HexaNoid Posted May 18, 2011 Posted May 18, 2011 (edited) I'd just like to say that the number of reps shown isn't the maximum amount possible but a 'safe' number to do. It may or may not be possible to do more reps on some of these characters, but I found I was quite comfortable doing whatever number I've stated here. The starter I used for this test was: 3C > 22BBBBC~66 > 6C > Haida. Haida Loop Showcase Video Japanese Haida List (Easy) Line 1 : Tager Valkenhayn Hakumen Rachel Line 2 : Ragna Mu Taokaka Carl Line 3 : Jin Makoto Arakune Hazama Line 4 : Tsubaki Bang Litchi Line 5 : Platinum Lambda Noel (Hard) Ragna – 9 reps Simple enough. Make sure you do a 6C instead of 66C after the 2nd rep to give you enough spacing to carry on the haida. Otherwise you may be too close to him and drop the haida. Jin – 5 reps Relatively easy, but you’ll have to make sure you do a 6A > 6C after the 2nd rep or it’s almost impossible to continue. Doing a 66A after every two reps makes it much easier on Jin too. It’s possible to get more reps after the 1st 6A without using another one, but it’s more difficult. Noel – 3 reps Imposssible to do 22B > 66C on her, but 66A > 6C > 22B haidas work fine. Noel has quite a small hitbox so you’ll have to be careful on the timing however. Taokaka – 7 reps Really easy. Her hitbox is a lot bigger than it seems so you should have no problem nailing the haida here. As always, make sure you correct your spacing with 6C where necessary. Litchi – 3 reps Tricky as you’ll need to do a 6A > 6C extension for every rep. It’s possible to do a straight 22B > 66C on Litchi, but her hitbox makes it really awkward and more often than not it’ll drop. Tager – 11 reps Lol Tager. If you can’t do the haida properly on anyone else, here’s a good place to practice. Tager is probably the easiest character to haida and you shouldn’t think twice about using your haida on him. 6C spacing works fine where necessary and [6C > 22B] x3 in the corner works too. Lambda – 1 rep Near impossible. I would go as far as saying never try and haida Lambda, but if you ever do the 66A > 6C > 236A > 66C > ender route is the way to go. It's possible to haida her using the Luna Loop (22B > 22B > 662B) 3 times off of 3C, but the repeated use of 2B in the combo kills the damage. Hazama – 5 reps Similar to Jin, you’ll want to do 66A > 6C > 22B after the 2nd rep to keep it going. Tsubaki – 5 reps Tsubaki has a strange hitbox for haidas; it's possible to do 66C > 22B on her, but you have to be pretty far away from her to get the 22Bs to connect. After the third rep of 66C > 22B, you'll have to do a 66A > 6C to extend it while adjusting the timing of the next 22B accordingly as she may be a little too high for it to connect if you do it immediately after. Hakumen – 8 reps Another easy character to haida. 6C spacing works fine here too. When trying to catch him after a Silencer Dash Cancel, remember to use 4 Bs instead of 5 as 5 Bs tends to push him to far away to be caught with 6C after the DC. Bang – 3 reps [22B > 66A > 6C] xN works fine and isn’t too difficult to pull off on Bang. 22B > 66C haida does work on him but the timing/spacing can be awkward at times; you have to delay the 22B by quite a lot to get it to connect. If you do try the regular haida, 66A after every 2 reps is recommended. Arakune – 5 reps His hitbox makes it a little difficult to space yourself, but it’s actually fairly large so getting the loop down on him shouldn’t be too tricky. 6C spacing doesn’t seem to work here, but after the 3rd rep it’s possible to extend the haida with a 66A > 6C. Carl – 1 rep His hitbox is a tiny bit bigger than it looks, but it’s still kind of difficult to haida him. 22B > 66C and 22B > 66A > 6C both work, but it’s hard to get multiple reps on him. 6C > 236A > 6C > ender is a more stable option. The Luna Loop is also another alternative to use. Rachel – 10 reps Actually has her own specific haida – 22B > 22B > 66C. Large hitbox makes it easy to haida her. 22B > 22B > 6C works in the corner. 6C spacing works too but isn’t really necessary. Mu – 9 reps Similar hitbox to Ragna. You'll need to adjust the spacing with 6C > 22B after about the 2nd or 3rd rep, but it's possible to haida her without the use of 6A. Makoto – 7 reps Similar to Ragna. 6C spacing is needed to keep the haida going as you’ll be too close after about the 3rd rep to continue. Also, 6C > throw whiff > 6C seems to be the easiest (if not the only) way to get the haida started without it dropping due to Makoto’s height/hitbox. Valkenhayn – 11 reps Almost Tager-easy. 6C spacing is easy to pull off here and you have a ton of time to do 66C even if you thought you were too far away to pick it up. Like Tager, you want to be using your haida on Valk whenever the opportunity arises. Platinum – 3 reps Small-ish hitbox makes haida quite difficult beyond 3 reps. 66A > 6C > 22B needed to extend after the 2nd rep. Edited September 24, 2011 by HexaNoid
dsmoove12 Posted May 18, 2011 Posted May 18, 2011 Nice Guide Hex, this will help me out a bunch. Thanks
Bolverk-GTM Posted May 18, 2011 Posted May 18, 2011 Well so much for raging in training mode trying to figure out how the fuck Noel's hitbox works. Many thanks Hexy, you've done it again.
Raptor Posted May 19, 2011 Posted May 19, 2011 Was wondering why regular Haida wasnt working on Bang. Going to memorize all this.
LunaKage Posted May 19, 2011 Posted May 19, 2011 I have done the regular haida on Bang. You're slipping Hex, HOW DO I KNOW THE REST OF THE GUIDE IS LEGIT??? 8|
HexaNoid Posted May 19, 2011 Author Posted May 19, 2011 EXPOSED. D: Updated the Bang section. Sorry for letting you down, people. orz The rest of the guide is legit though, I swear.. ;s;
Rylentless Posted May 21, 2011 Posted May 21, 2011 Im trying to get good with noel, i've always been a big fan of guys like R-1 and now with CSII I decided to get serious with her. My problem stems from challenge mode: In challenge 8, you have to preform " 214A 2B 6C 22B 22BC" during it and no matter how i try, the first 22B always whiffs bang because he bounces too high or techs too quickly. Is this just a matter of speed or is there a specific timing too it? I tried to immitate the sample play but i still cant do it somehow. I'd appriciate any help guys.
SkyKing Posted May 21, 2011 Posted May 21, 2011 Im trying to get good with noel, i've always been a big fan of guys like R-1 and now with CSII I decided to get serious with her. My problem stems from challenge mode: In challenge 8, you have to preform " 214A 2B 6C 22B 22BC" during it and no matter how i try, the first 22B always whiffs bang because he bounces too high or techs too quickly. Is this just a matter of speed or is there a specific timing too it? I tried to immitate the sample play but i still cant do it somehow. I'd appriciate any help guys. Yeah, you can actually delay the 22B so that it will catch. You might get him teching out before you catch it, but that's generally the right time to connect the Haida after the Muzzle Flitter > 2B > 6C. One way I like to think of it is that you allow Noel's guns to twirl a little before doing the 22B. I think normally you want to input in as soon as you connect the 6C, and you won't see any animation from the guns when you do this. Just delay it a bit and that should give you some results.
LunaKage Posted May 22, 2011 Posted May 22, 2011 That post came SO CLOSE to making me pull a Circ, but then I decided to dig deeper and realized since he was having problems with the Silencer part of the combo, it qualified as a haida problem. :3
Arcknight Posted May 23, 2011 Posted May 23, 2011 I have a couple of questions about this. First, how the heck do you know when to put in 6A? Second, how do you know when it is best to do a BC whiff? Last, are all of those small steps forward into 6C small dash cancels or are they regular? I only ask because I am having massive problems with this and to ME it seems like it's CT difficult (IE completely never going to happen for me). Which is pretty ironic seeing as how some people pointed out the fact that this is the easiest variant so far. Don't you love irony too? If someone could shine some light on that I would be very appreciative. I'll continue to practice. Maybe something will "click" one day.
HexaNoid Posted May 23, 2011 Author Posted May 23, 2011 1. It's a spacing/distance thing. It should only be used on certain characters anyway, so you shouldn't have too much of a problem with this; you'll just know when once you get the loop down. 2. If your opponent is too high, use the whiff. Again, you'll just get a feeling when to use it as you practice getting 6C > 22B down enough, so just work on using against different characters and feel it out. Note: I'd say it's only really necessary against Makoto. 3. They are regular dash cancels. It may seem to you that this is really difficult right now, but trust me you'll be having a much easier time with this than the CT haida. Also, where exactly are you dropping the loop and who are you practicing it on? I can give you more specific advice on how to do it if you tell me that.
Arcknight Posted May 23, 2011 Posted May 23, 2011 (edited) Also, where exactly are you dropping the loop and who are you practicing it on? I can give you more specific advice on how to do it if you tell me that. When I get some more time to practice it I'll let you know exactly what the problem is. It's probably mostly a timing thing. I don't think it's so much a spacing issue but I'll check it out and get back to you. Thanks! Edit: After a few minutes of practice and a fresh perspective I am doing much better at the follow ups than before. My main problem that I'll have to work on is the set up. I've never been good at doing 22BBBBBC or whatever and that dash cancel link doesn't always end up with a 6C at the end of it! Also getting a lot of random 6Bs in it too but that's probably from being unfamiliar with these newer inputs. Edited May 23, 2011 by Arcknight
LiveWireX Posted May 24, 2011 Posted May 24, 2011 I'm so wishing I checked this guide out right when CS2 came out instead of going all "oh, I know how to Haida, I've been at it since CT" and then wondering why I couldn't.
Chrome Hana Posted May 24, 2011 Posted May 24, 2011 In the BBCS2 Haida Loop Tutorial video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2akL1jhRrM), there is a list at the 5:10 mark that organizes the list of cast in the following order: (Short) Line 1 : Tager Valkenhayn Hakumen Rachel Line 2 : Ragna Mu Taokaka Carl Line 3 : Jin Makoto Arakune Hazama Line 4 : Tsubaki Bang Litchi Line 5 : Platinum Lambda Noel (Tall) The kanji to the left of line one and five I put in parenthesis, and from my knowledge they correspond to height. That being said, I’m not sure if the list only takes into consideration the height requirement necessary to haida the characters (sorry, my Japanese is very limited). Not surprisingly, many of the trends you have found correspond to the order of the list, with the upper characters being relatively easier to haida than the lower. I also noticed some patterns in the list that might make it easier to remember how to haida them: Line 1 is easy. Line 3 require at least one 6A. Line 4, 6A works the best in every rep, etc. This obviously doesn’t hold true in every case, but it does help me remember what to do when I practice. Additionally, at the 3:30 mark, there is a statement about Noel and Lambda. It talks about something along the lines of 22B > 6C not working on them (I can’t translate that kanji…). You already discovered that, but when I first saw it (and this guide wasn‘t made), it made a lot of sense because I was trying to haida Noel for the longest time. I’ll try to see if there is more in the video I can understand.
HexaNoid Posted May 24, 2011 Author Posted May 24, 2011 Thanks a lot for the help on translating, Hana. Any extra information you can gather for us will be greatly appreciated.
Arcknight Posted May 24, 2011 Posted May 24, 2011 Does anyone else find it ironic that Bang went from VERY easy to loop to pretty hard (by that charts comparison)?
LiveWireX Posted May 24, 2011 Posted May 24, 2011 Yeah, I found that weird too. It's also kinda amusing when you consider his tier change too.
currentlemon Posted May 24, 2011 Posted May 24, 2011 Thank you for posting this. I'm relearning Noel and I was looking information on the Haida loop.
SolarMisae Posted June 22, 2011 Posted June 22, 2011 (edited) Having trouble getting that 3rd rep on Jin. I just can't make that 66A > 6C connect right. Should I be delaying the 6A...or doing the 6C faster? Absolute Noel newb here by the way. >.<; Edited June 22, 2011 by SolarMisae
HexaNoid Posted June 22, 2011 Author Posted June 22, 2011 If it's not connecting you probably just have to dash in a little deeper. You have to be pretty close to your opponent to get 66A > 6C to work. The only thing you might need to delay is the 22B afterwards, but that depends on the height of the opponent; if you can't get the 22B to connect after 66A > 6C then try doing that.
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