Just how effective is challenge mode for a beginner to practice?

[CyberPhantom25]

I am sorry if this belongs elsewhere--there are a few places I could see this thread being related, but this feels more like a beginner-related question.

I really want to know just how effective the challenge mode is for beginners--and how heavily it can impact just simply getting better. I can't say I'm totally new to BB or GG etc, but this is the first time I've really taken it seriously without just resorting to scrubby tactics and a mindset to match. I use Ragna, Lambda and Hazama for now--and really want to get better. Recently, I've found myself hitting a brick wall with two of Ragna's challenge mode...challenges--one I can get past with difficulty, and his number (7 I believe? It has the Soul Eater canceled into Dead Spike with a follow up dash into C) seems outright impossible; I know its not, but its still giving me trouble.

I need to ask, is being unable to do something in challenge mode a bad sign? Would better players consider it a necessity to be able to be able to finish all challenges to be competent? I figure it just means my execution and sense of timing need more work, but its a bit discouraging all the same, and I'm not entirely sure just how important it is to be dedicating time to challenge mode rather than outright training or fights.

[YukiBlue]

I've played over 3000 games and not finished challenge mode with a Single character.

Challenge Mode is there to more or less show you what your character can do, What combo's are effective and certain situations and such. It's never really a bad sign that you cannot do something in challenge mode. It just means you have to play that character a bit more, Really. In time, with Practice im sure Challenge mode combo's will come naturally, or you could simply ignore them all together like me.

Challenge mode doesn't offer the best Combo's either, The best/optimal combo's can be found on Dustloop character Sub forums, In a much easier format to read and practice overtime (I know for a fact the Ragna combo thread is possibly the best on Dustloop, check it).

So, in short, No. You dont need to be able to do challenge mode like it's a walk in the park, if you want to take the game seriously, Pick 1 or 2 characters and stick with them, Lurk the Character forums and Matchup threads, and You will be on the way to winning EVO and SBO 20 times over.

And to answer the thread title. It's effective, but I'd say combo threads on Dustloop are easier. Optimal (Must know) Combo's are highlighted in red, too. So you know where to focus your attention. Pretty smart, really.

[CyberPhantom25]

Alright, thank you for the answer. Don't get me wrong--I definitely know there are 'better' combos listed here on Dustloop and out there in general, though not necessarily simpler ones. I just wasn't able to really tell whether its a definitively bad sign that I just couldn't nail the execution and or timing of some of the challenge mode combos. Thank you for answering my questions though, I'll continue on trying to complete challenge mode, but I'll spend less time on it and more on the optimal combos listed on here.

[YukiBlue]

Nah, I find Challenge mode difficult, It's easier for me to learn through experience rather than have it all written down for me.

Glad I could help.

[SolarMisae]

I've gone through my character's challenge mode like, 4 or 5 times total...all in one sit down ..but only reason I can get through it whenever I feel like it now is because of what I learned here.

Yuki is right, challenge mode is helpful but it'll only get you so far. It's good for beginners to get a feel for their chosen character, and general execution, but you'll learn more through experience than anything else. Best way to learn imo is to fight good people and get pummeled over and over.

[Justice7541]

It helps you figure out what shit links to what. i.e. doing challenge mode tips you off to the fact that anything > 6C 623B in corner will lead into DP loop, or that Tao can loop j.8D~A, etc. The full combos themselves usually aren't optimal though.

[Tong]

Depends.

Some trials are shitty, while others are very practical and instructive.

[Rhiya]

Yeah, usefulness of challenge mode varies greatly by character.

Also, a lot of times, challenge mode will have important combo parts, but not important combos. The Tsubaki challenges, for example, have an IAD combo -- but it's not an easy IAD to go into or the most useful one. The IAD part is applicable in a lot of other combos, though, so the challenge is useful even if the combo itself might not be.

[Manta]

The great thing about it is the demonstration. There's a lot of combo talk on these forums that must appear to be completely greek to many people, so challenge mode, with the ability to see the timings and the spacings required, shows you what words alone cannot.

[yashanyu1]

The great thing about it is the demonstration. There's a lot of combo talk on these forums that must appear to be completely greek to many people, so challenge mode, with the ability to see the timings and the spacings required, shows you what words alone cannot.

I gotta agree with this. Imo challenge mode is a great way to start off. When I was learning cs1 haz challenge really helped me learn where to start.

[Pestilence]

I found the challenge mode to be more effective then the dustloop sections for BB.

Keep in mind with BB that you have a new generation of players with a different mindset. Some see their rhyme and reason, others like me don't.

Go through the challenge mode and learn some basics. Pay close attention to the heat free and non-super-situational combos. Those are the ones you should take with you. Not the 100 heat, counter hit only in the corner kind of combos that Challenge mode offers. Learn what works for you and then experiment in training mode to figure out what other kind of options you have with it.

Lots of times, I'll just do what make sense to me and sometimes I'll watch a JP vid and see them doing the same things and it kind of confirms my thought process.

As an example, when I first started playing Mu, I saw her 236A and said hey this will make for awesome Oki setups. I made a post about it and some idiot tried to tell me otherwise. Then I watched a vid, and heyyy what do I see the JP Mu's doing?

My point is, be an actually player, not a theory fighter. Too much of the BB generation is all bogus theory fighter. Challenge mode is very useful but it doesn't mean you need to be able to perform every combo in it.

[Viridian]

Speaking as someone who is very much new to fighting games (a couple of weeks on CS2 and some very occasional SF play in the past)... I've found Challenge mode to be pretty daunting to be honest :s The timing for combos wasn't particularly intuitive to pick up whenever special moves are involved, and it took me a fair amount of playing to start being able to pull off very basic combos (that don't involve DDs).

I'm probably just very bad though, but SFIV's equivalent felt like it had a smoother progression curve and was a bit more useful in getting the very basics down before getting fight experience. Just my experience anyway as an absolute beginner

[Star-Demon]

What I really would like is a mode that stops time while I'm learning and tells me "Right here you can Optionselect/hitconfirm/link to" and so on. "Now try doing this"

Like Super Mario RPG.

I just wouldn't know otherwise. I don't like to study - I like to play. Everyone else just says "figure it out".

[Manta]

What I really would like is a mode that stops time while I'm learning and tells me "Right here you can Optionselect/hitconfirm/link to" and so on. "Now try doing this"

Like Super Mario RPG.

I just wouldn't know otherwise. I don't like to study - I like to play. Everyone else just says "figure it out".

That'd be hard. What would be easier would be a replay system that pauses on key points such as "overhead struck here", "crossup occurred here", "reversal could've happened here"

[Star-Demon]

That's very vague - I'd say it'd be character specific - so you can understand HOW your character can do those things instead of groping for answers after 200 losses.

[CyberPhantom25]

Wow, I must say this got a little more attention than I thought. Either way, everyone's input was and still is very welcome. I am still going in challenge mode if only because it feels like it does add to execution training and maybe leads to better timing, however; I'm definitely going to go and practice the more effective, optimal combos found here or elsewhere. I gotta say, without demonstration its much harder because its hard to see where the timing lies in each move, but I guess that's the fun in discovering how things work.

Er, do you think challenge mode provides a little insight on how character's play/their playstyles? I will understand if its on a character basis, of course.

[YukiBlue]

Only offensively.

Example: Defensively,Bang struggles, and offensively Tager struggles. Challenge mode teaches what to do when you have the chance, but not how to find the chance.

[Dignity]

For me, at least, Challenge mode helped me get the basics of combos with a character. I changed the combos offered a little, or just made my own based off those. Some combos were just too hard for me, or I felt that those situations would never really happen online. Those I just watched a couple of times and practiced some useful looking parts. Just look at the ones you feel you can execute without dropping it AND you know when to use.

Point is, some helped, others didn't. Which ones are useful is really up to you.

[yashanyu1]

That'd be hard. What would be easier would be a replay system that pauses on key points such as "overhead struck here", "crossup occurred here", "reversal could've happened here"

Cmon we can't have arcys do all the work now xD

[Airk]

I'm still waiting for someone to implement something like this though. It seems like this is really what is missing in terms of getting new players up to speed, rather than the BB "wall of text" character tutorials followed by "Beat this dummy that we set on extra special stupid" and then "Here are some combos!"

[Reikomaru]

For me, I haven't done much of the challenge modes. I do believe that they are there to provide basic combos that you can use and to learn how your character plays like, and what stuff you can do (I find a lot of those things to be difficult, but knowing that you CAN do those would be really helpful).

Anyway, if you're a complete beginner, yes, go for the challenge modes to learn the BnBs. In my opinion though, I prefer the Dustloop combos, as those were discovered and recorded by players though their experience and creativity. The "Tried and Tested" if you will.

After you can nail down combos though, go for Arcade Mode/Versus Mode on Hard/Hell, then Challenge Mode (Tager/Hakumen+MindReading). Those are VERY easy though compared to fighting REAL people online. Fighting real people (the great players) is where the game is really at, and it will surely test your mettle.

LolOffTopic: I usually get a split-second lag when fighting online, so my moves get delayed and reaction time is dulled... so it's YOMI to the max! Your opponent is lagging too, so time to guess what they're gonna do a split-second later and counter it! (and hope that your split-second-late counter will reach it in time)

Edited August 24, 2011 by Reikomaru
grammatical error

[DieMyDarling]

I feel like Challenge Mode is a good place to start, especially with combo execution, but there are so many things - even basic combo-related things - that Challenge Mode just doesn't tell you. For example, to get Jin's 5b after his C DP on his corner loop, they have to be high, and the only way to get them that high is to slightly delay your B DP after the 6c. It doesn't tell you that, and it's incredibly difficult to figure that out just by watching the comp demonstrate it. Also, some of the combos in challenge mode are just oddly sub-optimal, and actually more difficult than better combos.

The thing is, the combos on Dustloop are great if you have perfect execution. Some of us don't. So take the combos on Challenge Mode, find the combos here, and alter them to make good combos that you can execute consistently. Always finishing a sub-optimal combo is much better than sometimes finishing an optimal combo.

[Khaoz77]

I know challenge mode helped me step up my game a lot. When I was learning Noel, I used to be scared shitless learning her because at the time I was watching a lot of R-1 videos, and the way he played Noel was intimidating on terms of learning the character and using her to her full potential. Thanks to Challenge mode, I feel as if it made me a better player using a great character.

Replying to DieMyDarling's post, regarding what the Challenge Mode doesn't tell you, I agree, but I don't think the same thing can be said if one was a visual learner. Since I am a visual learner myself, I can vouch for this (but i don't think this would be relevant, because it seems that since I have been playing fighters for a LONG time, I can do it if I see it) but anyways it is a possibility that can happen.

[DSveno]

People that are not familiar with fighting game -> challenge mode.

Guilty Gear geek -> Dustloop.

Most of BnB combo on Dustloop are more effective, and some are even easier than challenge mode.

[Bangarkune20]

I know that for me personally, I was attempting to main Jin. The earlier challenges helped me see where I need to go with him as far as combos and such go. But like everyone else said, I think looking through the forums would do you more good in the long run. Also, there is one thing that bothers me about Challenge mode and it's that they put multiple combos in one challenge. Why not just have them be like chapters in one particular challenge? Eh, well that's enough of my rant.