Chiizu Posted May 22, 2011 Posted May 22, 2011 (edited) Matchup Ranking: Pretty even IMO. Could be 5.5-4.5 in Hazama's favour. Recommended Playstyle: Patient but not passive Simple. Don't get overzealous or his chains can shut you down fairly easily but don't let him impose his pace either. Your best bet would be a rather balanced playstyle and knowing how to ride the momentum is a must here. Don't give him too much space or you can kiss his arse goodbye, along with your chance to put pressure on him General Strategy: Offense: Don't let him breathe, apply overwhelming pressure to limit his movement and don't let him escape. His chains don't have much hitstun up close so take advantage of this. A good time to rush in would be when his ouroboros gauge is depleted, making him unable to use his chains to run away. His zoning can be a bitch, especially with D~A chain feints, try to get an accurate read on what he wants to do, make him waste his ouroboros gauge and hit hard whenever you can, get a KD if possible. Stagger pressure works fairly well in this matchup but as always, DPs can beat it so beware of his 214D~B. At mid-range, chances are Hazama will try to fish for a 3C as it ouranges all of your options, and leads to tasty damage if he's got 50 heat or hits CH. 2D will beat it clean but you better hit him or you're screwed. Last but not least, once he recovers his ouroboros gauge, chances are he'll try to create some space between you two, well don't let him. Airthrows are especially useful to keep him honest here so if you notice any habits, hit him hard. Besides, it's not like his chains have a 0 frame startup so you can actually airthrow him without much trouble if he's predictable. Defense: Reacting to his chain approaches are a must here. You have a few options, but no universal one so it will come down to a battle of wits. 4D leads to the most damage out of them all, but is fairly easily stuffed by j.2C or a well-timed j.B, use it sparingly, 6A is a bit more reliable. Airthrows are a legit tactic here. If you get a rough idea of where Hazama wants to go, you just might catch him. Up close, his normals outclass all of yours and beat most of your drives so relying on your drive is an absolute no-no here. His stance mixup is legit of course but there are a few holes you can exploit to get out of his pressure. 214D~A is pretty much safe on guard but gets stuffed by 5A, so take advantage of it with 5A>6C and so on. Once you're accustomed to 214D~A, chances are he'll try to mix it up with 214D~C. He's taking a big risk doing so as 2D beats it clean but the reward he gets for every single 214D~C is retarded, so don't eat it. Once he gets enough heat for a Jayoku, he can easily get a decent amount of damage off any random hit, so get out of his pressure ASAP. Your Best Tools(For This Matchup): 2D - Whatever we say, 2D still is your most useful tool here, although not nearly as useful as in other matchups. 2D loses to Hazama's 5B and 5C but obviously beats any of his lows into a world a pain. If you can react to his 214D~C with 2D, you'll be rubbing your hands together looking forward to that delicious damage. 6A - Yes, 6A. Why you ask? Because Hazama is going to come at you from above, in all likelihood. Hazama has many options to beat my beloved 4D, such as j.2C, so 6A is a more reliable anti-air here as it beats jump-ins and 214D~A cleanly. 5A - Stuffs 214D~A pressure even on normal block (there are moves you have to IB to stuff the following 214D~A if I'm not mistaken though), 'nuff said. Has A DP?: Yes, albeit a rather weird one, 214D~B still eats babies alive though. Has A DP With Heat?: Jayoku still is a DP, kind of. Chances are, you won't see it USED AS A DP nearly as often as before with the changes Arcsys did to it though. There are just much better uses of heat, but hey, it's netplay. Things To Look Out For: His chains, better normals, and damage are a bitch, simply put. Heatless and midscreen, he's pretty harmless, but avoid getting hit in the corner when he's got some heat to spare, or you're in for some BIG real soviet damage. On a side note, 6C CH in the corner with two GB pretty much means instant death so if you ever eat it, drop the controller, you deserve to die. Edited September 10, 2011 by Chiizu
Kaisukex Posted May 28, 2011 Posted May 28, 2011 Damn i agree. Got cornered once and got literately destroyed.(that goes for most characters. XD) what i do is to leave space in between and when his chain comes in and misses,I rush in. I personally use 5D to sting him and start of my combos. but that's only if i have enough time to do so. -any advice or suggestions anyone? :3
YukiBlue Posted May 28, 2011 Posted May 28, 2011 Jayoku is still Hazama's Biggest threat. Any herpderp can get 6-7k from a Jayoku. And for slightly "Better" players. They can gain another 50 heat from the Combo's After Jayoku. Which usually leads to Mizuchi at the end of the Jayoku follow-up, If they guy knows his shit. Other than a Vital RC, I see no other use for that 50 heat as Hazama. Also, He gains heat incredibly quickly. So avoid 214-B like the plague. I dont play Noel, but I think that info is pretty universal. Plus, any help is good help I guess.
Arcknight Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 His pokes are definitely boss. I fought a random Hazama in my player match room the other day and he out-poked Noel in every way possible. His normals are definitely not to be underestimated. He dropped tons of combos which I can only attribute to being unfamiliar with the new Haz and or Noel's hitbox not working like he'd have hoped. Still a tough cookie though.
Klazzix Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 Hazama is easily shut down by IB'ing most of his attacks. Chain-flies are all free to 6A AA. 3C (IB'd) > 214D~A is stuffed easily with a jab leading to an air combo. Noel's 2D can eat through most of Hazama's mid-range tools but use this with caution as always. Hazama's air to air game is strong but can still be won up-close using Noel's j.A. Basically, just rush him down and learn to barrier stop/block/bait to proper instant blocks and punish accordingly. Remember to just not give him space.
LunaKage Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 Hazama is easily shut down by IB'ing most of his attacks. Chain-flies are all free to 6A AA. 3C (IB'd) > 214D~A is stuffed easily with a jab leading to an air combo. Noel's 2D can eat through most of Hazama's mid-range tools but use this with caution as always. Hazama's air to air game is strong but can still be won up-close using Noel's j.A. Basically, just rush him down and learn to barrier stop/block/bait to proper instant blocks and punish accordingly. Remember to just not give him space. I don't know what leads you to believe this, because the only thing I've been able to 2D over were his low attacks, the Hazama I fight isn't the best in the world, but if there is one thing he did consistently was hit me out of 2D with everything, it was even a little rough 2Ding over his 2A :v
Chiizu Posted May 30, 2011 Author Posted May 30, 2011 (edited) His 5B and 5C literally rapes 2D, so use it sparingly. I might add the use of 6A as a viable anti-chain approach if it is confirmed by more than one player. Edited May 30, 2011 by Chiizu
Arcknight Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 I don't know what leads you to believe this, because the only thing I've been able to 2D over were his low attacks, the Hazama I fight isn't the best in the world, but if there is one thing he did consistently was hit me out of 2D with everything, it was even a little rough 2Ding over his 2A :v My experience was much the same. Heck he even did air-throw on my 2D a couple of times. I don't know if he had god hands or what. I eventually just stuck to normals rather than starting with a Drive to fish for a counter-hit.
NakataYuji Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 protip: if he lets out a chain, you block and he follows through, 4D him for a fatal counter. I can't explain it too well, but if anyone can articulate it better than I can, please do so, lol.
SkyKing Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 protip: if he lets out a chain, you block and he follows through, 4D him for a fatal counter. I can't explain it too well, but if anyone can articulate it better than I can, please do so, lol. It depends on what he does after and how close he is to you. I've had 4D beaten out by j.2C cleanly. For the most part I've had it to work, but just be careful not to auto-pilot the read too much.
Chiizu Posted June 2, 2011 Author Posted June 2, 2011 Yup, j.2C beats 4D cleanly if timed right. If he gets in with j.B, eat him alive.
LunaKage Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 I've had my 4D beaten by j.B ._. Seriously made me think I just could not push D against Hazama.
Arcknight Posted June 7, 2011 Posted June 7, 2011 After fighting a few Hazamas in ranked I am going to suggest pressing D is almost always a bad idea. His pokes are just too good. It's like Jesus kick but it's built into every limb/digit he has!
GunslingerSonic Posted July 7, 2011 Posted July 7, 2011 I've had my 4D beaten by j.B ._. Seriously made me think I just could not push D against Hazama. It really depends on Range and/or timing. 4D can beat j.B but it really depends on Range and Timing. Time it early, you're good. If Noel is away from Hazama's j.B Hit Range, you're good. @Chiizu - 4D can beat j.2C if Noel is away from j.2C's Hit Range. The Blast from 4D can beat it.
Chiizu Posted July 7, 2011 Author Posted July 7, 2011 Something about stuffing 214D~A with 5A. Don't follow it up with an air combo but with 5A>6C>OB>66C> stuff. Better damage and ending it with AT oki keeps Hazama close to you so you can put even more pressure on him.
GunslingerSonic Posted July 7, 2011 Posted July 7, 2011 Something about stuffing 214D~A with 5A. Don't follow it up with an air combo but with 5A>6C>OB>66C> stuff. Better damage and ending it with AT oki keeps Hazama close to you so you can put even more pressure on him. True but be warned that if Hazama got heat, he can use Jayoku. Be prepare to block if that happens.
Dusty Posted July 7, 2011 Posted July 7, 2011 Word of advice from a Hazama player If he gets a knock down in the corner his 2A>5C OS will beat everything (2D, 4D, 5D, Jump, throw) except wake up super so keep that in mind if you're getting pressured really bad and you see him doing 5C meaties. As for neutral game this can be very annoying for noel, hazama can run away from noel for poke her with chains but if you make a good read and IAD you can slowly close the gap. Pay attention to his chain gauge and try to rush in when he has 0 stocks (most hazama's don't pay attention to their gauge and will try to run away when they have no stocks punish them HARD). Play patient, noel does more damage overall and and has better abare so this is a very winnable match.
excelence Posted July 8, 2011 Posted July 8, 2011 Word of advice from a Hazama player If he gets a knock down in the corner his 2A>5C OS will beat everything (2D, 4D, 5D, Jump, throw) except wake up super so keep that in mind if you're getting pressured really bad and you see him doing 5C meaties. As for neutral game this can be very annoying for noel, hazama can run away from noel for poke her with chains but if you make a good read and IAD you can slowly close the gap. Pay attention to his chain gauge and try to rush in when he has 0 stocks (most hazama's don't pay attention to their gauge and will try to run away when they have no stocks punish them HARD). Play patient, noel does more damage overall and and has better abare so this is a very winnable match. That hold true before he got 50%... if u got cornered, get the hell out of there fast, any hit he got are guaranteed 5k minimum, and from my experience, Hazama pokes're very safe. Yomi're required to counter his moves
GunslingerSonic Posted July 19, 2011 Posted July 19, 2011 (edited) Word of advice from a Hazama player If he gets a knock down in the corner his 2A>5C OS will beat everything (2D, 4D, 5D, Jump, throw) except wake up super so keep that in mind if you're getting pressured really bad and you see him doing 5C meaties. As for neutral game this can be very annoying for noel, hazama can run away from noel for poke her with chains but if you make a good read and IAD you can slowly close the gap. Pay attention to his chain gauge and try to rush in when he has 0 stocks (most hazama's don't pay attention to their gauge and will try to run away when they have no stocks punish them HARD). Play patient, noel does more damage overall and and has better abare so this is a very winnable match. When they come at you with Ouroboros , Hazama players will use moves like j.A, j.B and j.2C. If I'm not mistaken, 6A loses to Hazama's j.2C. 6A can lose to j.A and j.B if 6A is timed a little early. -If your trap in the corner and Hazama uses j.2C after Ouroboros. Don't block low. Don't Attack at all. Don't risk doing j.4D to escape. The best suggestion I can give you is: 1) Block and use Counter Assault (If you got 50 Heat.) to escape from the corner. 2) Block Hazama's attacks -Be Careful of his 6A overhead, 6B Low hit, 6C, Zaneiga (214D~C), Hirentotsu (j.214B), and Jayoku Houtenjin (If blocked, it takes 1 primer.) 3) Risk A Optic Barrel, I wouldn't recommend it. Its worth a shot. Optic Barrel beats j.2C depending on Time. I'll work on Options to Counter and Escape Hazama's corner traps with his Ouroboros. Remember, most Hazama's I see traps you in the corner with j.6D or 5D. You jump, they'll attempt 6D or 4D (if you're close to Hazama). Edited July 26, 2011 by GunslingerSonic
Fluck Posted July 25, 2011 Posted July 25, 2011 Something I've noticed as a Hazama player, not sure if Noel players can confirm: If Hazama makes you block a chain (let's say j.6D) and chains in, if you do 4D I can just mash BBBB and even though j.B whiffs, I have enough time to land and do 5B and it will hit you out of 4D.
LunaKage Posted July 25, 2011 Posted July 25, 2011 Something I've noticed as a Hazama player, not sure if Noel players can confirm: If Hazama makes you block a chain (let's say j.6D) and chains in, if you do 4D I can just mash BBBB and even though j.B whiffs, I have enough time to land and do 5B and it will hit you out of 4D. 1st point: I have never seen j.B wiff on our 4D ever, ever ever. 2nd point: 4D comes out slow as hell, so what you say is probably true.
Fluck Posted July 25, 2011 Posted July 25, 2011 1st point: I have never seen j.B wiff on our 4D ever, ever ever. 2nd point: 4D comes out slow as hell, so what you say is probably true. 1) I like to do my j.B early because the number of active frames + chain momentum allows me to land a hit with much earlier timing. Probably a scrub tactic. 2) Ok, thanks.
YukiBlue Posted July 25, 2011 Posted July 25, 2011 Probably a scrub tactic.Naw. But against Noel you have to activate it a bit sooner if she goes for a 4D on Block. Something to do with some form of frame, I dont know.
skd Posted July 26, 2011 Posted July 26, 2011 Noel has 1-18 invin on upperbody above knee and the attack has 25 startup. Assuming chain blockstun is in effect, Pull in > jB often frame traps or trades which leads me to believe you have a hole of about 1-7f. Considering the few frames it takes to land and stuff, 5B (8f startup) can definitely stuff 4D. There really isnt even a point in trying to 4D. how do i block?!
LunaKage Posted July 26, 2011 Posted July 26, 2011 Noel has 1-18 invin on upperbody above knee and the attack has 25 startup. Assuming chain blockstun is in effect, Pull in > jB often frame traps or trades which leads me to believe you have a hole of about 1-7f. Considering the few frames it takes to land and stuff, 5B (8f startup) can definitely stuff 4D. There really isnt even a point in trying to 4D. how do i block?! I'd assume the hole is less than 5 frames, since not even 6A works in that situation in my experience, and since her head invuln starts at frame 5, I'd place the hole anywhere from 1-4 frames. I haven't tested on IB yet though.
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