GreeniX Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 Crisse les gars c'est parce que c'était supposé être ma job d'écrire des murs de texte. Je ferme mon tab de dustloop et oublie de le ré-ouvrir pendant quelques jours, et c'est ça qui se passe? On an unrelated note, since I'm just now catching up on the thread... Sorry to hear about all that, Blade. I'd like to make the same offer DerQ did. There's nothing like a little Ky on Sol heated action to fire up one's tamashii, wouldn't you say?
Rhannmah Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 Curse on block Ara into touch of death combo? who needs touch of death when you can have block of death? also, kokonoe's screen control and zoning far surpass what CT arakune was capable of.
ReynTime180 Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 Curse on block Ara into touch of death combo? Regardless, I'm bowing out. We've discussed this enough and it's not going anywhere. 2A into touch of death blockstring and death on anything combo? And I don't know if it's not getting anywhere, that lengthy post by Dhaos didn't seem like there was no point in it.
Sophisticat Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 I've seen the video. I still find that more manageable than getting cursed. Or claplooped by Carl. Or infinite-string guard broken by Rachel. Etc. Yes, I agree it's broken and ban-worthy, but I'd still take that over what CT had to offer. And no, it's not going anywhere because we don't have tourney results yet. Let's wait until TSB and CEO show us their stuff before concluding anything. EDIT: Actually, Heartless is going to be there tomorrow at Foonzo to show us the blockstring. We'll have a better idea then.
ReynTime180 Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 Damn, I'm working tomorrow. Surprise! I got employed! No longer in the poverty zone.
Heartless Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 (edited) Actually, Heartless is going to be there tomorrow at Foonzo to show us the blockstring. We'll have a better idea then. Doing it in training mode is a thing, but doing it in match is going to take a couple matches. As a player of the Grimalkin, I don't care what you do with her. Just stop talking about her, it makes the FGC look bad. Edited January 23, 2014 by Heartless
akuma_matata Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 Meh, at least Kokonoe requires a lot of thought. Case in point : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAdPD-9edF8&t=37m30s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAdPD-9edF8&t=39m10s Dat yomi.
DerQ Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 So you seduce them. Give them honor, give them money, offer them a place to stay, that's fine, it's worth it. The thing, you don't explicitly do any of that. Out of all the "pro" or high level players that could consider competing or picking up this game, I can't seriously think they get that much free monetary value out of it. I used Nemo earlier iirc for my argument and at last year's EVO, Nemo didn't win anything in the marvel tournament. He's not sponsored so he shoulders travel costs (Plane ticket from Japan to us, lodging, etc.). If anything, he was competition in grudge money matches because he wrecked havoc that weekend on many players willing to put money on the table and bet on a long set. If he plays blazblue, very few individuals will put down as much money as the capcom crowd in money matches. Our tournaments have lower turnouts as well. Even if you rank first at EVO, it's not a whole lot to go about. It's something, but it's not /that/ big to say they'd just be in it for the money. Everyone seems to be afraid of going all the way with the ban. I'm not aware of the exact ramifications of Banning a character, so if anyone wants to outline them, I'd appreciate it. I see 4 reasons with various degrees of importance: 1. Some people look at this community and say we're cry babies for thinking about banning her. Whether or not you value the opinion of people who wouldn't necessarily play or pick your game is up to you. I find this one weak because I frankly don't care that much. In the bigger scale of things, it's not increasing active players and having a low turnout might affect how much importance a tournament organizer will give you. 2. If you're to enforce a ban, it has to be consistent. This is so important, yet easily overlooked. What basis are you proposing a ban that would also stand true for whoever else fit the criteria? Logically, if your criteria has a good foundation and is agreed upon, it should be applied across the board. "She's dumb" is a gross simplification of the actual issue and a poor criteria to ban a character. "But she's really dumber than the rest of the cast" still doesn't draw a line where a character should be banned or not. Depending on the context, it might be easy or not. The best context is evidence. What most people against the ban will say is "Prove me she can establish a convincing amount of results in tournaments first". Video evidence of tech is not enough because training mode != playing an actual match. 3. This is more my pet peeve, but going for a ban at anytime is treating a competitive environment the wrong way. A ban is an out-of-game solution for an in-game problem. If you say that banning is the best way to deal with the problem, then you're just avoiding or not accepting it for what it is and what could be done inside of the game to attempt resolving the issue. Whether it be something you don't consider fun or fair to adjust to is considered ban worthy or not, then you're not fully honest in saying you're competing. The game, it's balance and it's rules are set in stone and it's up to the competitor to deal with those. Competition, to me, shouldn't care about your opinions on these things. The moment you dislike an aspect of a game is the moment it'll take you longer to learn to deal with it appropriately. Don't get me wrong though, that doesn't mean you should be forced to play as a serious competitor. You can choose whatever suits you best when it comes to enjoying a fighter and it's competitive aspects. But if any part of the game doesn't match your view of competitive merits, then don't try and change it for those that actually don't mind said things and try to win. Whether it be learning learning to deal with Kokonoe's Bullshit or my personal favorite tonight of Valk's "You need to IB everything" mixup game, the best way to address all in-game problems is with in-game solutions. If you don't want to, it's your problem and yours only. 4. This is kind of the reality check that even if you enforce a ban on her, you're only affecting competitive events. Try banning her from casual or online play. In theory, you'd also desire for any player to be treating the game with the same rules. If the US starts banning her at local events, other scenes are not playing the same game in a way. If Japan doesn't ban her but we do, the idea of traveling to go to Japan and play over there means I won't be competition over there. That'll probably be the last time I'll talk about it online, walls of text are long to write and read. If I misphrased something, feel free to ask me though and I'll reply right here. But gonna avoid long walls because this is the gist of all I believe on the Koko-no-way deal
kirbster Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 @DerQ : just saw your post about Mishimas. He's just exaggerating and making fun of us without really knowing what he's talking about, Mishimas are very strong but not as OP as Kokonoe. Plus they're actually realllyyyy high execution characters, but that's another discussion. The only reason I wouldn't ban Koko-no-way (lol) is really because our anime community is finally starting to get recognized IMO. P4A was very popular for a long time, and BBCP is getting a lot of attention and exposure. Hell, Blazblue being a main game at EVO has been a dream of mine ever since I started playing it competitively. But that's the thing, her being in the roster turns the game into a complete joke. So banning her would bring negative attention to our community... And I'm afraid anime games' growth in popularity and relevance will take a hit. Then again, I don't even see the point of playing such a stupid game in the first place... As I said earlier, either way, the damage has been done. #whensbbcp2 #fuckkokonoe
ReynTime180 Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 I don't think there's any real way to fix this situation. Ban her: negativity inside the community which could destroy the game. Don't ban her: negativity inside the community which could destroy the game. Patch her: Completely change her to the point where shes a different character (I don't really see any other way tbh) Plus, people who play koko would have to rethink their whole gameplan for any major coming up......
Sophisticat Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 So banning her would bring negative attention to our community... And I'm afraid anime games' growth in popularity and relevance will take a hit. Then again, I don't even see the point of playing such a stupid game in the first place... As I said earlier, either way, the damage has been done. #whensbbcp2 #fuckkokonoe Not necessarily. This is partly why I think waiting for TSB and CEO results would be a good thing. If it does indeed turn out that Koko is bannable, then we have a valid reason for a ban. Then we can be all solemn-like and say "since it has been proven beyond all doubt that Kokonoe enjoys a significant advantage over the rest of the cast, to the point where a fair match's integrity and competitive value is compromised, the community has collectively come to the unanimous decision that she is to be banned from all future major tournaments until she is patched". Now even the Capcom crowd would have to be all "yo guys, you totally made a decision that we would make!" If it's PR problem, then it has a solution.
mAc Chaos Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 even if she did dominate the thrust of the opposition to banning her is to take the game as it is and deal with whatever it has so that wouldnt convince them.
Sophisticat Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 That, I would be against. We're not like the Cap crowd where playing games with only a few viable characters is accepted. We'll simply have to take a stand on the matter and be respected for that.
Brice Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 I'd like to do something interesting? tonight, but mostly very serious. Please be there early. It might take a while. Thanks. ps: can someone bring a laptop for this plz. orz mine has been ordered though :D
oDHAOSo Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 Not necessarily. This is partly why I think waiting for TSB and CEO results would be a good thing. If it does indeed turn out that Koko is bannable, then we have a valid reason for a ban. Then we can be all solemn-like and say "since it has been proven beyond all doubt that Kokonoe enjoys a significant advantage over the rest of the cast, to the point where a fair match's integrity and competitive value is compromised, the community has collectively come to the unanimous decision that she is to be banned from all future major tournaments until she is patched". Now even the Capcom crowd would have to be all "yo guys, you totally made a decision that we would make!" If it's PR problem, then it has a solution. Using the tournaments as clinical trials to provide evidence for kokonoe 's advantage could convince even more people, and so I agree. Although it's not absolutely empirical evidence, I think it would help.
oDHAOSo Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 (edited) I'd like to do something interesting? tonight, but mostly very serious. Please be there early. It might take a while. Thanks. ps: can someone bring a laptop for this plz. orz mine has been ordered though :D How early? Like 4 o clock? How serious? Edited January 23, 2014 by oDHAOSo
DerQ Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 Well... I think it was kr3wman who pointed "If the whole top 8 is one character, it's hard to not think about it at this point. Otherwise fuck it" Couldn't agree any more
Brice Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 Earlier than 7pm would be the best, but mostly before 8 or 9, else it won't be enough. Computer would be to take notes of the discussion. The kind of serious that we can just go forward in life.
ReynTime180 Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 Why does important stuff have to happen without me?
Lunar_Divider Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 I'm thinking for now just automatically assume that Koko is banned from future tournaments by default and start practicing with someone else. Looking at all of the recent threads and articles on SRK I believe it's pretty safe to assume Koko won't be allowed. The general consensus seems to be that she needs a nerf until shes ready for tournament play and I honestly don't blame the majority of people who want her banned. If shes allowed as she is right now I can see tournaments just becoming Blazblue: Kokonoephantasma until Arcsys comes out with an update. On the other hand I can sympathize with Koko mains not wanting to start over this far into the year with big name tournaments just around the corner. I feel like this will severely effect Blazblue's presence in a negative way and the last thing we need is something like this happening for the community. It's a shame that we all can't just unanimously agree on one thing like our friends overseas can without some sort of community backlash.
Brice Posted January 24, 2014 Posted January 24, 2014 and I didn't play a single game tonight gratz Brice.... I will play next time! it's official! it was very interesting and I think we are slowly heading somewhere :P for further addition to the discussion plz do it on sankishin thanks. thread will up tomorrow
ReynTime180 Posted January 24, 2014 Posted January 24, 2014 What did you guys do that was so important? I imagine it had to do with the recent topic if discussion?
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