[CP1.1] Tsubaki Yayoi General - Gameplay Discussion

[Kiba]

Still looking for the 214B going through 5B video ;_;

Don't worry about it, it's cool but thanks anyway.

EDIT: Unless that's what's meant with 3CC FC can now be followed up without rapid cancelling but I always thought this basically said 3C(FC)C.

Yup. Well I changed it slightly anyway, and again forgot to mention that 3C© FCs too so thanks.

[Airk]

EDIT: Unless that's what's meant with 3CC FC can now be followed up without rapid cancelling but I always thought this basically said 3C(FC)C.

Well, based on that video and what we've seen elsewhere, we can now follow up 3C FC or 3CC FC without spending meter, so this is good.

[Daedron]

Indeed.

Still looking for the 214B goes through stuff video.

No, I won't give up! I know it happened on the railroad stage...and that's about all I remember ;_;

EDIT: I give up

Edited March 15, 2013 by Daedron

[Surf]

Good luck hitconfirming the j.B hit though lol.

If you mess up and it gets blocked you're pretty much boned.

Just have meter to RC if so. I still want to believe it will be really effective. Rising j.D > j.B is most likely just a little more than or exactly 26 frames if done as fast as possible. Same amount of frames as her overhead

[Airk]

Just have meter to RC if so. I still want to believe it will be really effective. Rising j.D > j.B is most likely just a little more than or exactly 26 frames if done as fast as possible. Same amount of frames as her overhead

I think you just explained why you don't see more of it - it's pretty much a gimmick for occasional use when people are blocking the rest of your mixup options, and it's unsafe/hard to hitconfirm, and leads to roughly the same amount of damage you'd get from landing a normal overhead?

I guess it IS a good question as to why you'd do this sort of thing after 6C instead of a different j.Cable normal, but otherwise?

[Surf]

I think you just explained why you don't see more of it - it's pretty much a gimmick for occasional use when people are blocking the rest of your mixup options, and it's unsafe/hard to hitconfirm, and leads to roughly the same amount of damage you'd get from landing a normal overhead?

I guess it IS a good question as to why you'd do this sort of thing after 6C instead of a different j.Cable normal, but otherwise?

Odds are when the j.B hits you'll be very low to the ground, and of course you'd hit them crouching. They would be in hitstun long enough for you to dash up 5A. And if they do block it you'll either be slightly + or slightly -. Im still seeing it similar to Swallow Moon. And thats not a gimmick. Shes just not as low to the ground as Platinum is because she cant TK j.D

[Airk]

Odds are when the j.B hits you'll be very low to the ground, and of course you'd hit them crouching. They would be in hitstun long enough for you to dash up 5A. And if they do block it you'll either be slightly + or slightly -. Im still seeing it similar to Swallow Moon. And thats not a gimmick. Shes just not as low to the ground as Platinum is because she cant TK j.D

Unless they reduced the landing recovery on j.D (which is something we're pretty much going to have to wait for the mook to verify or not) then this is SUPER unlikely, verging on the impossible. j.B is only level 2, so hitting a crouching opponent with it gets you 16 frames of hitstun. Then you fall (lets say for 2 frames, since you are pretty low to the ground), then you immediately get 9 frames of landing recovery, leaving you with only 5 frames of hitstun left. That's not enough to land a dash 5A. If you fall for 1 frame, then I guess it might theoretically be possible, but it's so tight with so many places to mess up that it doesn't really seem feasible to me?

OTOH, if they DID reduce the j.D recovery, then it becomes more plausible, but I don't think we know yet?

[Daedron]

I'm not sure if you can even do j.D > j.B > land > dash 5A.

In Extend you can do it with j.C but it's extremely tight to the point it's just not worth it (and j.C is easier to confirm than j.B so the j.214D followup is a bit more practical anyways).

Regardless, from what I've noticed in videos the landing recovery seems to be the same.

[Surf]

I suppose

[Airk]

Regardless, from what I've noticed in videos the landing recovery seems to be the same.

Curious how you're judging this, because from my perspective, 9 frames of invisible recovery looks a lot like frames of invisible recovery. =/

[Daedron]

Unless every Tsubaki that does something like j.D > j.B/j.C > land then stands around for a bit before finally doing their 5A I believe I can make that judgement, yes :V

Edited March 15, 2013 by Daedron

[Surf]

Well ok, j.214D can be used to confirm. 5A wont work. Wither its a gimmick or not that good or anything of the sort, i simply mentioned it because i felt it could have been some use. Im trying to come up with as many useful things with our tools as i can. Not saying to use it alot or even use it at all. I was just sharing. If i think of something I usually post it here, Im not the type to hold possibly useful information to myself. Especially when we have to work harder for our wins.

[Airk]

No one is criticising, I don't think, but you kinda phrased this one like "I wonder why no Japanese players are doing...." so we were discussing that.

[Surf]

Yes, I know.

I wonder why Konan doesnt want to be recorded anymore. He was kind of disappearing at the end of EX as well. His last was showing pretty much was that session where he killed everyone. Sad that hes not but its up to him so cant say much.

[Airk]

Okay; NOT CP related (though might work there.), here's my latest ghetto tactic. (All tactics from me are ghetto. -_-)

When doing a 5BB > (2BB >) 5CC > 6BB > 236C > stuff combo on a croucher, if you deliberately "drop" the combo after 236C, you seem to be plus...just enough, and you're right up in their face. 5A after this will tag jumpouts during startup, and will beat any almost non-reversal your opponent wants to try - their only option is to block and let you do mixup (or I guess they could CA or something). As best as I can tell, this beats Rachel's Cat chair, but not Tager's 360A, which means you're probably about +2 or +3. I've found myself using this a lot when I'm midscreen, because going right back into pressure at the cost of a couple hundred damage seems better than our various other midscreen 'oki' options. OTOH, it does keep you from getting a knockdown and charge. You can also just go for a throw. And of course if you've got an opponent who is mashing reversal all the time, you can just block.

Note that this does NOT appear to work on a 236A on a standing opponent - they recover before you do and can mash you out. Still, it's been handy for me, and I've never seen anyone else do it, so just putting it out there.

Edited March 17, 2013 by Airk

[Surf]

I would sometimes do that after the 214C during the crouching combo. Just run in 5A. But I don't really do it much anymore. 236C looks to be the better option anyway

[BatousaiJ]

Yes, I know.

I wonder why Konan doesnt want to be recorded anymore. He was kind of disappearing at the end of EX as well. His last was showing pretty much was that session where he killed everyone. Sad that hes not but its up to him so cant say much.

I have three theories on this.

1. He doesn't want his tech getting out and letting people know his playstyle unless it can't be helped. Common thing among top players.

2. He doesn't like getting recorded as it makes him feel nervous and he feels like he doesn't play as well.

3. Series of coincidences.

I would wager it's one of those reasons or a combination of.

[Surf]

As I was typing out the message I was thinking the first 2 reasons you said are most likely why.

[Daedron]

Tsubaki's DP is Inferno Divider now it seems.

I swear that shit gets used like 20 times per round.

Then again, the reward with 2 charges is really good, 2.8K + 1 free charge and return to neutral or you could just opt to chase after them if you don't want that charge.

Makes me wonder what the use of D DP is though, guess it's just combo fodder during Mugen now...

[Airk]

Tsubaki's DP is Inferno Divider now it seems.

I'm sure it's not as good. I still want to know why Inferno Divider has foot attribute.

I swear that shit gets used like 20 times per round.

Then again, the reward with 2 charges is really good, 2.8K + 1 free charge and return to neutral or you could just opt to chase after them if you don't want that charge.

Yes.

Makes me wonder what the use of D DP is though, guess it's just combo fodder during Mugen now...

Hoping the mook will shed some light on this, but I am TOTALLY expecting them to have not changed the D DP at all, because frankly, I have no faith in ASW making changes in a holistic fashion. They probably saw: "Problem. Tsubaki's DP sucks. Solution: Improve C DP. Problem solved." Which is true, as far as it goes, but is a terrible way to actually build a character, but we see countless little things in Tsubaki's movelist that suggest that this is exactly how they roll.

[Airk]

A question, actually.

Bonus proration - it's clear that using the same move only gets you the bonus proration once, but does using multiple moves with bonus proration add both bonuses?

[Daedron]

It should if they didn't fuck it up.

3CC and the Mugen 3D bonus in Extend also stack.

[Airk]

It should if they didn't fuck it up.

3CC and the Mugen 3D bonus in Extend also stack.

Great, thanks!

[Daedron]

Doubt it's useful though, [4]6D and 3D's seem king.

[Errol]

you're not talking about the mugen bonus which is specifically noted in the translation to be only once