Eshi Posted June 3, 2011 Posted June 3, 2011 Few things feel as gross as correctly predicting a burst and punishing with a huge combo. But, it can be pretty difficult to get to a high enough level to do so reliably, not to mention dropping combos on wrong predictions sucks and can cost you a win. I think a thread like this would generate pretty useful discussion. So, I'll start. If you're at a point in a combo where you think the opponent is going to attempt a burst, you can use BB's buffer system + revolver action to your advantage. While holding back, input a fast-recovering normal (EX: 5A/2A/jA) and, just after pressing it, buffer a normal that can gatling from it (EX: jA~B). If the opponent bursts during this input, the jA whiffs, recovers and you automatically block it. If the opponent doesn't burst then jA > jB combos normally and you can continue from there. The same principle can be applied to ground combos as well. The downside is that adding unnecessary A attacks will prorate the combo a bit harder, however, it's more than worth the trade-off if it works and it's infinitely better than just dropping combos.
Linear04 Posted June 6, 2011 Posted June 6, 2011 burst has autoguard on some frames though, doesnt it?
Justice7541 Posted June 6, 2011 Posted June 6, 2011 burst has autoguard on some frames though, doesnt it? Only in CT. It's legit invul in CS.
MashThat5A Posted June 7, 2011 Posted June 7, 2011 You can also apply this to bait things on an opponent's wakeup if you do a meaty 5A/2A.
Manta Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 22 Frames startup, 6 frames active, 27 in recovery with the last seven actually being vulnerable. Probably worth looking up some moves that can be invulnerable or guardpoint in that active time and recover quicker. Blocking is always an option and in theory if the move was dash or jump cancellable, you might be able to block it by Barrier blocking asap.
SsbbOrUp Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 if you are jin user you can do 623D what give you grate combo with its second attack and its cancel most his attacks ... but this chance (after burst ) can be closed for ever if the other player know when to burst >_>
Remiri Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 predicting a burst with a move like jin 623D is usually a colossal waste of meter, most good players wait to burst until you throw out a move with high startup like jin 6C to launch.
Justice7541 Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 Weren't you paying attention? It gives you a GRATE COMBO.
CakeWasBannedd Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 good players burst when there's not chance you'll be able to block it. rather than unnecessarily prorating or dropping your combo, you're much better off just taking the damage/oki
Linear04 Posted June 11, 2011 Posted June 11, 2011 ^ this os seems highly useless in high level matches, people usually do it on the harder hitting moves, rather than situations right after jump cancels/ wherever you can do a ja
Lord Knight Posted June 11, 2011 Posted June 11, 2011 burst safe combos are very very good very worth learning
Eshi Posted June 11, 2011 Author Posted June 11, 2011 good players burst when there's not chance you'll be able to block it. rather than unnecessarily prorating or dropping your combo, you're much better off just taking the damage/okieven high level players burst at bad times, especially in the U.S. I learned about this OS from watching japanese players like tsujikawa.
Nini Heart Posted June 11, 2011 Posted June 11, 2011 (edited) Talking about OS burst punishes, I had some Makoto specific one in CS1. Not sure if it still works though. Will give it a try next time I feel the motivation to play BB. Here it is though http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8OYP6u-RBA&feature=player_detailpage#t=459s Edit: Guess it's more burst safe than burst punishes lol. Also everyone bursts at bad times. Even those top JP players you guys worship. However, because they are top JP players and people don't expect them to burst there it works. It's like "aa he's too pro to burst there, i'mma continue my combo" "oh shit he bursted" and "aa he's pro, this is the only place he can reasonably burst taking those other factors in to account" "fuk he didn't burst" Sometimes they can easily get into your head just because of this pedestal you're putting them on, and they KNOW it. I've burst at scrubby burst points against good players and it worked because they didn't expect it from me. Bursting is a big mindgame in and of itself, having set burst rules will get you fucked up. On the WNF stream, I saw Satoshi using makoto's max range 2c for footsies. And it was working. Anyone else would have been bodied for doing that. TLDR: Top players know people give them a lot of credit and use it to their advantage to get away with shit they wouldn't if they weren't given that muh credit. Edited June 11, 2011 by Nini Heart
Remius Posted June 13, 2011 Posted June 13, 2011 Sometimes they can easily get into your head just because of this pedestal you're putting them on, and they KNOW it. I've burst at scrubby burst points against good players and it worked because they didn't expect it from me. Bursting is a big mindgame in and of itself, having set burst rules will get you fucked up. I've started to find that this works for lots of things, actually. The idea of "respect" sometimes goes far enough that you'll actually begin to let things happen that you usually wouldn't. Like, near the end of a match, both of you a hit from death, in a corner when you'd expect that hazama to counterDD+rapid out of your pressure, and instead he just gets up, grabs you and kills you. This would easily get you killed, if only the other person wasn't expecting you to do something a bit safer. You can go very far with this with some characters. Especially characters like Ragna, where people can tend to judge you based on which moves you decide to throw out or approach with. This can be used to your advantage if you've been playing your cards right throughout the battle. It can lead to some extremely scrubby or risky tactics working way better than they should because the person expects you to react a certain way.
Moy_X7 Posted June 13, 2011 Posted June 13, 2011 You can go very far with this with some characters. Especially characters like Ragna, where people can tend to judge you based on which moves you decide to throw out or approach with. This can be used to your advantage if you've been playing your cards right throughout the battle. It can lead to some extremely scrubby or risky tactics working way better than they should because the person expects you to react a certain way. Bwahahah, that's how some of my matches went a couple of days ago using Platinum. Opponent - Mmm, he hasn't used Heart Car even once and he has the meter to RC it. I guess he won't use it at all. Me - *Heart Car* Opponent - FUCK *burst*, I bet he we won't do it again. Me - *Heart Car* :D Opponent - ... Heart Car to 5K, yo. Then I land it, I expect them to burst, try to bait, and give up my 5K A lot of people tend to burst the moment they get touched if they whiff something or if something that's very unsafe on block get baited. However, they don't usually do it because they've subjected themselves to a heavy punish but simply because they're pissed that their move whiffed/got baited lol. Get those JC-able/anti-burst punishes ready and put the hurt on them XD
Andru Posted June 14, 2011 Posted June 14, 2011 What do you guys feel about RC'ing to block and punish a burst? I guess it really depends on a lot of factors if it's worth it or not. Some characters can barely get any damage off of doing it, and maybe getting knocked away + letting them lower their primers is better for some characters like Lambda.
Nini Heart Posted June 14, 2011 Posted June 14, 2011 What do you guys feel about RC'ing to block and punish a burst? I guess it really depends on a lot of factors if it's worth it or not. Some characters can barely get any damage off of doing it, and maybe getting knocked away + letting them lower their primers is better for some characters like Lambda. Depends on your character and him having good RC spots. CS Makoto was big on this. You burst on a drive? Eat your 6k nigga.
Remius Posted June 14, 2011 Posted June 14, 2011 (edited) Bwahahah, that's how some of my matches went a couple of days ago using Platinum. Opponent - Mmm, he hasn't used Heart Car even once and he has the meter to RC it. I guess he won't use it at all. Me - *Heart Car* Opponent - FUCK *burst*, I bet he we won't do it again. Me - *Heart Car* :D Opponent - ... Heart Car to 5K, yo. I hate platinum. It's like absolutely everything she does revolves around that move. Either using it to knock you to the corner or scaring you by not using it. There are like no counters for that move aside from letting it wiff or block+punish. I was playing a friend who knew i was anticipating the move, so he would just switch up between using heartcar and her dash command grab. So annoying Edited June 14, 2011 by Remius
Eshi Posted June 14, 2011 Author Posted June 14, 2011 What do you guys feel about RC'ing to block and punish a burst? I guess it really depends on a lot of factors if it's worth it or not. Some characters can barely get any damage off of doing it, and maybe getting knocked away + letting them lower their primers is better for some characters like Lambda.Trying to get away with psychic RC's has a chance of being a huge waste of meter, of course. But if it's possible to use it on reaction it is extremely viable. When certain characters connect with certain attacks the hitstop adds more frames on to the start-up of the burst, making it easier to react to. CS makoto's drives were notorious for it, but it's still true in CSII and for moves like Tsubaki's 22D. There's also some weird glitch where you do an offensive burst on the same frame that a move connects, so the offensive burst turns into a defensive burst and adds more frames on its start-up. It's also a great time to RC if necessary.
Lord Knight Posted June 14, 2011 Posted June 14, 2011 rc is good at the spots where its easy to burst like litchi rekkas, ragna 5D, etc
Mightfo Posted June 14, 2011 Posted June 14, 2011 (edited) There are like no counters for that move aside from letting it wiff or block+punish. I HEARD ICE CAR NEEDS TO BE NERFED the funny thing is that heart car is MUCH more unsafe than ice car so the risk attached to it is huge. Edited June 14, 2011 by Mightfo
Recommended Posts