[CSE-CP] Tsubaki Yayoi Simple Questions and Answers thread! Version 3!

[TheGreatReptar]

On my experience, inputing 623c214a on 1 swift motion should do the trick

I find that when I try it in one motion, I input the 214A before the 623C even comes out.

[Kiba]

Cool stuff dude. You can use an IAD combo from the following main starters:

22D - 2B/5C - 2CC - IAD (In the corner)

22D - 6CC - 623C - J236A (w) - J214D - 5C(w)C - 2CC - IAD (in the corner)

22D - 236D - dash 2CC - IAD (midscreen)

236D hitting an air opponent - 2CC - IAD

2CC AA - IAD

22X CH - 5B -2CC - IAD

5B - 2C - 214D - 2CC - IAD

3CC - RC - 2CC - IAD

Oh, and cheers for the IAD info Kiba. Exactly what I wanted.

Sorry, I forgot to add:

623D - J236D - J214D - 2CC -IAD.

[Kivorav]

Okay, well I got working with the 623C->j.214A technique, almost consistantly though I have problems dashing in for 2CC because either I whiff (midscreen), or the opponent recovers before then. I'm guessing it's the hitstun deteriation, but I've been using 5BB->5CC for the startup.

[Errol]

Just need to hit the timing better.

[luher0]

Okay, the way I'm looking at it is: 5BB->5CC->623C->j.236D->j.214C->6CC->j.C->j.CC->j.236A->j.214C.

By further details looking into it, j.236D causes the opponent to go down to the ground which causes 214C to whiff as a way to get down to the ground faster. Since 6C lets Tsubaki step forward so a dash isn't necessary.

Tks.

[Kivorav]

No problem luher.

Just need to hit the timing better.

The timing for what? 623C->j.214A? The dash into 2CC? I doubt this matters but I'll say it anyways, I have only been trying to do this on CPU and haven't played on netplay so if that does make any differences, then I guess that makes more sense.

[Airk]

Most likely the former; If you don't do the j.214A fast enough, you won't be on the ground in time to dash forwards and hit them. If you watch videos of people doing that combo, Tsubaki barely seems to leave the ground at all. Then of course, you need to get the dash in quick, and hit them with 2C at pretty much the top edge of its hitbox, or they tech. There are several things that are tricky about that combo.

[Kivorav]

Yeah, things got funky for me. I can't do it currently midscreen and corner it's like 50/50 chance of being able to. It will probably help me alot if I get someone to play with me and help me with this. So if you're willing to help out, send me a PM and we can arrange something. Do note that I'm an XBL player only, sorry PSN players.

[excelence]

I find that when I try it in one motion, I input the 214A before the 623C even comes out.

That's weird, have u check your button input? or maybe try to slow down a little

[Fallacy]

I find that when I try it in one motion, I input the 214A before the 623C even comes out.

Yeah I do that sometimes when I'm warming up just have to slow it down a little bit then its all good.

[LunarSelenia]

Okay, well I got working with the 623C->j.214A technique, almost consistantly though I have problems dashing in for 2CC because either I whiff (midscreen), or the opponent recovers before then. I'm guessing it's the hitstun deteriation, but I've been using 5BB->5CC for the startup.

I have the same problems too, the dash doesn't come out at all, or they recover if I do the dash.

@Errol: I know you posted an answer of "need to hit the timing better", but anything else as far as where that timing is to dash? I try inputting it really fast after the 214A but end up going nowhere and doing 2CC, or if I wait a bit and buffer the dash they tech. I got it ONCE out of like the 20 times I tried last night. If anyone can elaborate this more, I'd appreciate it, just for now I'll probably just keep on doing 5BB > 5CC > 623C > j.214A(w) > dash 2CC repeatedly until I get it >.<

[HajinShinobi]

I have the same problems too, the dash doesn't come out at all, or they recover if I do the dash.

@Errol: I know you posted an answer of "need to hit the timing better", but anything else as far as where that timing is to dash? I try inputting it really fast after the 214A but end up going nowhere and doing 2CC, or if I wait a bit and buffer the dash they tech. I got it ONCE out of like the 20 times I tried last night. If anyone can elaborate this more, I'd appreciate it, just for now I'll probably just keep on doing 5BB > 5CC > 623C > j.214A(w) > dash 2CC repeatedly until I get it >.<

Well, assuming you have the 623C > j.214A(w) part down, you basically have to input the dash the moment Tsubaki lands on the ground. You would then dash in and hit confirm 2CC, but the character themselves need to be at a certain height for 2CC to hit successfully. Otherwise they will either air tech too early or air tech late. Like Errol basically said before, it's all about that timing. And the timing is abit different on other characters as well. So say if you got the timing down on Ragna, the timing on someone else like Bang or Carl will be abit different.

Are you practicing the combo on Ragna by the way?

Edited September 15, 2011 by HajinShinobi

[Airk]

I have no advice except the good old fashioned combo-training adage:

If it didn't come out, you did it too fast.

If it came out but didn't combo, you did it too slow.

[pktazn]

Yea in Ginseng's FAQ he says that you may be inputting the dash 22C too late if the 2C isn't even hitting, if you've gotten the DP whiff part down. It would probably be best to practice on someone with a bigger hitbox as well depending on who you're practicing it on.

[LunarSelenia]

No, I almost rarely/never use Ragna as my training dummy.

I usually default to Jin if I'm lazy and don't have much time, but I switch it to Tao, Bang and Mu off and on, probably the only other characters I play against (other than lol Tager)

Just thought I'd ask still though and get some tips, otherwise I was just going to just mess around in training mode endlessly hoping it just comes to me like the IAD combos did XD

EDIT: Thanks to the others who posted, I kinda figured that was the case >.<;;; thought it wouldn't hurt to ask since I was working on it for awhile last night before I crashed.

[Fallacy]

Yeah keep doing it the timing on the dash is the hard part. You have to buffer the dash and the 2cc right after the j214a. Keep practicing and you'll get it.

[OrionXElite]

So I've hit a snag in my random combo practice. I've gotten a lot of the harder stuff down, 623C>214X(whiff)>Dash 2C and 2CC>IAD j.CC>Land 5B>2CC etc etc But my problem has occurred in midscreen throw follow ups. I know if I have no charge, I should just 2D and build massive meter but I'm wondering what I can actually do to optimize Damage/Meter gain off of it assuming I have charge to use. On some characters, I've been doing Throw>236D>Dash 2CC>236B>214B>22C But on some characters the 2C so I was kinda wondering if there is a general go to combo to use assuming I have the 1 Charge to do 236D? Cause I know its possible to do Dash 5B>2CC into whatever but I can't seem to get it very consistent due to height and spacing issues. I've been wussing out and spending 2 Charge and doing Throw>236D>214D>2CC>236B>214B>22C which I assume isn't all that great of use for Charge to just get 2.3K and something like 25 meter:v:

Also I wouldn't mind some general tips on spending Charge :3 I already know about derping it out with 236D whenever you want and I tend to use it for mixup/resets than for damage and Meter gain like I know it can be used for. So I would usually go from any random hit into 5CC(>6BB)>236D>Dash 5A/5B and then go into either 6A or 6B or Throw from there and get whatever I can. Is that an effective use for Charge honestly or am I just being a scrub?? :3

I'm giving my Thanks in advance for putting up with my long and arduous questions <3

[Eshi]

Cause I know its possible to do Dash 5B>2CC into whatever but I can't seem to get it very consistent due to height and spacing issues.

You're not dashing long enough. You have to dash for pretty long to make sure that Tsubaki both gets close enough and that they fall low enough for 5B > 2CC to connect. Honestly if you can't get it right then just do 5B > 2C > magic series, it's more lenient and doesn't lose much damage because her grab sucks.

Also I wouldn't mind some general tips on spending Charge :3 I already know about derping it out with 236D whenever you want and I tend to use it for mixup/resets than for damage and Meter gain like I know it can be used for. So I would usually go from any random hit into 5CC(>6BB)>236D>Dash 5A/5B and then go into either 6A or 6B or Throw from there and get whatever I can. Is that an effective use for Charge honestly or am I just being a scrub?? :3

Well it's a mix-up, if it's working then it's working, the main problem I see is that 6BB gives no reward without corner/charge. I tend to save my charges for unblockable mix-ups because there's so many ways to work it in. Either corner 22C > OTG 6A (gimmicky), or corner 22C > brief 5D > 22D (works more often on experienced players), or dropping a midscreen ground combo into 22D (if they're sleeping), or dropping an air juggle ala 236B > 214B > pause > 22D full charge (REALLY GOOD). With 2 charges, 236D > 214D will catch inexperienced off-guard since they don't know 236D forces them out of the corner. 236C whiff > 214D is a great way to cover a fuckton of space and catch people with their pants down. Otherwise, I save charges for increased damage.

[Kiba]

So I was kinda wondering if there is a general go to combo to use assuming I have the 1 Charge to do 236D? Cause I know its possible to do Dash 5B>2CC into whatever but I can't seem to get it very consistent due to height and spacing issues. I've been wussing out and spending 2 Charge and doing Throw>236D>214D>2CC>236B>214B>22C which I assume isn't all that great of use for Charge to just get 2.3K and something like 25 meter:v:

From a midscreen throw, it's 236D - Dash 5B/5C - 2CC - 236B - 214B - 22B/C. If you manage to get the opponent into the corner with the 5B/5C - 2CC, you can do 5B/5C - 2CC -22C - 5C - 2C - 236B - 214B - 22B. It's the only combo you can do that's conservative with the charge, and doing anything else would be a waste of stock.

If you manage to get an aerial throw midscreen, you can do either:

Air throw - 6C - 214D (Or 6CC - 214D early input) - 5C - 2CC - 236B - 214B -22B/C

With no stock:

Air throw - air dash JCC(Delay) 5B - 2CC - 236B - 214B - 22B/C

Air throw - 2B/5C - 2CC - 236B - 214B - 22B

Are you alright with corner throw combos?

Also I wouldn't mind some general tips on spending Charge :3 I already know about derping it out with 236D whenever you want and I tend to use it for mixup/resets than for damage and Meter gain like I know it can be used for. So I would usually go from any random hit into 5CC(>6BB)>236D>Dash 5A/5B and then go into either 6A or 6B or Throw from there and get whatever I can. Is that an effective use for Charge honestly or am I just being a scrub?? :3

I'm giving my Thanks in advance for putting up with my long and arduous questions <3

You can use unblockable resets when you have your opponent in the corner. You could do it midscreen too but the corner is almost a no way out for the opponent. You have much better oki options with it, and it'll usually catch opponent's backdash. With proper spacing, and a timed unblockable, they will still get caught regardless of how they tech/roll (unless they delay it/tech early. Depends when/how you used the unblockable).

Using 236D is fine, but if your opponent IB's it, they can easily 2A/5A you out of any pressure you attempt to do. Following up with 214D/22D would stop them from doing that though.

Remember that 214D has head/body invincibility too from 10 - 24f. An example of using this would be using 236C to get in, but it whiffs, then you use 214D followup to catch opponents that try to punish you, like Eshi pointed out. You could also do it if they block 236C too. Remember 214D loses to lows though. 214D starter is always a perfect way to get great damage even midscreen.

When you're going for the resets with 6B/6A/throw, like Eshi mentioned, try not to use 6B, it won't be very much beneficial to you unless you have the opponent in the corner and more stock where you can use DP - Whiff combos to amplify damage. I think it's a good way to spend charge, but when your opponent learns to react to the mixup (all of those options can be outpoked) you can start going into stuff such as stuff - 236D - Unblockable reset or even stuff - 236D - slight delay 6A.

Another way to seriously burn stock/heat (and also might be seen as a waste of time to some but it works) is use J236D - J214D followup - RC - unblockable. It always works unless the player CAs or bursts. It's usually better to use this on the much better players though.

Furthermore, you could use 214D - 22D(slight delay, and not the unblockable). It works against mashers but players can DP out of it (Tager can also 360/720 you).

I hope I helped, even if it was a little.

Edited September 20, 2011 by Kiba

[BatousaiJ]

A lot of new Tsubaki users fall in love with the 214D and start throwing it out too much and while its rewards are great if it hits, it's not something you can use on reaction in most scenario to get something going and ends up being a risky move to throw out there given it's - on block.

I would recommend the use of 214D as mentioned before as cancels to punish mashing or in specific match ups where you see an opportunity.

For example, Mu with her insane reach on the normals like 5C/6C/j.2C or if a Jin player is being frisky with 236C ice sword and dashing towards you after it with a 5C/j.C or if that Lambchops has you in the corner with a spike chaser queued up. 214D will go right through all of them given you timed them right you can even quickly dash and change the side you want to continue the combo to which will most often then not get them to the corner.

There are a ton of situations where knowing the match up and anticipating what your opponents will most likely do will make 214D a very deadly tool in our arsenal. Just don't throw it out there randomly and cross your fingers.

[pktazn]

If you manage to get the opponent into the corner with the 5B/5C - 2CC, you can do 5B/5C - 2CC - 2CC - 5C - 2C - 236B - 214B - 22B.

Is that supposed to be 22C?

[HajinShinobi]

I think it is lol, I noticed that too.

[Kiba]

Apologies. Yes.

It's been corrected.

Edited September 20, 2011 by Kiba

[OrionXElite]

Are you alright with corner throw combos?

Uhhhh...Throw>214D>2CC>236C>5B>2C>j.C>dj.CC>j.236A>j.214C??? I just kinda tried it out and thought it up in like 5 minutes. I used to just do Throw>6C>j.C>dj.CC>Ender cause for some reason I jump for joy at the chance to use 6C -____-

As for Charge use, I'll definitely keep in mind the use of 214Ds head/body invul for dealing with normals like Mu's. I was having a hard time figuring out how I would deal with anyone with any type of superior range like Ragna or Mu. As it is now, my footsie game with the better characters has just involved doing an OS off of 5B that if it hit or gets blocked, 236D comes out so I have an in and an advantage which was doing me a lot of good, but I tended to blow all of my Charge on it. I'll also try more 22D shenanigans as I've hardly done anything with which is probably a bad thing as its one of her best reset tools if you utilize it right.

Oh random question, is it safe to do wakeup 623D if I have the Charge to go into j.236D after?? Or is there still a potential to be punished for it??

PS: Thanks for the guys

[HajinShinobi]

@OrionXElite: Some good corner throw combos you might want to use instead of one's ending with Tsu's air combos.

Throw > Dash > 2B 2CC > 22C > 5C 2C > 236B 214B 22B. (No charge required)

Throw > 6C > 22D > Charge > 2B 2CC > 22C > 5C 2C > 236B 214B 22B (requires one charge)

Throw > 6CC > 623C j.236A(w) j.214D > 5C(w)C 2CC > 22C > 5C 2C > 236B 214B 22B. (requires one charge)

I think I labeled those right? lol

But yeah, it keeps opponents in the corner and you can stay in their face, whereas doing the air combos you cant and lose all your corner pressure.