[CS2] Iron Tager General Discussion

[mAc Chaos]

Meh, seems already played out to me. Catches me sometimes though.

[A.X.I.S.]

It's not really good on Haku-men...its really a gimmick and troll pressure tool.

4D on the other hand is amazing now...you guys will love it.

[mAc Chaos]

I thought 4D was pretty good in CS1 too.

[Mike Z]

So am I on something, or can he not do XYH xx 720 in CS2 on 360?

Maybe I'm really bad...?

[A.X.I.S.]

You had that problem too Mike?

It felt like I cancel'd its recovery with it...could be some change we are not aware of.

I remember seeing a vid of people canceling into it but when I try it I have to let go of the D button for it to work.

[OrionXElite]

You have to cancel into the 720 within the first 10 frames of XYH. Basically you'll do 360D>360C to make it work. Once I'm warmed up, I get the motions down to the point where I'm plinking D~C basically. Visually, you have to hit C and have the 720(540) motion completed before he puts his hands together. Thats the ONLY time you can cancel out of XYH.

[Karsticles]

Hello Tagarians,

Two noob questions:

1) The player in the below video seems pretty good, but I never see him use Gadget Finger; why is that? (starts ~20 min in):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwsrBQsDZuw

2) Why don't I ever see people use Voltec Charge at long ranges? It seems like half of Tager's game relies on having Spark Bolt as a threat, but most competitive players appear content with walking forward and blocking/getting hit until it's full, and then they make a comeback. Why not skip to the good stuff?

Many thanks!

[A.X.I.S.]

Not really a noob question but I'll give it a go.

That Tager is Galileo, he does strange stuff like that.

Gadget is only really useful if 2D doesn't push to the corner another thing about gadget is that it puts you in a basic 50/50 the 2 characters he fights Hakumen and Lambda can easily get around it.

Its just generally not a good idea to gadget them without a trick up your sleeve.

For your second question Tager can voltec charge at long range if he want to but walking forward on an opponent trying to retreat is much better in a lot of cases and we always want to be close to our opponent no matter how dangerous they can be at close range. (Que CT Rachel.)

[Karsticles]

Oh, so the Gadget Finger is matchup dependent? Interesting.

What do you mean by him doing strange stuff? He seemed very effective to me.

I'm still not following the Voltec Charge train of thought. It just seems as though the ability to have that ready to punish is much more valuable than walking forward and blocking normals for 10 seconds. Maybe my opinion will change once PSN is back up and I can play more.

[TagerTime]

Hello Tagarians,

Two noob questions:

1) The player in the below video seems pretty good, but I never see him use Gadget Finger; why is that? (starts ~20 min in):

Many thanks!

i just watched the last several matches and he uses gadget quite a few times.

this part of the match is hilarious

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwsrBQsDZuw=player_detailpage#t=2964s

i was suprised to see gali mess up bigtime at this part. it cost him the match:(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwsrBQsDZuw=player_detailpage#t=3055s

[Heroic_Legacy]

i was suprised to see gali mess up bigtime at this part. it cost him the match:(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwsrBQsDZuw=player_detailpage#t=3055s

Earlier in the video he fought the same hakumen and did a reno burst into 720 and caught him with the exact same setup.

[A.X.I.S.]

So guys lets talk.

BBCS2 netcode is horrible, I lag with anyone at anytime, I lagged with people in MI and my internet is pretty good.

I find it strange I didn't lag with SoCal but yet I lag with virginia.

And the yesterday I got lag switched during my guard break 720.

Yeah I remember why I hate online.

CS2 Tager makes me cry in sadness and tears at the same time.

6A destroys scrubs but its rare to throw it out full screen on a smart player who is magnetized.

6A's increased range makes it so 5A>5C>6A pulls them back in.

And 4D makes 6A into a frame trap or at least a safe gatling, even on IB your opponent can't punish you and I love it.

Sadly the IB nerf is annoying, more annoying than I expected.

Oh and I added the Noel match up info in the match up thread.

Check it out.

[FlyingVe]

Hmm... CS2 netcode has been really good for me so far.

CS2 Tager makes me sad too. Arksys did a good job shoring up the game in CS2, but now that some of the silly stuff is gone, mainly the IB nerf and making most moves safer, one of the few things Tager could take advantage of is gone. We got a new gimmick or two, but Tager's Neutral game is still non-existant, and most things are safer than before. Lower damage gives you more chances to guess right/gimmick someone, but I'm getting really tired of having to do that to beat decent players.

Edited May 14, 2011 by FlyingVe

[A.X.I.S.]

Ve I weeped...day 4 of BB:CS I feel ok I just have to be more random.

People haven't learned how to deal with my 6A pull yet which is good because I don't use it that much.

[FlyingVe]

Maybe with time I'll change my mind, I haven't spent the quality time I want to with CS2 yet. But Tager is very disappointing, and since he didn't get anything new, I'm not even really having fun with him right now...

[Osuna]

Pessimism wins again! I'm not disappointed at all. Everything is what I expected it would be. Honestly, I don't actually think I'm pessimistic. I don't really see how anyone could have expected anything different from an honest analysis of the the changes that we've been aware of.

[FlyingVe]

Don't get me wrong, it's exactly what I expected, there's just a difference between thinking about it and living it, if you feel me. I'll probably come around in a week or so.

[A.X.I.S.]

Pessimism wins again! I'm not disappointed at all. Everything is what I expected it would be. Honestly, I don't actually think I'm pessimistic. I don't really see how anyone could have expected anything different from an honest analysis of the the changes that we've been aware of.

I am still weeping, but hey we still rape Noel.

[Osuna]

We should get together a bilingual letter to ASW explaining that the reason grapplers discourage new players and can make things less fun for people is because they rely on unintuitive and often unreactionable mix ups that take more effort and time to learn for the defender than traditional high/low mix ups. So buffing his throws, giving him more unintuitive moves and nerfing/removing his legitimately strong options not only makes him very bad at tournament level, but makes him even More unfun for new players to fight.

Which in my opinion defeats the entire purpose of making him bad in the first place. Then collect signatures or something.

[A.X.I.S.]

I love you Osuna we should totally do that.

Yuumura made second at a SBO qualifier.

That dude got some sick dice rolling for him.

He lost to rin kinda bad.

[Nobus3r1]

Pessimism wins again! I'm not disappointed at all. Everything is what I expected it would be. Honestly, I don't actually think I'm pessimistic. I don't really see how anyone could have expected anything different from an honest analysis of the the changes that we've been aware of.

Indeed. I was pessimistic about Tager even before I sat through the first ~1 hour of A-Cho footage that got linked to on SRK. Pessimism in this case reinforced by the fact that this segment didn't feature a single Tager player.

[Astaroth136]

Changes I hate:

• No more 4D after a blocked 2C
  
• No more jump cancelling 6A
  
• IB nerf
  
• The new throws, where they go flying through the air
  
• Damage nerf
  
  
  Changes I love:
  
  
  • Guard primer nerf. That rounding down 1 primer really helps.
    
  • Guard break -> 360/720
    
  • Gadget finger off of every 360A
    
  • Stronger pull on 360s.
    
  • Pre-flash pull on 720
    
  • Everything is air unblockable
    

  It's a combination of joy, hatred, and sadness for me right now.

[Koopa_Klawz]

im pretty much salty about the whole thing right now. i can only imagine how bad his new bad match ups will be.

[Tae Seong Kim]

His charge 6A is alright. It worked for me very well earlier because people were unfamiliar with it. However, they'll learn and start to punish it later, and 6A will suck. It does help against zoning quite well, but I will still trade it for the old 6A.

[A.X.I.S.]

I still use 6A as a pressure tool, its just gimmicky as hell full screen.