Shruikon Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 eeeeh, whats IAD? Instant Air Dash. I still haven't quite got the timing down for an IAD combo yet myself, but I can usually at least get the IAD >_>
dennch7 Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 oh, that. Just started reading dustloop recently and forgotten most of the terminology...if u can call it that. I dont really find it necessary. You only get about 3 or more hits out of IAD combo and minimal dmg. Good for putting them in the corner though..... And i cant really do it...they always tech before the 5B lands....
pktazn Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 Any extra damage is good really, no matter how minimal (unless it wastes meter, puts you in a bad position, etc.) and really it's not bad considering you actually do get decent damage while corner carrying. Being able to put someone in the corner easily is something not a lot of other characters can do. I've seen a many Tsubakis who can do the IAD combo, turn the match around in their favor because of it. If they're able to tech out before the 5B lands that means you're not delaying the j.CC after the IAD long enough. You have to delay the j.CC a bit after hitting them with the first hit in order to keep them stunned long enough for you to land the 5B. You also have to be at the right height when performing the IAD combo.
dennch7 Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 (edited) Any extra damage is good really, no matter how minimal (unless it wastes meter, puts you in a bad position, etc.) and really it's not bad considering you actually do get decent damage while corner carrying. Being able to put someone in the corner easily is something not a lot of other characters can do. I've seen a many Tsubakis who can do the IAD combo, turn the match around in their favor because of it. If they're able to tech out before the 5B lands that means you're not delaying the j.CC after the IAD long enough. You have to delay the j.CC a bit after hitting them with the first hit in order to keep them stunned long enough for you to land the 5B. You also have to be at the right height when performing the IAD combo. Hmmm, ofc, any dmg is good, its just that for the people that cant do the combo (like me), and whiffs at the 5B, it resets and actually puts you in a disadvantage with recovery. On the other hand, so many conditions....ill start practicing right now!! Iv actually tried delaying J.CC, but it just doesnt seem to work!! Could u try to explain exactly what "height" ur talking about? Edited July 18, 2011 by dennch7
zaeris Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 (edited) Hmmm, ofc, any dmg is good, its just that for the people that cant do the combo (like me), and whiffs at the 5B, it resets and actually puts you in a disadvantage with recovery. On the other hand, so many conditions....ill start practicing right now!! Iv actually tried delaying J.CC, but it just doesnt seem to work!! Could u try to explain exactly what "height" ur talking about? Height? only when you hit them too high and your IAD crosses yourself over but always keeping them as low to ground as possible while able to land IAD jcc combo means you will have an easier time connecting 5b but it doesn't matter really when different starter will make it easy or harder. For starters you can try IAD after a 214D, I would rate that as the easiest. IAD combo shines after a 5c/6c starter or 214d, 236d starter since it can be combine with 2cc 623c j236a (w) j214d follow by 5cc 2cc IAD combo. Hasn't been discussed yet; Honestly, not sure. I don't use j.236X outside of combos, but I feel like I probably should, because there are situations where it might be useful... I tend to use it to cross over and beat my opponents AA option e.g. 6a in most cases it will beat it clear. Which is more of a conditional so jc pressure can be more threatening. Other idea I have been playing with using j236c is to whiff cancel into j214d by making it an ambiguous reverse cross over. But its main purpose are reset although I’m not fond of tsubaki resets when you can get a kd with good spacing for charging 22d with any normal combo. Edited July 18, 2011 by zaeris
Airk Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 I'm right there with you Shruikon - I can _USUALLY_ get the IAD and the couple of times I've gotten to the 5B point, I have this "Holy ****! It hit! Uh...what do I do now?" <drops combo> reaction. Still practicing this. Alas, I don't really have the patience to sit down and fail a combo for 30+ minutes. =/ The extra damage from the IAD combo isn't really fierce, but the extra corner carry is pretty enormous - Tsubaki already has good corner carry from her super basic stuff with 236B>214B>22B on an airborne opponent, but that can be used IN ADDITION to the IAD to basically go corner to corner. And unless I'm crazy, you can use the DP-whiff combo part (Speaking of things I need to practice.) to ensure that you can do an IAD combo off nearly any hit (or does that prorate too much to work?) In terms of doing the IAD combo: you need to hit with 2CC at the "right" height - too low and you can't connect the IAD because they'll land first, too high and they'll be able to tech before the 5B. And yeah, the j.C>C needs to be delayed for...surprisingly long. (Has anyone tried using the "hold the button" method to input this? In the guide it says that if you hold the button when doing a followup, it will come out as late as possible).
Tsubaki 5B Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 I'm right there with you Shruikon - I can _USUALLY_ get the IAD and the couple of times I've gotten to the 5B point, I have this "Holy ****! It hit! Uh...what do I do now?" <drops combo> reaction. Still practicing this. Alas, I don't really have the patience to sit down and fail a combo for 30+ minutes. =/ The extra damage from the IAD combo isn't really fierce, but the extra corner carry is pretty enormous - Tsubaki already has good corner carry from her super basic stuff with 236B>214B>22B on an airborne opponent, but that can be used IN ADDITION to the IAD to basically go corner to corner. And unless I'm crazy, you can use the DP-whiff combo part (Speaking of things I need to practice.) to ensure that you can do an IAD combo off nearly any hit (or does that prorate too much to work?) In terms of doing the IAD combo: you need to hit with 2CC at the "right" height - too low and you can't connect the IAD because they'll land first, too high and they'll be able to tech before the 5B. And yeah, the j.C>C needs to be delayed for...surprisingly long. (Has anyone tried using the "hold the button" method to input this? In the guide it says that if you hold the button when doing a followup, it will come out as late as possible). hold method wats that? and plus you should use the DP whiff to get the maximum for damage on combos tho online it will be difficult to do but the damage is worth it and it brings them to the corner allowing for more opportunities
Errol Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 TBH, IAD combo is the single most important thing to learn for Tsubaki. Extra damage / *OKI* off it is actually enormous. Hits from 214D, air hits from 236D, 2c, etc are much worse without it. DP whiff on the other hand gets you much less mileage in general, and is quite a bit harder to do so you'll drop it much easier (you can't do an IAD follow up after it btw). Have not tried the hold the button technique for IAD combos (didn't know about it).. might work well? I'll try it..
Airk Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 hold method wats that? a) Normals and command normals. In this section, there will be a list and description of all of Tsubaki’s normals. “A button” normals do not have follow-ups. Followups can be done by pressing the button again or holding it. Pressing the button again leads to immediate startup, holding it delays the move to the maximum time possible. Note: I have not verified this personally. :P That said, the input for this would be: IAD>C>C[hold]
Manta Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 Note: I have not verified this personally. :P That said, the input for this would be: IAD>C>C[hold] Would a simpler way just to be use the square bracket notation for holding? i.e. IAD>j.[C]
Airk Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 Would a simpler way just to be use the square bracket notation for holding? i.e. IAD>j.[C] Could be; Honestly, I don't know if you hold the first button press, or do the second press and hold that. For some reason, I had it in my head that it was the latter, but the former would make a lot more sense, in which case, yeah, your notation would be right.
BatousaiJ Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 TBH, IAD combo is the single most important thing to learn for Tsubaki. Extra damage / *OKI* off it is actually enormous. Hits from 214D, air hits from 236D, 2c, etc are much worse without it. DP whiff on the other hand gets you much less mileage in general, and is quite a bit harder to do so you'll drop it much easier (you can't do an IAD follow up after it btw). Have not tried the hold the button technique for IAD combos (didn't know about it).. might work well? I'll try it.. DP whiff adds first and foremost a corner carrying, knockdown, untechable time you can use to charge to your arsenal off basically any starter. I wouldn't say you get less mileage out of that really. It's a discouragingly difficult due to you having to compensate for all sorts of different factors like, spacing, character specific hit box, starter option and etc even if you don't count lag into the mix and that's why you even see great JPN Tsubaki players miss it from time to time. Either way, both IAD and DP whiff and both essential part of Tsubaki's game and I'd recommend everyone who wants to use her near to her potential add both weapons to their arsenal as soon as they can. As far as holding C for j.C[C], I don't use it and don't know how it works entirely. I certainly don't see the need for it though, the regular timing way is just fine.
Airk Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 As far as holding C for j.C[C], I don't use it and don't know how it works entirely. I certainly don't see the need for it though, the regular timing way is just fine. Well, if it prevents you from having to learn how long to delay the 2nd C, I don't see how that's not valuable. -_-
BatousaiJ Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 Oh you kids and your shortcuts. But still, I always say do it the way that it works for you so go wild~
Errol Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 DP whiff adds first and foremost a corner carrying, knockdown, untechable time you can use to charge to your arsenal off basically any starter. I wouldn't say you get less mileage out of that really. It's a discouragingly difficult due to you having to compensate for all sorts of different factors like, spacing, character specific hit box, starter option and etc even if you don't count lag into the mix and that's why you even see great JPN Tsubaki players miss it from time to time. Either way, both IAD and DP whiff and both essential part of Tsubaki's game and I'd recommend everyone who wants to use her near to her potential add both weapons to their arsenal as soon as they can. As far as holding C for j.C[C], I don't use it and don't know how it works entirely. I certainly don't see the need for it though, the regular timing way is just fine. Yeah dp whiff is definitely good. Would love to be able to get it consistently. But yeah, you see lots of drops from great japanese players, or, them just opting not to do it because of that. I think it's a mid-screen only option really, because there are good alternatives in the corner that do nearly as much damage. But it is great off a midscreen 5/2A, 5B, standing 236D hit... Although to be quite clear, what I am thinking of when I talk about the dp whiff combo is really the 2cc followup. That 2cc is a bitch.. You don't think the IAD combo is more important?
Shruikon Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 Note: I have not verified this personally. :P That said, the input for this would be: IAD>C>C[hold] I imagine it would be IAD > j.[C] as Manta said yeah. Eitherway though, I hopped on the PSP vers quickly to try and test it out 'cause I couldn't be bothered to boot up my PS3 and I didn't even get a followup for any of our normals by just holding down the button. Even for 5BB or 5CC, the followup just didn't come out at all. So I'm gonna hazard a guess that holding the button for followups doesn't work on the PSP, for some reason.
Airk Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 Well, honestly, it might not work anywhere; I've not tried it myself, and I've no idea where that info came from. Ginseng?
BatousaiJ Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 Yeah dp whiff is definitely good. Would love to be able to get it consistently. But yeah, you see lots of drops from great japanese players, or, them just opting not to do it because of that. I think it's a mid-screen only option really, because there are good alternatives in the corner that do nearly as much damage. But it is great off a midscreen 5/2A, 5B, standing 236D hit... Although to be quite clear, what I am thinking of when I talk about the dp whiff combo is really the 2cc followup. That 2cc is a bitch.. You don't think the IAD combo is more important? Humm... difficult to say because on one had we have the most important no charge BnB combo with the DP whiff 2CC follow up and the IAD which useful in many situations but they're generally off of things like CH(2C, 22A/B/C etc) and charge use combos. They're both equally important in my book but given the difficult and consistency at which you can learn the combos, I'd recommend beginner to mid-level Tsu players to learn the IAD combo first and get that super consistent before they really goto town on the DP whiff variation. However, it's worth nothing as you said that the 2CC link is where it's hard but things like 5BB > 5CC > 623C > j.214A > dash 2C > jc > j.C > j.CC > j.236A > j.214C is pretty easy and a decent amount of damage for no charge. Eitherway though, I hopped on the PSP vers quickly to try and test it out 'cause I couldn't be bothered to boot up my PS3 and I didn't even get a followup for any of our normals by just holding down the button. Even for 5BB or 5CC, the followup just didn't come out at all. So I'm gonna hazard a guess that holding the button for followups doesn't work on the PSP, for some reason. Having extensive time played on both the PSP and the PS3 version, there are definite timing differences between the two versions so that might have something to do with what may or may not work on it but either way, I suggest people not practice their timing on the PSP version as it will be off on the PS3 version albeit slightly but enough to make you drop stuff.
TD Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 how much damage can tsubaki get in the corner from a 6a and say 1-2 charges?
Fallacy Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 how much damage can tsubaki get in the corner from a 6a and say 1-2 charges? With the combos that I personally do it would be 3.4 with 2 charges and 2.8 with 1 charge. Although I may go for 2.4 instead of 2.8 since i get better mixup.
Airk Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 how much damage can tsubaki get in the corner from a 6a and say 1-2 charges? 4883. :P 4043 with no super.
Airk Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 (edited) That's three charges, Airk. It's NET two charges. I guess it depends on how you define it. If you earn 50 heat during a combo and then use 50 heat at the end, is it really a 50 heat combo? You tell me. But theoretically, with two charges stocked, you could do that combo. Edit: But apparently I'm wrong anyway, because there's a pure 2 charge combo in the latest combo vid Pktazn posted that's like 4.3k with no super. :P Yeah yeah, fine, combo movie stuff. Was the question what's the most PRACTICAL damage Tsubaki can get in the corner? Erm, actually, now that I think about it, you can get 4k in a practical combo (heck, even _I_ can get this one) - the catch is that it's a 22D opener. 22D > 6CC > jc > j.C > jc > j.CC > j.214D > 5C whiff > 5CC > 236B > 214B > 22B just barely breaks 4k and that's probably not even the optimal version of that combo. Edited July 18, 2011 by Airk
BatousaiJ Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 22D starter in the corner is a large can of whoop ass. You should be doing at least 4.7k meterless with 2 charges and with 3, about 5k-5.2k ish. He was asking for a 6A stater and it doesn't prorate that well so about 4k ish is the ball park for 2 charge 6A starter combo in the corner meterless without going into super fancy combo vid character specific stuff.
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