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[Tophatmoffet]

Mitsuru I feel is a "good" character but only gets over because of her ridiculous damage output. Without that, what does she have that will make you afraid of her?

Her amazing neutral game.

Her DP into super or not mindgame.

Her range and pressure.

[Volpe-de-Glacio]

Her amazing neutral game.

Her DP into super or not mindgame.

Her range and pressure.

Evasive action past her dp; mindgame averted, initiate punishment. Punish her dp by catching her in the air with a fast normal before she lands; mindgame averted, intiate punishment. Block her pressure and seek holes. They do exist, you just have to block. Her neutral game is decent, not amazing. Lots of exploitable holes. Slide past her anti-zoning tools and punish if you have the frames or bait dp if you don't. Get in her face and utilize your normals, that's what they're there for. She can't do much to you when you're on top of her. Bait guard cancel, receive punish. She's not hard to deal with, she just takes practice and there's only a couple Mitsurus skilled enough to legitimately learn the match-up from.

Edited September 8, 2012 by Volpe-de-Glacio

[Tophatmoffet]

Its not whether she has weaknesses or not, its how easily those weaknesses are exposed as opposed to other characters.

I know about the roll bait.

As a character, she is just strong. All around.

She's not getting any worse either.

[Volpe-de-Glacio]

Its not whether she has weaknesses or not, its how easily those weaknesses are exposed as opposed to other characters.

I know about the roll bait.

As a character, she is just strong. All around.

She's not getting any worse either.

In the hands of a skilled player, every single character's weaknesses besides Yukiko and perhaps Naoto(depending on the MU) are difficult to expose. Every character in the game is strong. Yukiko just has a shitty Persona. Mitsuru isn't an all around character; she has strengths and she has weaknesses. The only real all around strong character would be Narukami. His dp mindgame outclasses hers because it's a legit anti-air and he can super cancel in the air. When it comes to Mitsuru, there are multiple answers to one of her most touted strengths.

Edited September 8, 2012 by Volpe-de-Glacio

[Boss]

Volpe. I like you. You know how to think for yourself.

[Volpe-de-Glacio]

Thanks, you seem to know your shit as well. I agree with most everything you've stated, and haven't done enough homework to disagree with any of it - I think Yosuke can get a bit more damage than everyone gives him credit for. I just don't know enough about him yet.

[Arson]

Volpe. I like you. You know how to think for yourself.

Psshhh.. Thinking for yourself? As if! I need tier lists and top players to tell me how and what to play, and give me my opinions.

As much as I like to tier whore, P4U really is pretty darned balanced and well made. All the bitching and theory fighter is fun but surely it gets old after a while. Never understood why people don't just try to figure stuff out rather than lash out about it.. If that doesn't work, switch characters. No shame in that, IMO. Better than losing constantly and having no fun. Gets you burned out, and pretty soon not only are you not winning, you're not growing, and pretty soon you've stopped playing ( in some cases ). You would think the way half of the people talk about their characters, they are having a gun held to their head, being forced to play the character. I personally think this game is going to change a ton with the tiers. There's plenty of characters with loads of undiscovered potential, though like Bishop said, I think Aigis is the best and will be hard to dislodge from that spot. Not only does she have near everything, she has incredible damage AND potential.. Not like Yu, who just has good everything, but is fairly straightforward and more discovered.

[Volpe-de-Glacio]

A lot of my knowledge actually comes from a few really good players that I face daily. It isn't just handed to me, though; I figure it out by asking questions, challenging logic I don't agree with, and most of all facing them in matches myself, as well as watching them fight each other. They've already come up with a more accurate tier list; there are just a few things to iron out, people to discuss it with, then it'll be solid. Aegis is definitely the best character in the game; she's got un-reactable mix-ups + damage. I don't see how that can even be disputed. Discussion never gets old to me because if someone proves me wrong I'll be that much more prepared for the next one. If they don't, hopefully they learned something from it.

Edited September 8, 2012 by Volpe-de-Glacio

[Milln]

Being at work and not able to participate in group discussions efficiently is balls.

Yosuke -can- do more damage than people give him credit for, because it doesn't show up in the combo counter icon. Aigis he ain't, but workin' on it.

[Volpe-de-Glacio]

That moment when you can't apply FULL SCREEN OKI to a Mitsuru because she has 100 heat. . . Nevermind what I said about useless ultimates, lol.

Mitsuru, Chie, Labrys, Narukami, and Yukiko can all do this full screen. Kanji can within a stricter range, Yosuke and Teddie have to be practically in your face. Akihiko's leads me to believe it can be done depending on range, but it's a bit slow to tell for sure. Naoto's is unreliable, Aegis' is aerial and therefore only the crappiest oki ever would be rejected. Elizabeth's just blows, fuck her mortal blow. But I'm thinking it's more of an issue of improperly locking my opponent down. I just could've sworn at the time that the laser was on her face before she'd even woken up, meaning she'd have to receive invincibility on frame 1. Not exactly sure how to go about testing this, though.

Edited September 8, 2012 by Volpe-de-Glacio

[Grimstar]

That's what I love about Yosuke though... he's not so much a combo character (unless you land dat fatal 2C), he's just straight mix-up. He gets his damage by being tricky. not by doing simple high damage shit. If you play Yosuke predictably you WILL lose. Hard.

[Tophatmoffet]

Every character in the game is strong. Mitsuru isn't an all around character; she has strengths and she has weaknesses. The only real all around strong character would be Narukami. When it comes to Mitsuru, there are multiple answers to one of her most touted strengths.

Maybe its just my lack of expeirience in the matchup. The only good mits I've ever fought is star, and at that only once. What is this weakness and how do I take advantage of it?

[Volpe-de-Glacio]

S rank at last. . . Off of an S rank Mitsuru to boot.

@Kain: I laid out the methods of getting through her pressure in my previous posts. Labrys has some pretty good normals, if I can do it as Mitsuru's best match-up, I've got faith that you can do the same.

She's typically going to charge coup droit whilst pouncing on you with her sliding sweep, sweep feints into throws, or sweep feints into instant overheads for dp baiting. They also like to sweep feint, jump over you, back air dash and overhead you. Try and block it, but don't sweat it if you can't; they can't really combo off of it. They'll also try and nail you with JC and JC cross-ups if they're especially tricky, but it takes a second to pull Artemisia out and if you can predict it a 2B will net you a nice punish. Not sure if Labrys' sweep counts as low profiling, but if it does you can use it to hit her -under- her 5A. Your job is to try and figure out which one she's going to do, and if they're even skilled enough to realize that's what they should be doing. If she's sitting there charging coup droit, you need to buff up your reaction times til you can dp the instant she releases. Be ready to punish whiffed tick throws, poorly spaced coup droits, and dp the fuck out of her if she does a slow 4/5/6B (They're all the same, just move her in different directions and different distances depending on how long it's held)

Her only safe coup droits are coup droit b fully charged and ex coup droit. Anything else is punishable whilst improperly spaced. I want to see you smashing their toes with 2A when this happens, I'm sure Labrys' is fast enough for the job. If not, you can throw her out of it on block. Remember to prioritize blocking low; you can see AoA's coming from a mile away and react accordingly, and they have a hard time comboing off of jb (I think it's that one, whichever aerial points down) unless they rapid cancel or wait until they're deep in your face to press it, in which case you should've already 2B'd by then. A large chunk of her damage comes from her sweep into coup droit. It's like 2.5k or so on its own, pushes you into the corner, and nets her oki.

If your 2A is fast enough, catch Mitsuru -in the air- after a dp - that way she can't even attempt to super cancel and you get a combo. Right after that 2A catch is the best time to bait bursts, that's when they're like OHFUCKI'MNOTSAFEOHGODBUTTONS. Then lay into her to your heart's content. Not too sure about Labrys's match-up specifically, but with her excellent normals you shouldn't really be having that much trouble getting in. Her JB is probably the most godlike normal in the game.

It's all about reading the Mitsuru you're fighting. There's really only one optimal approach for her (went over this with Star, Mitsuru really is that shallow Jackie), and if they don't know how then it should be a simple matter of punishing stupid mistakes, because they WILL make them. Be patient, buff up them block skills, and you'll start recognizing the holes in her pressure yourself. It's all in practice. GL.

edit: Added in a bit more stuff as I remembered it. If you ever need to get some more MU experience, hop on PSN and throw me or Star a message for an invite. We'll be happy to get you up to speed.

edit 2: Apparently all of this should be disregarded as it mostly pertains to the match-up with Liz, lols. I figured she'd have the same general pressure against everyone else. Star should be able to help you out a lot better.

Edited September 8, 2012 by Volpe-de-Glacio

[Tophatmoffet]

Dear dairy

It has been 3 weeks since I've had any practice against real people. I'm visibly improving and yet still not really.

Its rare for me to find a 3 bar connection.

I cannot connect to my homeland's players.

Its lonely out here in deep space.

[Jackie Chandler]

Apparently, Saya's Japanese VA announced in a recent Bururaji segment that Saya won't be a playable character in CP.

I mean, by extension, "Saya" has been playable like five times already. But I figured you guys might care.

[Volpe-de-Glacio]

I just want DLC Koromaru and/or Minato for P4U. . . Please. . . Arc System!

[Urichinan]

Apparently, Saya's Japanese VA announced in a recent Bururaji segment that Saya won't be a playable character in CP.

I mean, by extension, "Saya" has been playable like five times already. But I figured you guys might care.

Eh, I'm not a huge fan of Saya, so I don't really mind her not being playable yet. I do hope she ends up playable in the future though. I'm honestly still waiting for Kokonoe and Phantom. They're the only characters I've been wanting to play for years.

[Klein]

Dear dairy

I talk to cheese when I get lonely too.

[Alphakami]

Good shit to Star. Kanji v Mitsuru too much fun. Kanji vs the world is too much fun.

Good shit to Naimat in GG. You're getting it.

Good shit to Milln, just cause.

Good shit to Darkiemac. Can I call you that? lol

I can't remember exactly, but this month is my 20 year anniversary of building my first stick. 20 years ago I was playing Street Fighter II CE on the Genesis, learning how to cr.mk xx hadoken and st.hp xx srk.

[Milln]

Ggs to Naimat, needed the Akihiko experience. Started getting it at the end! Props for playing Order Sol. He's a baller.

Ggs to Doromac the meteor god.

Didn't play Star, was too busy eating pizza to make a headache go away. =\

Didn't play Tad, either but watching his I Don't Play This Game tech was awesome.

Ggs to Domino's having pizza clearance and getting into even the most secure facilities.

[LastStarSaviour]

Finally got a chance to get back on the forumes. Saw a lot of stuff that I missed, conversation-wise:

@Jackie: Nah, Mitsuru's playstyle is pretty much, play perfectly, or die. There is no real in-between for how to approach most of her match-ups

@Volpe: I agree with just about everything you said. However your advice on how to deal with Mitsuru as Labrys is a tad bit incorrect.

@Kain: I'll give you all the info you need to know on the match-up after doing some lab testing. I haven't gotten to fight any really strong Labrys' yet, but that match-up is really frustrating for me I can tell just from fighting a few net-play scrubs who just constantly mash j.B. I can tell you right now that that move makes or breaks the match-up altogether.

@Tad: Glad we could finally start our FT100.

@Naimat: Don't get discouraged about that match-up. It really isn't as bad as it seems. It's just going to require a bit of work (which you shouldn't not be used to since Akihiko is always working in his match-ups). we'll get in a nice set next time and we'll pick everything apart

@Milln: I'm hyped for the state crew battles. Definitely going to be the best event out of King of Bling.

Edited September 8, 2012 by LastStarSaviour

[Volpe-de-Glacio]

How are state crew battles gonna work? Sounds hype as fuuuck.

[Klein]

VOLPE YOU LIED TO ME, COUP A IS SAFE AND IT MAKES ME BLEED.

[Urichinan]

VOLPE YOU LIED TO ME, COUP A IS SAFE AND IT MAKES ME BLEED.

According to shtkn:

All Coup's are -4 at cose range

A Coup at the tip is -2

B Coup at the tip is +2

EX Coup at the tip is +1

[Volpe-de-Glacio]

VOLPE YOU LIED TO ME, COUP A IS SAFE AND IT MAKES ME BLEED.

Shh, shh. Just the tip, I promise. Just to see how it feels.