Rhiya Posted March 4, 2012 Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) Also, lab time with the record feature is telling me mixing between empty jump>low and jump>j.D high doesn't work. The desummon/summon isn't long enough to make the high hit the same time as the low. Damn shame. EDIT: Doing j.D twice in one jump seems to work though. That is, the j.B in [3C> j.D j.D j.B] seems to hit close enough in timing to the 3C in [3C>empty jump 3C] that I can't block it on timing alone. I don't know if doing two summons/desummons would be too obvious, though Edited March 4, 2012 by Dusk Thanatos
Judgemastar Posted March 4, 2012 Posted March 4, 2012 Approach tech: 214A>9D6 while Ignis is returning You get an airdash covered by 6D Down side to that is anyone can mash 2A and they'll hit her out of 214A. Maybe it's just the people I play with but they're always mashing and they're always using reversals. Which is why I'm so afraid of it. Also, lab time with the record feature is telling me mixing between empty jump>low and jump>j.D high doesn't work. The desummon/summon isn't long enough to make the high hit the same time as the low. Damn shame. EDIT: Doing j.D twice in one jump seems to work though. That is, the j.B in [3C> j.D j.D j.B] seems to hit close enough in timing to the 3C in [3C>empty jump 3C] that I can't block it on timing alone. I don't know if doing two summons/desummons would be too obvious, though I don't quite understand what you're saying? Can't you easily get hit out of j.D, j.D? And do you only do this if you land the 3C?
STenSatsu Posted March 4, 2012 Posted March 4, 2012 That feels way too obvious. Like even more than j.d>normal as Tsubaki and nobody even tries that. Also, wouldn't you just do low airdash instead of j.dx2 since that gives you a j.c also and either option doesn't change whether Ignis is out or not. (Which would be the best part about single j.d is being able to put ignis away for the start of mixup/combo.)
Rhiya Posted March 5, 2012 Posted March 5, 2012 Down side to that is anyone can mash 2A and they'll hit her out of 214A. Maybe it's just the people I play with but they're always mashing and they're always using reversals. Which is why I'm so afraid of it. That's a problem with 214A, not what I proposed. Also, hitting Ignis out of this requires them to be at the edge of 214A's range, iirc. I don't quite understand what you're saying? Can't you easily get hit out of j.D, j.D? And do you only do this if you land the 3C? Watch the primer I posted on jump-in low/airdash high mixup. J.DD (I'm going to start saying j.DD now because both should be in one jump) replaces the airdash in that mixup, basically. 3C is the only Relius normal you can jump cancel on block, which is why I used it to explain. As per it being unsafe, I thought I already explained somewhere else that pressure isn't free, and that if you expect people to actually get hit by your pressure, you're gonna need to take risks. This applies double to Relius, since he doesn't have good gatling pressure. That feels way too obvious. Like even more than j.d>normal as Tsubaki and nobody even tries that. Also, wouldn't you just do low airdash instead of j.dx2 since that gives you a j.c also and either option doesn't change whether Ignis is out or not. (Which would be the best part about single j.d is being able to put ignis away for the start of mixup/combo.) -It's not that obvious, actually. Use the record option and try to block between 3C>empty jump 3C and 3C>j.DD j.B. It's harder than you'd expect. -If you're saying it can be disrespected for free, yes, it requires you to condition your opponent to block first. Relius can do this pretty easily. -Airdash is better for the mixup but only usable in the corner, whereas this is available anywhere on the screen. -J.C and j.B have the same prorate, so they're even there. j.C does 210 more damage, BUT it also isn't jump cancellable; you have more options after a blocked j.B than a blocked j.C. -It not changing whether Ignis is out isn't bad, since having Ignis out in pressure is generally preferable to not having her out. If you have the respect for j.DD, though, you could only do one j.D for a summon or desummon.
STenSatsu Posted March 5, 2012 Posted March 5, 2012 You can low IAD midscreen last I checked. Yeah, I meant it can be disrespected for free rather than getting blocked. Doesn't seem like he could do this easily in this specific considering you unsummon Ignis though. I rather meant you get j.bc instead of just j.b land. I suppose that could be better or worse though. Didn't say it was bad, just that seemed like the only plus side to me for using this technique over low IAD. You're right about the ability to JC j.b though so there's some merit there.
Rhiya Posted March 5, 2012 Posted March 5, 2012 You can low IAD midscreen last I checked. Yeah, I meant it can be disrespected for free rather than getting blocked. Doesn't seem like he could do this easily in this specific considering you unsummon Ignis though. I rather meant you get j.bc instead of just j.b land. I suppose that could be better or worse though. Didn't say it was bad, just that seemed like the only plus side to me for using this technique over low IAD. You're right about the ability to JC j.b though so there's some merit there. I just checked this [low AD midscreen, instead of j.DD] in training using record. The problem with low AD midscreen is that you have to jump, fall, and then airdash, because if you don't fall, you cross up the opponent and whiff. The fact you have to jump and then fall, THEN airdash makes the timing of the j.B in 3C>jump fall AD j.B different enough from the timing of land 3C in 3C>empty jump land 3C that it's completely free to block.
STenSatsu Posted March 5, 2012 Posted March 5, 2012 Fair enough. I'll try it out. Sorry if I came off as dismissive btw, was more just discussing what looked like downsides to me but rereading my tone seems off lol.
Judgemastar Posted March 5, 2012 Posted March 5, 2012 -It's not that obvious, actually. Use the record option and try to block between 3C>empty jump 3C and 3C>j.DD j.B. It's harder than you'd expect. -If you're saying it can be disrespected for free, yes, it requires you to condition your opponent to block first. Relius can do this pretty easily. -Airdash is better for the mixup but only usable in the corner, whereas this is available anywhere on the screen. -J.C and j.B have the same prorate, so they're even there. j.C does 210 more damage, BUT it also isn't jump cancellable; you have more options after a blocked j.B than a blocked j.C. -It not changing whether Ignis is out isn't bad, since having Ignis out in pressure is generally preferable to not having her out. If you have the respect for j.DD, though, you could only do one j.D for a summon or desummon. Is there a trick to j.DD? I'm having a tough time landing the (falling) j.B or j.C.
Rhiya Posted March 5, 2012 Posted March 5, 2012 Is there a trick to j.DD? I'm having a tough time landing the (falling) j.B or j.C. They need to be done really quickly, literally as soon as you can and then as soon as you can again.
Chazmobile Posted March 5, 2012 Posted March 5, 2012 I apologise but I don't quite understand what's being discussed here, is this a mixup involving JC 3c on block into an instant j.dd>j.b or empty jump low because the J.dd seems hella obvious and unsafe. Sorry for my ignorance here but could someone quickly elaborate? XD
Rhiya Posted March 5, 2012 Posted March 5, 2012 I apologise but I don't quite understand what's being discussed here, is this a mixup involving JC 3c on block into an instant j.dd>j.b or empty jump low because the J.dd seems hella obvious and unsafe. Sorry for my ignorance here but could someone quickly elaborate? XD Yes, and yes. And I already explained that it's not as obvious as you'd think and it will obviously only work if you have respect, same as IAD>high or empty jump low
Chazmobile Posted March 5, 2012 Posted March 5, 2012 Yes, and yes. And I already explained that it's not as obvious as you'd think and it will obviously only work if you have respect, same as IAD>high or empty jump low Alright thanks man, I'll give it a try a bit later and see if I can dig anything up.
Rhiya Posted March 5, 2012 Posted March 5, 2012 Also, think of it like this: How many times has someone reacted to you summoning or desummoning Ignis in the middle of your blockstring and blown you up for it? Not many, in my experience
Kurushii Posted March 5, 2012 Author Posted March 5, 2012 Also, think of it like this: How many times has someone reacted to you summoning or desummoning Ignis in the middle of your blockstring and blown you up for it? Not many, in my experience Yea, i've done it even from 2A spam into summon and still kept pressure multiple times. It's not safe but not often punished.
TD Posted March 5, 2012 Posted March 5, 2012 how do you do crossunder combos midscreen? whats the max damage you can get midscreen without using a shitload of ignis meter.
Kurushii Posted March 5, 2012 Author Posted March 5, 2012 how do you do crossunder combos midscreen? whats the max damage you can get midscreen without using a shitload of ignis meter. If you are speaking of the air combo crossunder I haven't practiced it in ages. It seemed very character specific on timing. For midscreen damage off a normal starter i'd say 3-3.5k for 3k meter if ignis is out, if not around 5k cost. I updated the combo thread a bit over the weekend so check it out.
Siefer Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 Is there a trick to j.DD? I'm having a tough time landing the (falling) j.B or j.C. I'm not sure if I'm doing this correctly (Duskthanatos, can you post a vid showing exactly how it's supposed to look?) but I think I know where you're messing up. The trick is that you have to wait for the recovery on the 2nd j.D to finish before you press j.B. You are probably pressing j.B too early and thus nothing is coming out. It honestly looks absolutely ridiculous to me, but Dusk isn't wrong on the timing difference between empty jump 3C and just j.B off of this. You should also be careful of doing a blocked 3C too close to the opponent as you can jump over them with the j.B whiffing. You don't actually have to do it as fast as Dusk is implying, but you do want to get the first j.D low, and the next j.D as soon as you can.
Rhiya Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 No recording equipment, unfortunately. I could try to use my awful laptop webcam, but I don't know how well that'd turn out.
Judgemastar Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 Shoutouts to recording with awful webcams That's such a nice mix up. But I still wanna see it used. Also, couldn't you empty jump j.DD? like, j.DD, land, 2B? I think it'd make the j.DD scarier
Siefer Posted March 7, 2012 Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) That's such a nice mix up. But I still wanna see it used. Also, couldn't you empty jump j.DD? like, j.DD, land, 2B? I think it'd make the j.DD scarier ? Yes, that is the very premise of the high-low mixup...if all he did was j.DD-j.B, then that wouldn't be a mixup, you just block high. The point of this is to create a true (well, as close as possible) 50-50 situation where you can't react to what is going on, but instead have to guess (yomi) which way to block. Since you can react to Relius' overhead, and there is enough of a timing difference between late AD j.B and empty jump, they are thus less effective. It looks silly, but when you do it right, the timing difference between the high and the empty jump low is fairly tight. Of course, this is all under the presumption the opponent respects you enough to allow you to do this. EDIT: Thanks for the vid Dusk. I guess I'm doing it right. Edited March 7, 2012 by Siefer
Judgemastar Posted March 7, 2012 Posted March 7, 2012 ? Yes, that is the very premise of the high-low mixup...if all he did was j.DD-j.B, then that wouldn't be a mixup, you just block high. The point of this is to create a true (well, as close as possible) 50-50 situation where you can't react to what is going on, but instead have to guess (yomi) which way to block. Since you can react to Relius' overhead, and there is enough of a timing difference between late AD j.B and empty jump, they are thus less effective. It looks silly, but when you do it right, the timing difference between the high and the empty jump low is fairly tight. Of course, this is all under the presumption the opponent respects you enough to allow you to do this. EDIT: Thanks for the vid Dusk. I guess I'm doing it right. Just saying, since he only did empty hop 2B and j.DD, j.B. But yeah, that was a dumb question.
Rhiya Posted March 7, 2012 Posted March 7, 2012 Oh god. So, 6D IAD combos are actually piss easy Do 6D immediately after 3C. Even if you forward airdash, you just run into them. You can even do 5b>3c>6D AD j.BC land 6B>aircombo
STenSatsu Posted March 7, 2012 Posted March 7, 2012 I find it easier to wait a sec before hitting the 6d personally, but ya, they are pretty easy. I gotta remember to add the 6b myself though. Keep forgetting that.
VonFox Posted March 7, 2012 Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) Just thought I'd share something random I tried out today. When doing the 5B > 5C(2) > 236C > 214A > 66 > 6B > ji.236C > 2C > 6C > 4D > 3C corner combo, you can squeeze in a 5C(1) before the 6B pickup and add another 80 damage or so. Edited for clarity. Edited March 7, 2012 by VonFox
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