2a (whiff) 5cc (first hit whiff) 214a 5b 236a (frog hits) dash 5cc 214b oki 3194 damage, 37 meter gain (and a pole on oki) Also, since you don't do dash 3c, this combo is easier than the first one, and it's pretty much impossible to drop it (assuming you land the first 5cc correctly). edit, forgot 5b after 3c 8d Edited June 13, 2011 by Koas
Tari Posted June 14, 2011 Posted June 14, 2011 Haven't been around for a while, and I didn't see an answer to this, but do midscreen BBL->lvl 3 j.2c combos work anymore? Seems the opponent always falls away from me, now, regardless of which side they were on when I hit them with BBL. Also, hi again. edit: just to clarify, I'm talking about the one-wind lvl 3 j.2c fatal counter combos off BBL.
TD Posted June 14, 2011 Posted June 14, 2011 (edited) hello. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wx5PrCmCDR8 edit: the old cs1 version doesn't work anymore. this is the new version Edited June 14, 2011 by TD
Tari Posted June 14, 2011 Posted June 14, 2011 (edited) Oh huh, dashing over them after flying up works. Guess that's the new way of doing it. I also have no idea how I didn't see that video in the first post. Ah, well, that's life. Edited June 14, 2011 by Tari
Kuuhaku Posted June 16, 2011 Posted June 16, 2011 (edited) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJNR6yuRxm0#t=59s Super ultra FUUU cat chair combo that does 7.2k damage in the corner. With some optimization, this can probably hit 8k since it builds 50 meter so you can do a third BBL + shenanigans. I'll work on it when my stick gets fixed. This would be baller to do on someone who does a bad DP in the corner. Edited June 16, 2011 by Bohemian Polka
Zeromus_X Posted June 16, 2011 Posted June 16, 2011 Anyone have any 5CC FC combos yet? Or is 2C just better for punishing? 5CC seems so useless as an FC. =(
Kuuhaku Posted June 16, 2011 Posted June 16, 2011 5C 3CD and then whatever you do off of 3C. 5C 3CD BBL hurts pretty bad. That only works on ground hit though. On air hit... yeah... it's pretty useless afraik.
Soniti Posted June 18, 2011 Author Posted June 18, 2011 The rachel in this set of videos uses what appears to be a combo for some extra damage involving 2x lvl 2 j.2c. Basically he goes into lvl2 j.2c from 5b very early in a combo, then when he lands from the j.2c he cancels to 5b, catching the opponent on the way up, SJC's it and does another j.c into lvl2 j.2c. We'll have to test how difficult it is vs midscreen combo into 5b (frog hits).
TD Posted June 18, 2011 Posted June 18, 2011 the only significant difference is meter gain. tested from 6a, one rep of j.2c lv2 does about 400 less than 2 reps. pretty negligible damage wise. from 6a, one rep gives 22 meter while two gives 32. now that's delicious. adding bbl into the equation, doing two reps only gives you an increase of about 100 damage. in terms of difficulty, it feels like everything just falls into place. there's no difficult timings besides the normal j.2c stuff. lf you need heat for bbl ender or in general and you have a wind to spare, then this is good. now whether it works smoothly on everyone, ldk. (but it should)
[SpA]Relentless Posted June 18, 2011 Posted June 18, 2011 The problem with j.2c is that it has same move proration, so if you do it twice in a combo and want to continue the combo afterwards, you will most likely end up with less damage than if you only did 1 j.2c.
Kuuhaku Posted June 19, 2011 Posted June 19, 2011 (edited) Relentless;1056349']The problem with j.2c is that it has same move proration' date=' so if you do it twice in a combo and want to continue the combo afterwards, you will most likely end up with less damage than if you only did 1 j.2c.[/quote'] Not true. You also have to consider the base damage of the move compared to your other options. Plus, the repeat proration is 80, so it's not even that bad. The only reason why that's even there is to keep Rachel's damage from not becoming stupid while not discouraging using that move in combos. A good example- I have combos where I use 5CC three times and I still get good damage (5-6k). The repeat proration on 5CC is kinda butt (50%) but the damage from 5CC + the untechable time for the wallbound make up for it. On top of that, using it as the last move gets me hard knock down which I like better than 3C knock down. So... yeah. When weighing the value of a combo, there's lots of things you want to consider. Edited June 20, 2011 by Bohemian Polka
[SpA]Relentless Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 I'm not saying the damage is always lower (especially when using lvl3 j.2c) and of course there are situations where you have to use j.2c to continue the combo. I'm just saying that there's a possibility you won't get higher damage or not a lot more if you do it (eg if you do a combo starting from a bad proration starter going into lvl2 j2c, bbl then doing lvl3 j2c, frog etc you won't get a lot more damage than if you just did frog into bbl ender afterwards, maybe even less). Also, if you do 5cc three times with 5cc being the ender, the knockdown isn't even as hard anymore but you will end up farther away from the opponent. I'd say that's a disadvantage for most matchups.
TD Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 not really, unless you mean due to the airborne state having less untechable time than if 5cc connected with a grounded opponent. but most 5cc oki ends this way. look, try this. (corner with pole) 5b 5cdc dash 5b jc 2d dj2c (lv2) land dash 5cc dash 3c(1) 214c dash 5cc oki. also, new? combo from j.2c crossup. ... IAD 1d j.2c land 3c(3) 236b dash 5a(1) jc 2d dj2c(lv2) 236b jc djc j214c [bbl...] l made this up yesterday, i'll post damage heat gain later. it's character specific (only 3c 236b able chars), and ldk how many of them it works on just yet. but it's the only 2 wind j.2c combo l could come up with that did good damage ._.
Kuuhaku Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 (edited) Relentless;1057305']I'm not saying the damage is always lower (especially when using lvl3 j.2c) and of course there are situations where you have to use j.2c to continue the combo. I'm just saying that there's a possibility you won't get higher damage or not a lot more if you do it (eg if you do a combo starting from a bad proration starter going into lvl2 j2c, bbl then doing lvl3 j2c, frog etc you won't get a lot more damage than if you just did frog into bbl ender afterwards, maybe even less). Also, if you do 5cc three times with 5cc being the ender, the knockdown isn't even as hard anymore but you will end up farther away from the opponent. I'd say that's a disadvantage for most matchups. Uh... nope. 5B 5CD 3C BBL lvl 3 j2C (2 wind ver) frog 5CC 236Ax2 dash 5CC dash 3C sword iris dash 5CC ^ With this combo you'll still get hard knock down. You have enough time to set down George and meaty an A cannon. This is true even off of a really bad starter like 4B. So you might actually want to try things out for yourself. As for how "disadvantageous" this setup is. I've yet to find a character that has a solid way out. The distance from the corner makes most reversal options (DP RC, busters/sledge, etc) not an option. And even characters that kind of have a way out like Hakumen (who can counter on wake up to try to get out), instead of meatying A cannon, you can run up and grab him before George activates or if you don't think you have time (like he decides to Yukikaze), you can run away and summon Pumpkin. Either way, you're at advantage because he has to let you summon a pumpkin. And once you have them blocking or getting hit by George, you can do whatever and put them back in the same situation. Anyway, because of the base damage of level 2 j.2C (which is 1200) and because of the ground bounce, there are lots of situations where doing multiple j.2Cs in a combo will net you more damage. You shouldn't discount a combo as automatically doing less damage because repeat proration (plus j.2C's repeat proration isn't even bad). If you still need further examples, I'll post videos once I get my hands on the HDPVR and once my stick is fixed. Edited June 21, 2011 by Bohemian Polka
TD Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 speaking of 5cc oki... why is it that my a lobelia NEVER hits a character rolling forward? not only that, but they roll forward and they can punish for free due to a lobelia recovery. its really annoying because l dont know what the problem could be, and my opinion of 5cc oki has dropped since. has anyone else experienced this? l know air 5cc has less untechable time than if 5cc hit a grounded foe so that could be a reason, but currently its pretty much impossible to get a 'grounded' 5cc at the end of a big combo. not even delay 5cc so that the bottom part of the umbrella hits and the game recognizes it as a grounded 5cc. ldk. am l doing something wrong?
Kuuhaku Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 (edited) speaking of 5cc oki... why is it that my a lobelia NEVER hits a character rolling forward? not only that, but they roll forward and they can punish for free due to a lobelia recovery. its really annoying because l dont know what the problem could be, and my opinion of 5cc oki has dropped since. has anyone else experienced this? l know air 5cc has less untechable time than if 5cc hit a grounded foe so that could be a reason, but currently its pretty much impossible to get a 'grounded' 5cc at the end of a big combo. not even delay 5cc so that the bottom part of the umbrella hits and the game recognizes it as a grounded 5cc. ldk. am l doing something wrong? Only A cannon if you see them neutral tech. If they roll forward, 5B them. Or you can A cannon anyway and wind it down and it'll hit them. Also, even doing an air hit 5CC, it still works for me fine. I don't think you really need to go for a ground hit. Most people will neutral tech. They'll only roll if they think Rachel's not paying attention. But rolling is very risky in that situation since it's giving Rachel a free hit. EDIT: Oh. If you want to super make them feel bad for rolling... free 5C starter. Edited June 21, 2011 by Bohemian Polka
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