Jyosua Posted July 20, 2012 Posted July 20, 2012 I have to IB against Jin, gotta get something out of his long block-strings lol. As for the latter, I guess they forget that Jin has access to that gatling. Hell, I forgot he even had that gatling until you mentioned it now lol. Shit, so did I and I went through all his gatlings calculating frametraps. Adding to permanent memory now.
Chris Chaos Posted July 21, 2012 Posted July 21, 2012 Well I don't IB at all whenever I play vs. you, lol. A lot of people seem to get hit by 3C after 2C for some reason, I've been observing this phenomenon ever since. Well most people don't expect anything after 2C on the exception of a DP so some people are going to get clipped with 3C. Also, this is a must see: "Anthem of the Runback" FIGHTING GAMES.wmv
ShelledMenace Posted July 21, 2012 Posted July 21, 2012 lol the 3C thing might be because they're expecting a 6B or something, assuming everyone knows he has that gatling.
mAc Chaos Posted July 21, 2012 Posted July 21, 2012 Why would 6B change anything though, they both can be blocked by holding downback.
mAc Chaos Posted July 21, 2012 Posted July 21, 2012 Ah right. For Hakumen, I just hold downback and try to 2D the 6B, so I don't need to stand.
Jyosua Posted July 21, 2012 Posted July 21, 2012 Ah right. For Hakumen, I just hold downback and try to 2D the 6B, so I don't need to stand. Right, as Hakumen that's what you should do. But using the 3C gatling will work wonders against the mashy assholes who disrespect 6B every time. Unfortunately, it probably won't work well against characters who block and DP or just DP (like Ragna) or Hakumen, but it's good to realize there's another option.
Moy_X7 Posted July 21, 2012 Posted July 21, 2012 Hey, if Jins are doing nothing but the 2C > 6B gatling, then you should expect people to "mash". I for one am not afraid to push A after a 2C. The 2C > 3C gatling is pretty tight so you'll have to do 2C > delayed 3C if you want to frame trap. It could work as a pretty good frame trap since a 3C CH leads to good damage.
toanenadiz Posted July 21, 2012 Posted July 21, 2012 I almost feel bad for being called a mashy asshole. But I would rather press 5A to against a 25 frame move with an obvious animation that is plus on block than block it. I don't like to give Jin any slack. He feels like the type of character who will take any small thing he can get and make you regret it.
Moy_X7 Posted July 21, 2012 Posted July 21, 2012 Nothing wrong with pressing buttons when you expect it to work. Better than just sitting there and letting people reset pressure on you for free.
ShelledMenace Posted July 22, 2012 Posted July 22, 2012 There's also the somewhat unsafe option of 5D after 3C if you're expecting the mash too. Not really good for getting a combo but it'll probably keep them on their toes. I guess. lol. It's worked for me sometimes.
Moy_X7 Posted July 22, 2012 Posted July 22, 2012 3C does not gating into 5D, I know at least that much lol. In the other hand, you could always cancel it into Ice Blade A to make it slightly more safe. Unless you meant after 2C? At which point you're better off going for the 3C gatling for a tight string, delayed 3C for a frame trap, 6B to reset pressure, or 236A to end pressure. You're at a range where you'll be punished if you cancel 2C into 5D, which is not worth it given 5D's risk-reward factor.
ShelledMenace Posted July 22, 2012 Posted July 22, 2012 (edited) I definitely meant to put 2C lol. Whoops. The day 3C gatlings into another normal is the day Jin becomes CS1 Ragna. And yeah, I know it's unsafe. For the sake of variation though it might be good to put it in once in a while. 3C isn't exactly safe either, at best you'll probably end up in blockstun after a blocked ice sword, or I don't know. There's a ton of things, but yeah 3C is better to use lol. Edited July 22, 2012 by ShelledMenace
Moy_X7 Posted July 22, 2012 Posted July 22, 2012 3C isn't exactly safe either, at best you'll probably end up in blockstun after a blocked ice sword, or I don't know. There's a ton of things, but yeah 3C is better to use lol. lol, variation? It's all about risk-reward. 3C is punishable on block and so is 236A on IB. However, 3C can lead to heavy potential damage whereas 5D does pretty much nothing but give you a bit of breathing room. 3C is a frame more punishable than 5D. However, 3C can be special canceled into something slightly more safe (236A is -6 point blank) or you can try your luck even more with a DP. 5D in the other hand, can only be canceled into the EX specials.
ShelledMenace Posted July 22, 2012 Posted July 22, 2012 Variation as in someone ending their blockstrings the same way every time, like say with a 3C or 3C 236A. I say variation for the sake of risk-reward. Totally true that 3C is just the normal better option, but I'm saying you can 5D to do something different, and possibly snag a hit with. Plus it isn't hard to confirm off of a 5D as long as you have the heat, and you're willing to spend it. I probably use 5D more than I should, but I'm just saying the option is there lol.
Moy_X7 Posted July 22, 2012 Posted July 22, 2012 I suppose, but then again, I hardly ever even use 2C since I'd much rather frame trap with something like 2A > 5C or 2A stagger lol.
Yuushiro Posted July 22, 2012 Author Posted July 22, 2012 Generally if I am not sure what my opponent is doing yet... I would test the water with something safer like 5C frame trap and then jump cancel and see what's going on or what not.
ShelledMenace Posted July 22, 2012 Posted July 22, 2012 (edited) Lol I usually don't even remember I have a 2C I can use in pressure until like halfway through a match. Oh well. @Yuushiro Yeah, we were just talking about the 2C to 3C option itself rather than in the context of a specific match since it's kind of expected that you'll have to test every player with something safer before you try stuff lol. Edited July 22, 2012 by ShelledMenace
Yuushiro Posted July 22, 2012 Author Posted July 22, 2012 5c > 2c can be a frametrap..., I use it sometimes against scottie tager.... also on good distance I cancel 2c into 2d and that's pretty safe I think for big hitbox character. also sometimes I cancel it into 6D. Risky though..., I only use it when I know they are committed for blocking or I know the distance is safe enough to do that
ShelledMenace Posted July 22, 2012 Posted July 22, 2012 Oh I never really thought about canceling it into 2D on a big character lol. Pretty interesting, though I feel like it's probably just as risky as doing 2C 6D lol just in a different way.
Jyosua Posted July 22, 2012 Posted July 22, 2012 Hey, if Jins are doing nothing but the 2C > 6B gatling, then you should expect people to "mash". I for one am not afraid to push A after a 2C. The 2C > 3C gatling is pretty tight so you'll have to do 2C > delayed 3C if you want to frame trap. It could work as a pretty good frame trap since a 3C CH leads to good damage. I wasn't necessarily just talking about that gatling. Nobody respects 6B and its shitty advantage. Ah yeah, you'd have to delay it. I almost feel bad for being called a mashy asshole. But I would rather press 5A to against a 25 frame move with an obvious animation that is plus on block than block it. I don't like to give Jin any slack. He feels like the type of character who will take any small thing he can get and make you regret it. I wasn't actually calling you out when I said that. XD I was thinking of some other people I play against a whole lot. 5c > 2c can be a frametrap..., I use it sometimes against scottie tager.... also on good distance I cancel 2c into 2d and that's pretty safe I think for big hitbox character. also sometimes I cancel it into 6D. Risky though..., I only use it when I know they are committed for blocking or I know the distance is safe enough to do that It's a 4 frame gap, so yeah... it's a good frame trap that I use a lot. I actually only discovered the 2D cancel on big hitboxes relatively recently. It's pretty awesome though.
-Kid Posted July 23, 2012 Posted July 23, 2012 It's a 4 frame gap, so yeah... it's a good frame trap that I use a lot. Having said that, I wouldn't go about using it TOO much. Believe it or not, I've actually be poked out of the 5C > 2C gatling on IB..and it's not like 5C is difficult to IB. We need that 2C > 5C Gatling back. Also, hitting a big hitbox with 2D sounds legit, but if it so happens that the 2D is blocked at that distance, what would people usually do? Because I just block after because it's not too good of a pressure tool, and can even put you on the defensive.
Moy_X7 Posted July 23, 2012 Posted July 23, 2012 Pretty much the only character that the 2C > 2D gatling will work on is Tager and I guess a handful of other characters if they Barrier block the 2C at its max range. You have two options against Tager: 1) Your 5A will barely beat his 5A at that range 2) You'll have to back dash unless you want to guess on a Buster/AC Against other characters, you'll probably just want to throw out a 2A since it's pretty quick and has decent reach. Other than that, I'd do the same thing as Kid suggested: back off, and see what they do afterwards.
Yuushiro Posted July 23, 2012 Author Posted July 23, 2012 (edited) It's still +1 on non-IB.., so I just see what's going on at first and juts continue pressure accordingly or block... like a 50-50 thing.... so yea pretty much what moy and kid said lol.... Edited July 23, 2012 by Yuushiro
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