[CSE] Iron Tager CS2 -> CSE Changelog

[Osuna]

I didn't think about checking, but I Think you don't based on my memory.

Oh and Bsledge does have a pseudo buff. It recovers faster, or at least lamda has to time things tighter for some reason to punish it. Might be more true for the charged version. Oh and a tip for anyone who wishes this was good, abuse it against lambda during the first week of the release. Their muscle memory will not work out well unless that lambda was used to air backdashing like twice in response to sledge.

[Manta]

Doesn't answer the question about VC adding to your charge if you break it.

[Isorropia]

You actually don't.

This was confirmed awhile back.

Axis already answered, we have video evidence from ages ago that cancelling into hammer means you don't get any sparkbolt meter.

[DJScrub]

Can someone explain to me what is meant in this thread by "level 2" normals, etc.? I have never heard of this categorization before.

[Isorropia]

It's just a game mechanic. Higher level attacks inflict more blockstun and hitstun.

http://www.dustloop.com/guides/bbcs2/systemGuide/systemGuide.html#attackLevel

[Manta]

Axis already answered, we have video evidence from ages ago that cancelling into hammer means you don't get any sparkbolt meter.

Oh, I thought he meant that VC doesn't charge any faster. I remember reading that somewhere.

Next discussion point. It seems that 720 is no longer always the perfect punish move now either. Assuming they haven't got a burst, you seem to be able to get better damage by landing a clean 5C and using the 50 heat to MTW, and then build enough heat to MTW them again. Obviously 720 is still that lightning fast reversal with absurd reach.

Edited November 15, 2011 by Manta

[Darlos9D]

Obviously 720 is still that lightning fast reversal with absurd reach.

And which still provides extreme visceral satisfaction.

[Manta]

And which still provides extreme visceral satisfaction.

I'm personally going to get more gratification from showing all those Noel players what a really long combo is.

[Osuna]

I've been saying 720 is over rated since CS2 so naturally I think it's a bit of a waste for anything but a surefire kill.

But it has been like that for a while, and in all honesty I don't like using it. It's like oh look, I didn't kill him and now I'm at full screen against Mu again because I don't get mag or oki out of it. Aside from the amazing damage it basically does everything you Don't want to do with tager.

In just my own extremely limited and personal experience/knowledge of the way I was getting meter and damage from CSex I will say that landing a 720 when you get 50 heat usually doesn't kill them and gives them space again. Landing it late it could have just as well been a 360 3C MTW if you had mag. With the buffs to mag and mag combos I find that keeping them magnetized is really important.

Oh that reminds me of one change I didn't talk about before. 2D can actually be used sometimes now. It got me in on Lambda a couple times. I had her magged and she had back dashed into a pretty much full screen advantage. I mixed up J.Cing over swords with 2Ding under swords and when I got 2D through I was right in her face from really far away. This is part of my evolution of getting mad at 720, I would land one doing this, then run out of mag and have to get in again without it, which sucked.

[Manta]

I agree with that. It's more a question of what's our ideal punish now if we manage to get ourselves a free combo (If we ever get a guard crush for example, like that will happen now).

What's so special about 2D now?

[A.X.I.S.]

Hard knock down and the magnetism is way stronger.

[Osuna]

The mag was helpful. I don't use it much in CS2 but it feels like it has faster start up and goes farther in CSex.

[Manta]

Nice, Might even find there's some combo options in the corner like ...3CAC fling, 2D, 5B > 5C 6A >623C.... You can do stuff similar to this in CS2 as it is, but it's fiddly as hell.

[TagerTime]

Don't forget 2D has almost no pushback now. in all the csx videos tager uses 2D alot. the tactic i see them use is to have the opponent block 2D them follow up with 5A. i don't recall anyone able to escape the 5A once they blocked the 2D unless they instant blocked it or back dashed. is 2D safer on block now?

Edited November 16, 2011 by TagerTime

[Isorropia]

2D has always been good on block. Basically, since it moves across the screen, the further you hit it away from, the later in the active frames it will connect and the greater frame advantage it will have. So if you did a 2D point blank they could escape, but if you hit it from far away it's probably around +3-5f advantage for tager. (In theory you can get up to 8f advantage, but you probably won't get it to hit on the very last active frame.)

[Manta]

Also has a ~4k meterless Combo on the entire cast on counterhit now. Taking the form 2D (CH), 3CAC fling....

Was also thinking that there's probably some really silly Fatal combos we can do now (Go Go gadget theory fighter):

(Mag) 2C (FC), j.2C, 5B > 5C > 6C > j.2C, 5B > 5C > 6A > 2C > AC, (AC), 3CAC fling, j.2C 5B > 5C > 5D

And if you have sparkbolt and heat, you can replace the final 5D with:

...SB > 6C > MTW > TB

[Osuna]

Or you could 5C MTW. MTW is still faster than 5D I think. Depending on location and such.

The real problem I found was that such a combo takes so long that you'd have to have stacked some mag beforehand to have a shot at it. For example if you did this out of a GF the 3C AC would probably work, but if they have even 2 seconds of time to run down that mag clock before you get the fatal, then certainly the combo would have to be cut short.

To this end it is very worthwhile to look for and think of ways to add mag mid combo. Preferably not with SB, but whatever gets the job done. Combos go a lot longer in general and use the mag in more parts. On top of it all we get a lot more damage and heat with mag, which could change, but it makes mag management a lot more important than before.

That said improvising on the only 2C I got that was fatal and not bursted immediately, was 3.98k so I think we'll get good damage on it, generally speaking.

[Manta]

There's always the 2C (FC), j.2C, 5B > 5C > 6A > AC, (j.C), j.B, 5C > 6C, j.2C, 5B > 5C > 5D method of doing things without mag. Not sure if the combo scaling would allow such a late 5C > 6C though.

[Isorropia]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVLDTxOgxe4#t=5m10s

So, starting with ~88 meter, we can get 6.8k from a punish situation (coulda added TB on the end), if we have magnetism. Good times.

[Hecatom]

good times indeed

[Tong]

Lol wtf, 150 Heat combos for 88 meter. Not even Blood Kain can pull off shit like that.

Edited November 18, 2011 by Tong

[A.X.I.S.]

possible 6.8k off 150 heat...yeah they deserve every last bit of it.

[BURI]

Lol wtf, 150 Heat combos using for 88 meter. Not Blood Kain can pull off shit like that.

Tager can GF RC into MTW > TB in CSEX. True Story.

Bitch pulls meter out of thin air now.

[Manta]

Actually, the theoretical damage from that combo is actually ~7.3k.

The combo shown was done from a guard crush, which forces a 90% proration on the combo (With the exception of the minimum damage MTW +TB at the end).

[A.X.I.S.]

7.3k is the highest Tager ever did in BB.

If what you say is true manta then that would be fantastic.