Accent Core: ABA Discussion

[Helter Skelter]

Everytime, I attempt to air-to-air or air-to-ground, my friends Robo-Ky. I get a j.S from him. It seems to beat everything. Does anyone here, have any suggestions?

[Kenji-Koto]

Try j.D it seems to do good with timeing and it that dont work try Orbs, even if you get hit the orbs will still come out

[kuma]

Hey. I am a scrub who is trying to pick up A.B.A. I'm doing fairly okay, except that I have a friend that plays Venom sometimes, and plays him super defensively. He basically sets up balls and sends them off at different speeds until I come near him, then attacks me with an overhead or 2D, runs away to the other side of the screen, and starts over. I don't have any trouble getting to him with other characters (Bridget, Faust, Ky, a few others), but with A.B.A. I'm pretty much lost as to what to do. Any advice?

[Kenji-Koto]

her FB (236d) the slide one will get you over there pretty easy, it not very tourny uselable but it should do fine for this problem, just use FB slide get behind him and then do a keygrab combo, hope that helps

[kuma]

I really doubt it will, but I'll try it. I haven't been using FB slide much because it usually results in massive failure (e.g. the opponent throwing me immediately when I finish, or using a counter-hit on my keygrab afterwards). I don't really have trouble getting into Moroha, since he almost always IADs back right away, giving me a chance to bloodpack, but then the balls start coming, and he's on the other side of the screen. Jumping in means I either attack or block. If I attack, he counters it and runs, if I block he does a string of moves then runs while I'm getting out of my block. If I come in on the ground I can get close to him, but I can't actually get to him. For example, I've tried Danzai, but by that time I've been hit by a ball, so my armor is gone, and he can ping me and run. I'm not close enough to do low dust, and if I use 2H he counters and knocks me out of it. All I can think of is FB Danzai, but he knows the timing and backdashes, and starts setting up again.

[Moroha]

I don't understand all this FB Slide hate, it's mad good. If your opponent is expecting it, that means you might have the space and time to dry bloodpack just because of the THREAT of the slide.

Anyway..

Danzai vs. Venom is at most times in the match a bad idea. He's got a bunch of moves that will hit multiple times, combined with any balls on the screen, you'll just get hit. Venom will attempt to zone you out with balls, then when you get close, knock you down and start his pressure game. (Reversal EX Danzai might be an option ;p).

What you need to do is be as patient as you can, and create a favorable situation for you - that is, one without any balls on the screen and you vs. Venom in a poking match from your f.S range. The first step is getting about three to four character lengths away, where if he attempts to set another ball, you can just murder him for it on reaction. If you can get to your f.S length, even better. The worst situation for you to be in is knocked down vs. a Venom, since his lockdown game isn't fun to deal with. Conversely, if you knock him down, he's in a really bad spot - especially since Venom has no reversal attack.

If I come in on the ground I can get close to him, but I can't actually get to him. For example, I've tried Danzai, but by that time I've been hit by a ball, so my armor is gone, and he can ping me and run.

You might have to jump / IAD over some balls, but also remember ABA's got a super fast dash too. Run up Danzai against a defensive Venom is just going to get blocked. If you get to a range where that Danzai could be blocked or backdashed, don't throw out a Danzai. Throw out a 5HS -> 1 Hit Rekka or 2D -> 1 Hit Rekka, and work from there.

So patience -> get into an optimal poking range -> pressure -> profit. Patience is most important, since he has the tools to keep you out for a while. Just remember, you only need to land one hit to potentially jack the match. He needs more. If you get that one hit, Venom will be at around 50% HP or less, and dealing with A.B.A oki.

[kuma]

Thanks, that's really useful information. I think I can at least understand how to get in at him now. Just out of curiosity, are there any aerial moves that can get past Venom's 6H, or at least clash with it?

[Kenji-Koto]

and there you have it moroha strikes again with killer strats ^^ as for the 6H, try her j.H i dont vs. alot of venoms so it could be a bit messed up but i think it may work

[Moroha]

Thanks, that's really useful information. I think I can at least understand how to get in at him now. Just out of curiosity, are there any aerial moves that can get past Venom's 6H, or at least clash with it?

Good question, I'm not sure. j.H is generally you're all around best bet. I'll try to remember and test that out at our weekly tournament tonight. Regardless, the more I play A.B.A, the less I try to make my entrance from the air, and the more I've tried to be a ground rock. Even though j.H is an excellent jump in, it can (obviously) still get beaten by anti-airs. I much prefer to start my pressure strings on the ground, and THEN take it to the air with an IAD or something somewhere in the string, or go to the air on knockdowns. (Still, it's worth testing your opponent and his respective character's ability to anti-air you; jump in j.S, j.H, or j.D can lead to big damage.)

And oh, since this IS the A.B.A discussion, just thought I'd bring to light how absurd A.B.A's throw is. Take Sol's normal throw for instance. It's pretty shit. His command throw, however, does really good damage - but you've got to do that input. A.B.A's throw - no extra input required - deals pretty decent damage for a throw too - when the person has a normal guard gauge. Next time you're fighting against chipp/dizzy/etc, try cranking up the guard gauge and throwing. :D :D :D

(Of course, this isn't new news, and yes, the throw CAN be broken - but it's definitely something worth reiterating, especially to new ABA players that lurk around here. ;p)

That is all.

[The Burricane]

And oh, since this IS the A.B.A discussion, just thought I'd bring to light how absurd A.B.A's throw is. Take Sol's normal throw for instance. It's pretty shit. His command throw, however, does really good damage - but you've got to do that input. A.B.A's throw - no extra input required - deals pretty decent damage for a throw too - when the person has a normal guard gauge.

Order-Sol is another example of a char with a great normal throw. However, you've got to be near a corner in order to stick them to the wall and follow up on it. A.B.A.'s throw can be followed up anywhere on the durn screen. Therefore, it's definitely worth learning a few follow-ups.

On an unrelated note, how safe is using meaty 6H as oki? (Provided they have < 50% tension, of course.) In my experience ,which is admittedly fairly casual, it mainly punishes people who attempt to backdash because I'm fairly far away, or at worst it's usually blocked and I can JC it.

[Moroha]

On an unrelated note, how safe is using meaty 6H as oki?

It clashes with SRK's. I'm not sure about Sol's, definitely Ky's, if you time it correctly. If they just block, you can then proceed into Rekkas, or IAD afterwards.

[......]

Can aba still do her old 421H loop from slash? Or did her new loop replace it? How do the two loops compare to each other in difficulty/damage/mixups/when it's doable, etc? I also noticed she can't do her old midscreen relaunch anymore since jH spikes them now. Any replacements for that? Also, is the 236D force break(blood ball) very useful?

[Moroha]

Orb Loop > Butt Loop generally speaking.

Taken from the ABA 101 thread:

ABA has two main loops in AC, both which are obviously done in the corner. The first one is new for her in AC, which she can do out of groundslide, and an accurately timed jump off other hits such as EX Danzai and corner throw.

(generally dash jump,) j.S, j.HS, j.D, Orbs.

If you're in the corner, depending on your opponent's weight/hitbox, your positioning, and how far into the combo you are, this can be repeated. If you're in the open, you can FRC the Orbs and do it again. If after the orb / land portion of the loop, you are close to the corner and your opponent's body is close to the ground but not on it, you can keygrab -> OTG keygrab, which you absolutely do. It's super easy on Potemkin, so you can start there to learn it. Try 236S, 46S, 63214S FRC, dash in, (corner) 6H (1hit), j.S, j.HS, j.D, Orbs, land. Keygrab before he hits the ground, then OTG keygrab for a free Moroha refresh without consuming any packs.

Her second loop is from /, the old school Butt Loop. It's not as damaging as the Orb loop, but you'll have more opportunities to pull it off.

5S 2S Butt (421H).

or, 5K, 2S Butt.

or, 5K, 6P (1 or 2 hit), 2S, Butt.

If you have no tension and land a 5S near the corner, you can combo into a 2H launcher into 2x Butt Loops if you wanted. You can loop after an ID, a throw, groundslide, CH 2S, CH Orbs FRC, etc. You'll eventually recognize your opportunities when you see them. An advantage of the butt loop is with 50% tension, you can RC the Butt into Orbs. Since ABA is still carried toward the opponent by the 421H momentum, if you use Orbs right on top of the other guy, you'll hit with both of them for serious damage, and you can generally either land and keygrab -> OTG keygrab or 2S sj.K sj.S sj.HS Keygrab. Try this on someone.

(Corner) 2H, dash in, 5S, 2S, 421H. 5S, 2S, 421H, RC, Orbs, land, 2S, sj.K, sj.S, sj.H, sj.D.

[Necrosis]

FB fireball is amazing for pressure, just randomly throw it when you start losing distance and run in and keep the pressure on.

[Kurumster]

Moroha has an insane A.B.A. I did fine in casuals, then he destroyed me when it came down to the real tournament. LAWL. Then again, I am a month and a half noob. You're REALLY good though with your pressure game.

[Tage*Proto]

Hmmmmmmm Moroha I can't wait to meet and play you . Congrats on doing so well at SE-R.

[why_suffer_]

any moroha vidz?? from that event?))

[Moroha]

Thanks Kurumster, I appreciate it. I'm not entirely sure what place I got in singles..I lost to FlashMetroid and Kumiho. I think I got like somewhere between 13th and 7th.

Casuals, as with the bulk of all players, were strong. This was the farthest I had travelled for a tournament, and my nerves were in full effect when shit was on the line so forgive garbage decisions like RUN UP DANZAI LOL, doing the wrong combos, and also having a stupid amount of dropped combos. SER2 was TOO HYPE! I recorded 3 of my MMs before I ran out of camera space. Sadly my MM against Boss Slayer was not recorded, that was easily my best and most comfortable one, and it would've been a good ABA exhibition for you guys. Oh well.

The State vs State was also recorded, I have a few matches in there so when that's posted I'll check that out. I need to learn how to fight Bridget, Jais got the best of me there.

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=sephzer0

Me vs SilentShinobi, Alphakami, and MajinSSJ6Goku

Again, forgive the scrubbyness pls :<. My ABA will be scarier than ever at NEC! Looking forward to seeing you there, TageProto.

[why_suffer_]

thx for link. no offence but i think you use 5s 2hs (1 hit) into rekka tooo often. =)) good gaming. i play 100 times badder

[Tage*Proto]

Just saw the vids, nicely done . One thing I did notice. After the second rekka, count on people to shake out. This might just be my preference, but since it's not guaranteed just do the third Rekka into whatever IMO. I liked your Moroha mode a lot, but that color is shitty . j/k, you played really well against Anji also, I think he is a big problem for ABA. Again nicely done.

[Moroha]

Yeah, I've got a class in an hour I need to get ready for and go into the vids a little bit more later, but to address some stuff; WTF Halloween ABA is tight! Get out of the forums. ;p I switch up between Dio ABA (Purp Key Pink Hair), my old Slash ABA (Black key red hair), Pink ABA, and Halloween ABA. You can have all the rest. Kugler I think wants to keep his blueberry ABA (Reload HS) ;p I like to give me opponent 'tests'. One of them is the second hit rekka test. If they don't bother to shake out of it, I will absolutely take the recombo. Second hit recombo into 2H into 2x Keygrab is fantastic. If they DO shake out, I'll have them back in blockstun continue pressure, and won't recombo again - I'll just do the third hit and go from there. However, I was a dumbass and disregarded the fact that Majin shook out of it like every time I did it. Young (Kumiho) pointed this out as well. As far as using 5S 2H (1hit) Rekkas too often, what do you mean by that? If you mean off connected 5S, doing 2H immediately afterwards gives me an extra hit to both confirm a block or hit and combo appropriately, while at the same time giving me access to combos for every level of tension (Tensionless-2H launch; 25% tension, 1Hit 2H Rekkas FRC, etc) The only problem I've had is sometimes if I'm at max range 5S the 2H won't connect, where I should have gone straight into rekkas. Don't worry about offending me man, I've been playing ABA since the day Slash came out but I'm still new to travelling and the hype of fighting games. As I said, this was my first real out of area tournament. I've gone to plenty of MD/Northern Virginia monthlies, and I run casual weeklies at my college, but this was an entirely different ballpark. I'll take any criticism. ABA vs Anji is now in ABA's favor, or at least even. It was pretty gross in Slash, but he has to work to knockdown now, so it's not so bad. Those Fujins going thru my f.S I think in my first match against the Anji really threw me off at first. I'm pretty sure I dropped my ID combo on Anji every time, and I don't think I did a single dash jump j.S mixup (2K vs JC j.S etc) in any of my seven MM's outside of Boss Slayer's. lolol. Edit: And oh yeah, I really, REALLY need to work on my matches vs. Potemkin and Jam. Jam is very winnable for ABA, I'm just inexperienced still, but goddamn, Raekwon's Potemkin is a fucking machine.

[Zoogstin]

The reason why potemkin is such a bad matchup for ABA, besides all of the tools he has to knock you down, is that fact that you have to go to him. ABA doesn't have the necessary tools for turtling. Rushdown characters in general have a hard time with Pot. You're just gonna have to poke and hit confirm crap. That's all you can do really.

[Tage*Proto]

Moroha, I do have a honest question for you though. How did it feel in normal mode going against those guys? I noticed that you didn't spend a whole lot of time in normal mode, and was wondering if you felt forced into moroha or if it was just anxiousness. Thanks.

[Moroha]

It honestly depended on who I was fighting. In State vs. State and 3v3, sometimes you're afforded time to guess if your opponent will try to be passive or aggressive vs you at the start of a round. Obviously normal mode is armed with options for both of these stances. In singles however, you have no such luxury; you simply have your guess at the start of a match (HUGE) and a burst (ALSO HUGE). The more I play, the less I like bursting (blue) in normal mode. It's rarely a guaranteed safe transform anyway. The way I play ABA, if I see an opportunity to pack I'll usually take it. I've seen ABAs like Combofiend and Damian who will pressure in normal mode and go for that keygrab. The quick transforms were not anxiousness..but the dropped combos were. ;p

[MacArthur Blunts]

Moroha is the best ABA ever as tagged by anyone who got fucking raped by FB Danzai