chzchan Posted May 14, 2014 Posted May 14, 2014 Spent the last 4 hours doing double Psycho Crusher CH combos because I will never be able to do them again in a few hours. Going to miss them even though I only ever get to use them maybe once in a hundred fights.
chzchan Posted May 14, 2014 Posted May 14, 2014 So.. anything I can do with the 6C change? Have a harder time confirming into mugen combos? Cancel into special moves you would have already been able to cancel into using inputs with 7, 8, or 9? Be much less safe when doing 6C > jc blockstrings?
Monarch Posted May 14, 2014 Posted May 14, 2014 That's.. disappointing. Let me be the first to exclaim my happiness about the new 421 command, this is how it should have been. But I'm forever going to get the wrong move because I keep wanting to do 421C.
BatousaiJ Posted May 14, 2014 Posted May 14, 2014 I used to use a lot of 6C > j.D > j.C shenanigans but probably not going to do that anymore.
TheGreatReptar Posted May 14, 2014 Posted May 14, 2014 6C>214B/214D/22D/22B all frametrap. 6C>Crush Trigger has a 7 frame gap. 6C>63214C or 6C>623C/6CC can be a really stupid strike/throw mixup. Mostly just gimmicky stuff of of it. Also, from that Kuresu video everyone was talking about earlier, he did BBB>5D>6B(w)>5A as a fake fuckup frametrap. Need to look into it more. Seems to frametrap with 5C sometimes, but only off better starters. Tager can also A buster it.
Monarch Posted May 14, 2014 Posted May 14, 2014 So I'm assuming the 22D>6C>j.5C stuff is obsolete and frankly not worth it?
Airk Posted May 14, 2014 Posted May 14, 2014 6C>214B/214D/22D/22B all frametrap. 6C>Crush Trigger has a 7 frame gap. 6C>63214C or 6C>623C/6CC can be a really stupid strike/throw mixup. Mostly just gimmicky stuff of of it. Also, from that Kuresu video everyone was talking about earlier, he did BBB>5D>6B(w)>5A as a fake fuckup frametrap. Need to look into it more. Seems to frametrap with 5C sometimes, but only off better starters. Tager can also A buster it. Wait, what? 6C > 22B is a frametrap? That's AWFUL. Freakin' 5B > 22B is gapless. o.o In fact, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you're probably wrong, because it makes no sense for 6C> 22B AND 6C > 214B to frametrap, because there's 7 frames of difference in the startup of those two moves.
mAc Chaos Posted May 14, 2014 Posted May 14, 2014 now that haku has been crippled beyond recognition i need a new top tier mainwhere should i start with tsubaki
zaeris Posted May 14, 2014 Posted May 14, 2014 You can always play izayoi Hakumen + tsubaki What more could you want
D.R.F. Posted May 14, 2014 Posted May 14, 2014 You can always play izayoi Hakumen + tsubaki What more could you want You would have all the justice
Airk Posted May 14, 2014 Posted May 14, 2014 now that haku has been crippled beyond recognition i need a new top tier main where should i start with tsubaki Wait what? There is so much wrong with this post I don't even know where to start. Well okay, I will start with the fact that mAc made it. :P
Zouf Posted May 14, 2014 Posted May 14, 2014 You'll never want to do 6C > command grab. If the opponent just hit the barrier you will whiff and get heavily punished. Anyway, 6C has been nerfed, period. I don't see why you would want to do anything but jump cancel into back airdash. Nobody will mash after 6C if they know a little about this matchup.
TheGreatReptar Posted May 14, 2014 Posted May 14, 2014 If they won't mash though, why not crush trigger them?
Errol Posted May 14, 2014 Posted May 14, 2014 if the gap between ct is still only 7f that is usable. 7f meaning a 7f jab trades, or a 7f jab wins? Either way there is some stuff that can be done here. will generally be rather easy to confirm whether they are barriering the 6c or not. if they do barrier, it might be quite hard to mash out of ct. if they don't barrier, should be able to command grab a fair amount, and/or catch jumpouts a fair amount. there is a little bit of a bonus in that you can do some stuff after 1 hit of 6c and other stuff after all 6 hits, etc.
TheGreatReptar Posted May 14, 2014 Posted May 14, 2014 7f trades. I'll double check stuff later, but Noel barrier blocking then mashing 2A would always result in a trade for me, while barriering then mashing 5A won. It makes me sad I could never get 6C>CT consistently in 1.0. It'd have a 1 frame gap with the extra blockstun from 1.0..lol
Errol Posted May 14, 2014 Posted May 14, 2014 but noel 5a is 5f and noel 2a is 6f if 6f trades, that is really good. only way to do 6c>ct consistently in 1.0 was to buffer the jump before the first hit, so 6c(1)>CT was the only practical route imo. doesn't matter now.
BatousaiJ Posted May 14, 2014 Posted May 14, 2014 Isn't the point you don't want to CT them when you confirm that they're barrier blocking since it'll do nothing? I would say if you confirm that they are not, you should CT them instead. Sure, if they're mashing like crazy people, they can poke out but you can train them with command grab counter or even 214/22x shenanigans.
Errol Posted May 14, 2014 Posted May 14, 2014 my thought process is that if they are barriering, CT is a good way to safely continue pressure. Also, just cuz they are barrier'ing 6c doesn't mean they will barrier the CT. there is a relatively large gap (time wise) there, and sometimes people hold barrier and sometimes they don't. after 6c is also a place where they might be trying to do something. if you don't ct when they are barrier'ing, you have no safe route to continue doing anything. you gotta try to frame trap, RC, etc. if you can see they aren't barrier'ing, command grab has pretty high odds of working unless they start looking out for it. but if CT basically frame traps... Also, destroying barrier can also be a goal of using CT. if you know they can't barrier you can really mess people up in all kinds of ways.
Airk Posted May 14, 2014 Posted May 14, 2014 Did we establish that 6C > 22B is somehow a frame trap? @_@ 'cause that makes no sense to me at all unless you are holding 22B or something.
TheGreatReptar Posted May 14, 2014 Posted May 14, 2014 Noel's 2A traded after barriering Errol, so 7 frame moves will trade. Still need to double check to make sure I'm barriering the last hit and stuff. All my testing was pretty quick last night before I hopped on trying to learn new Izayoi stuff.
Errol Posted May 14, 2014 Posted May 14, 2014 yeah, not as good as I thought, seem to be able to somewhat easily win with 8 frames. i think it is 9 frames for trading on normal block.
zaeris Posted May 15, 2014 Posted May 15, 2014 barrier block does add 1+ frame of block stun anyway 6c command throw and 6c ct are good option to mix around since it would discourage mashers if you time it properly and ct on block is 0 or +1 cant remember but you drain their barrier in which tsuabki has a better AA game so it works out as well. 6c delAy C lol rc if its block the gimmicks are everywhere
Airk Posted May 15, 2014 Posted May 15, 2014 CT is "+2" on block, but really +3, since if they blocked it, they barriered it.
Errol Posted May 15, 2014 Posted May 15, 2014 followup options are really not great because, 5b is a crappy 10 frame move. if you go for 5a and get a counter hit you get almost nothing. if you go for 5c and they blocked, that kind of sucks too. basically if you don't input perfectly you're going to lose to ragna's mashing 5b, and the risk reward is all fucked up. >> Tsubaki it is pretty decent after 6c. I did not use command grab tho cause the person I was playing was jumping a lot. which ct catches pretty well.
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