YukiBlue Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 Im having trouble with the basic 6B > j.Bx2 > j.C > j.236C > j.214B combo. Is there a specific range or timing to it? (Specifically the j.Bs) I can seem to hit it a bit better with a delay but w/e
Kurushii Posted February 21, 2012 Author Posted February 21, 2012 Add a 5C(1) or 5C(2) after the 6B to help you some. Or do what some people do and add a j.A to the start of the Air Combo.
Toasty Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 So today I found out (the hard way) that Relius' Astral will whiff at point-blank range...
Kurushii Posted February 21, 2012 Author Posted February 21, 2012 So today I found out (the hard way) that Relius' Astral will whiff at point-blank range... Yeaa, makes a funny AA though lol. (Did the other night on stream) :3
YukiBlue Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 Does ID beat corner unblockables? I'd try but I'm already in bed
GenoWhirl Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 I'm enjoying Relius but right now I'm having trouble with his neutral, like a lot. I only know to use 214A and stuff and when I finally get a hit I always forget to use a 3C ender lol but I'll get there
Kurushii Posted February 22, 2012 Author Posted February 22, 2012 Try to get comfortable using his 5B, 2B, and 2A normal starters. His 5B is better than most people think. Using Ignis specials as your only entry really limits yourself and will get you no where in high level competition. I started my Relius style playing him like Lambda, send out long range then entered in, then after playing better players and getting it punished I had to step up my neutral game with normals greatly. Also ending midscreen hitconfirms into 3C > 214C, which will either punish a bad tech into 3.7k combo easy or give you huge crossup/mixup potential. Also I love 2C AA midscreen, and Back Throw when my back is in the corner. I swear so much of my damage comes from those two situations.
Kurushii Posted February 22, 2012 Author Posted February 22, 2012 Threw together a Relius matchup chart. Note this is my opinion from my almost 600 player matches with some of the best EC players of NA. If you have watched my stream you know what kind-of players hop in to fight. This is early NA so subject to change as I become more familiar with the match and both sides improve. Mu, Lambda, and Valkenhayn I haven't had too many matches of so they are the most likely to move up or down. [table=width: 500, class: grid, align: center] [/td] [td] 50 45 40 50 45 55 30 30 X 40 45 40 45 50 30 50 50 55 55 [/table] Hell: Carl, Arakune, Litchi Very Hard: Hakumen, Mu, Lambda Hard: Valkenhayn, Taokaka, Platinum, Noel Normal: Ragna, Hazama, Rachel, Jin, Tager Good: Bang, Tsubaki, Makoto
Chazmobile Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 snip That looks really sad. I was just wondering, could you please give me a brief insight on why the Lambda matchup is so hard, I would have thought it may have been at least even.
Kurushii Posted February 22, 2012 Author Posted February 22, 2012 That looks really sad. I was just wondering, could you please give me a brief insight on why the Lambda matchup is so hard, I would have thought it may have been at least even. Maybe I need more experience in it but playing against Toan's Lambda felt like a straight up hill battle for me. Her long range pressure keeps you locked out from doing Ignis specials as a entry. Her movement speed can easily make your entry game with normals be very difficult to get in. Air-to-Air she wins clean with j.C. Some of Lambda's ground setups can be avoided with Led Ley but the timing is very strict to avoid completely and punish. If you can get her into the corner early it's not bad but getting those starting hit confirms seems difficult.
unsanctifier Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 That isn't where Mu belongs, nor Tager.
Kurushii Posted February 22, 2012 Author Posted February 22, 2012 That isn't where Mu belongs, nor Tager. Tager is 5:5. Ive heard of your complaining of it and honestly I don't see it. Ive played Axis and we both agree it's even. What Mu players have you faced and give your opinion on it?
TD Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 litchi as 70-30? :o whoa that cant be right? its much easier to punish litchi fo trying to use the staff to zone now. plus with ignis out you can counter her long range normals with 236a 2d/6d. same for lambda, l just feel that you need to be -very- patient with her. 214a is a great approach in this match because of its speed and projectile invul (countering her 214d on reaction). once you get her pinned anywhere its very difficult for her to escape. l just gave small bits due to limited typing from my ps3 - imo l think these matches are close to even. just a little thought to consider.
Kurushii Posted February 22, 2012 Author Posted February 22, 2012 What Litchi you played TD with your Relius? Cause St1ckbug and I have played LK countless times and complain of the matchup. Next time time I get you in the stream with him I want you to show me how it's done cause I just get punished repeatedly. For Lambda same thing, who did you play? Im not taking in random Lambda x in the matchups. I have blown up random Lambdas but that was because they werent good or didn't know how to deal with Relius. So you saying to be defensive the whole time until she does a charge? Hmm that'll alittle too passive for my liking but ill give that a shot next time I go against Toan.
Toasty Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 I think the Valk matchup might be just slightly harder than you listed, but I wouldn't say as bad as Litchi or anything. I feel that Valk has a superior poke game, and his maneuverability makes it extremely difficult to lock him down. Not to mention his insane wolf mixup that is incredibly hard for anyone to deal with, and his damage is very good. I've been blown up for throwing out a 214A/B at a seemingly safe range from his wolf airdash shenanigans into a big combo. I feel that I'm adapting to the matchup a bit better though, so I'll have to see if even more matchup experience changes my opinion on Valk, but there's no doubt that the matchup is in Valk's favor imo. EDIT- I should note that I was playing one of the top players in the MI scene for this matchup, and I came from Valk in CS1/2, so I do have some base knowledge into how the character works.
Kurushii Posted February 22, 2012 Author Posted February 22, 2012 I know im most likely overrating Litchi cause it's LK but I still have MAJOR problems in that matchup. Valk yea I most likely underrated. I played him some in CS1 so im familar alittle but I think it was mainly certain players being alittle rusty with him.
Skye Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 Huh....Carl? I always thought that that match up was slightly in Relius' favor.
Kurushii Posted February 22, 2012 Author Posted February 22, 2012 Huh....Carl? I always thought that that match up was slightly in Relius' favor. After getting destroyed by Ivysaur I don't see how. O.o
Skye Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 Well, getting decimated by one of the best will do that to skew one's views of a match up. On the grounds that an even skill level between players was not present nor recognized, which is the foundation of determining match ups, I object your match up chart for Carl.
Kurushii Posted February 22, 2012 Author Posted February 22, 2012 Well, getting decimated by one of the best will do that to skew one's views of a match up. On the grounds that an even skill level between players was not present nor recognized, which is the foundation of determining match ups, I object your match up chart for Carl. There is only like three Carl's in NA. Im not going to grab someone that isn't good with him to do the matchup. If you know the basis of why it's in Relius's favor then please enlighten. :3
GenoWhirl Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 Given that I played only mostly angainst Mu and Lambda all day yesterday, I agree on that chart. Jesus if I didn't have 214b to punish some random 6d it'd be impossible (I suck as Relius right now so this doesn't count for much). I love 236Aing 214D even if it always gets me punished lol
Skye Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 Ignis' zoning and moderation. Carl shouldn't have a lot of time to set things up.
Urichinan Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) Here's a few combos I found in training based off of the Relius combo vid from his release: 5B > 6B > 6C > 214A > IAD > j.A > j.B > j.8D > Land > j.236C~214A > IAD > j.B > j.C > 2C > 4D > Step Back > 5C(1) > 2C > 236C~214A > 3C > Oki option= 4406 DMG, 51 MG, leaves Ignis with about 30% 5B > 6B > 6C > 214A > IAD > j.A > j.B > j.8D > Land > j.236C~214A > IAD > j.B > j.C > 2C > 4D > 2C > 236C~214A > 5C(2) > 2C > 4D > 3C > Oki option= 4529 DMG, 59 MG, leaves Ignis with about 25% (They tech quicker in this combo) EDIT: Also, I don't have a BB award! C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-COMBO BREAKERRRR! DOUBLE EDIT: I found the best version so far: 5B > 6B > 6C > 214A > IAD > j.B > j.8D > Dash > j.B > j.236C~214A > IAD > j.B > j.C > 2C > 4D > Step Back > 5C(1) > 2C > 236C~214A > 3C > Oki option= 4525 DMG, 52 MG, leaves Ignis with 30% It's a mix between the other two, it has the best corner carry out of them both, does only 4 less damage and leaves Ignis with 5% more life then the second one, and ends in a longer knockdown like the first. Edited February 22, 2012 by Urichinan
FR05tB1t3 BOB Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 Here's a few combos I found in training based off of the Relius combo vid from his release: 5B > 6B > 6C > 214A > IAD > j.A > j.B > j.8D > Land > j.236C~214A > IAD > j.B > j.C > 2C > 4D > Step Back > 5C(1) > 2C > 236C~214A > 3C > Oki option= 4406 DMG, 51 MG, leaves Ignis with about 30% 5B > 6B > 6C > 214A > IAD > j.A > j.B > j.8D > Land > j.236C~214A > IAD > j.B > j.C > 2C > 4D > 2C > 236C~214A > 5C(2) > 2C > 4D > 3C > Oki option= 4529 DMG, 59 MG, leaves Ignis with about 25% (They tech quicker in this combo) EDIT: Also, I don't have a BB award! C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-COMBO BREAKERRRR! DOUBLE EDIT: I found the best version so far: 5B > 6B > 6C > 214A > IAD > j.B > j.8D > Dash > j.B > j.236C~214A > IAD > j.B > j.C > 2C > 4D > Step Back > 5C(1) > 2C > 236C~214A > 3C > Oki option= 4525 DMG, 52 MG, leaves Ignis with 30% It's a mix between the other two, it has the best corner carry out of them both, does only 4 less damage and leaves Ignis with 5% more life then the second one, and ends in a longer knockdown like the first. are those midscreen or corner combos?
Arifureta Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) ^ Anything that involves catching up to a j.214A would require you to be near the corner when you threw it out. Also with the Carl matchup, I think the difficulty is in the fact that it's very hard to get out of sandwich pressure since Relius doesn't have very good poking tools at that range until he gets meter. Edited February 22, 2012 by Arifureta
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