Judgemastar Posted March 19, 2012 Posted March 19, 2012 I did, found a combo that was so coo', but prorated so badly that the opponent can tech in the middle of Vol Tedo... I found a similar combo where they can't but.... that's not as coo' as being able to tech in the middle of that DD... What's the notation? This question is not directed at Chaoschao, so, What is the deadzone for 214A? When should you 5B or dash 5B instead? Also, I have a problem with people just blocking 214A then doing dash 5B or something to hit me before I hit them. I try doing 214A closer but I THINK they're in the deadzone and it's extremely unsafe to do that. One more thing, deadzone from what I understand is the space where the attack is extremely unsafe and risky, right? I hope my question is understandable. Final Question, has anyone been grinding matchups? Been craving info from the matchup threads.
Rhiya Posted March 20, 2012 Posted March 20, 2012 honestly, match start distance plus a very little bit gives a good idea of the deadzone match start is really shitty for relius
Chaoschao222 Posted March 20, 2012 Posted March 20, 2012 What's the notation? corner 6B > j.C > j.C > j.236C > j.214B > land > 5C > 236C > 4D > 5C > 6B > j.C > j.C > j.236C > j.214B > land > 632146C > 632146D Also note that the "so coo'" part was just playful sarcasm, it's more silly nonsense than coo', I dunno enough about Relius and U. Relius to make legitimately coo' combos yet :c
OkiLoki Posted March 20, 2012 Posted March 20, 2012 (edited) Starter > 236C >214A > dash 5C(2 hits) >sj JB >JC >j236C >j214A > Falling JC> 5C(2 hits) > JB >jc JB > JC> J236C > J214B ~4550 dmg ~50 meter Break 1 primer upon tech and puts you right back into pressure. Starter > 236C >214A > dash 5C(2 hits) >sj JB >JC >j236C >j214A > Falling JC> 5C(2 hits) > 4D> JB > jcJb JC > J236c> J214B > Falling Jc > Land > Air Unblockable. ~4600 dmg ~50 heat You give up the primer break and the ground neutral for a blue ! setup. They will tech before hitting the ground but be in blockstun from the ignis 214B. The falling JC keeps them floating long enough for you to land. What do you all think? I'm pretty fond of them for the budget ignis meter vs damage and the plethora of setups afterwards. sorry for the inaccurate numbers but the heat/damage changes depending upon your starter. note the damage and meter gain is based on leading with a 5c(2 hit) to 3c. Other starters work just fine Edited March 20, 2012 by OkiLoki
TD Posted March 20, 2012 Posted March 20, 2012 l seen shadow do something similar, except he did some sort of bluebeat grab. sounds interesting though. how does it fare versus late/no tech? is it reversal/mash safe?
OkiLoki Posted March 20, 2012 Posted March 20, 2012 From what i have seen so far its pretty safe vs both. Late teching so far has proven to be a really bad option as the first combo allows you to place them in the air again for blue ! setups. As for the second combo if they tech late they take extra damage from the extra j214b hits and the falling JC into whatever shenanigans you feel like pulling since you have plenty if ignis meter left over.
St1ckBuG Posted March 20, 2012 Posted March 20, 2012 I'm going to stream a Relius Collab next week sometime, probably Thursday night. I'm going to go over what I think is optimal in terms of combos and Oki. I want people to watch and communicate with me to give me their opinions or tell me about something I don't know. I'd also want to have people link videos of Relius play so that we can watch them together and pick apart certain matchups/mixups/pressure/anything, or just clear up some confusion about something you've seen in a match. We're still missing a lot of info on this character and I feel like this would be a good step in the right direction. Thoughts? Would people help me out with this by watching and preparing links to videos?
OkiLoki Posted March 20, 2012 Posted March 20, 2012 I'd Love to help Stickbug. I think this is just what the Dr. Ordered. I've come to the decision that while Relius IS technically capable of 7k damage, he should always go for the sandwich meter light medium damage options. Consistent damage into consistent pressure. O and i would like to propose that we nickname the ignis meter the Sandwich meter. I'm under the assumption that when Realtalk Clover snaps his finger Ignis is making sandwiches like a good wife. He really knows how to treat a woman =O
Chazmobile Posted March 20, 2012 Posted March 20, 2012 I'd Love to help Stickbug. I think this is just what the Dr. Ordered. I've come to the decision that while Relius IS technically capable of 7k damage, he should always go for the sandwich meter light medium damage options. Consistent damage into consistent pressure. O and i would like to propose that we nickname the ignis meter the Sandwich meter. I'm under the assumption that when Realtalk Clover snaps his finger Ignis is making sandwiches like a good wife. He really knows how to treat a woman =O By turning her into a lifeless puppet right? Personally, I just stick to Wifey meter, and if she dies I tear up a little and inwardly whimper 'No Wifey, no!'
OkiLoki Posted March 20, 2012 Posted March 20, 2012 Well if i lose the match it was obviously due to malnutrition due to lack of a delicious sammich. Also I've recently decided that Relius' heat is so much better spend on rapids for snap canceling and on CA then on his distortions.
Andru Posted March 20, 2012 Posted March 20, 2012 I'm going to stream a Relius Collab next week sometime, probably Thursday night. I'm going to go over what I think is optimal in terms of combos and Oki. I want people to watch and communicate with me to give me their opinions or tell me about something I don't know. I'd also want to have people link videos of Relius play so that we can watch them together and pick apart certain matchups/mixups/pressure/anything, or just clear up some confusion about something you've seen in a match. We're still missing a lot of info on this character and I feel like this would be a good step in the right direction. Thoughts? Would people help me out with this by watching and preparing links to videos? I will watch~.
Rhiya Posted March 20, 2012 Posted March 20, 2012 I'm going to stream a Relius Collab next week sometime, probably Thursday night. I'm going to go over what I think is optimal in terms of combos and Oki. I want people to watch and communicate with me to give me their opinions or tell me about something I don't know. I'd also want to have people link videos of Relius play so that we can watch them together and pick apart certain matchups/mixups/pressure/anything, or just clear up some confusion about something you've seen in a match. We're still missing a lot of info on this character and I feel like this would be a good step in the right direction. Thoughts? Would people help me out with this by watching and preparing links to videos? FFFFFFF, I dunno if I can watch on Thursdays. I have a club that always runs late as hell. Still gonna try though EDIT: Question to the players. In my mind, Relius is shifting to an okizeme chara classification. He doing this in anyone else's head?
OkiLoki Posted March 20, 2012 Posted March 20, 2012 without a doubt. The sandwich meter is way too short for him to be the high damage explosive character we thought. His frametraps are still strong for the record, however i think they are more of a product of okizeme then the other way around. Medium damage sandwich light combos into what is shaping up to be extremely solid oki. I can dig it. I am OkiLoki after all.
OkiLoki Posted March 20, 2012 Posted March 20, 2012 I'm going to stream a Relius Collab next week sometime, probably Thursday night. I'm going to go over what I think is optimal in terms of combos and Oki. I want people to watch and communicate with me to give me their opinions or tell me about something I don't know. I'd also want to have people link videos of Relius play so that we can watch them together and pick apart certain matchups/mixups/pressure/anything, or just clear up some confusion about something you've seen in a match. We're still missing a lot of info on this character and I feel like this would be a good step in the right direction. Thoughts? Would people help me out with this by watching and preparing links to videos? Sorry for the double post but it occurred to me that since this is a brainstorming session about Relius shouldn't it be called a symposium?
Kurushii Posted March 20, 2012 Author Posted March 20, 2012 Also I've recently decided that Relius' heat is so much better spend on rapids for snap canceling and on CA then on his distortions. CA or 236236D reversals. I have to admit that wakeup 632146D into delayed 214B has won me too many rounds though lol. :3
Judgemastar Posted March 20, 2012 Posted March 20, 2012 What time is the stream gonna be on? I have work but I wanna watch since I have so many questions.
STenSatsu Posted March 20, 2012 Posted March 20, 2012 (edited) If you hit a corner combo and only have like 2-3k ignis left, an RC ignis regen combo is a great use of tension. Generally CA or punchy is best though imo. Also I definitely agree that he should simply take 4k-4.5k and get a good oki option rather than stuff like 6-7k 632146d combos unless it will kill. We could probably just use the video thread for links tbh. It's fairly up to date and all like 4 of the main Relius players are good. Edited March 20, 2012 by STenSatsu
St1ckBuG Posted March 20, 2012 Posted March 20, 2012 FFFFFFF, I dunno if I can watch on Thursdays. I have a club that always runs late as hell. Still gonna try though EDIT: Question to the players. In my mind, Relius is shifting to an okizeme chara classification. He doing this in anyone else's head? I'm probably going to start 9:30ish EST next Thursday. His neutral defines him. Sorry for the double post but it occurred to me that since this is a brainstorming session about Relius shouldn't it be called a symposium? Sure. Why not.
Rhiya Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 I'm probably going to start 9:30ish EST next Thursday. His neutral defines him. Hmmm. Interesting. Care to explain more?
St1ckBuG Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 I don't find his oki to be amazing (from personal experience): it's just a part of his game, not the focus of it, and I don't think he relies on it much in order to win. Sometimes you have to avoid oki all together just because of your resources, not because of match-up related specifics... though you could say this for almost all aspects of his game, but this is what leads him to be an average character (in my opinion). But I digress... His match-ups are fought through answers in neutral so that you can get in and do some damage and maybe keep them locked down and mix them up. I feel like if you can't win in neutral you won't win with him unless you get lucky. Don't get me wrong, oki still plays an important part, but I just don't think that when you look at Relius you look at oki: I feel as though you should be looking at his neutral, since that's where you'll decide matches. I know this is a pretty general statement since you could say that about almost any other character, but I'm not sure how else I could describe it. He just depends on the decisions made in neutral a lot more than other characters. If you make a good decision then you're the fucking man, if you made a wrong choice or read then you fucked up: enjoy blocking with your weak defensive options and big hitbox. Does this make sense?
Siefer Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) I agree with what St1ckbug is saying through my experiences. Another way to look at it is that it doesn't matter how "amazing" his oki is, if you're not making good decisions in neutral and you're being put on the defensive all the time, it's all for naught. A lot of Relius' success (or sometimes, the sources of his problems) is what he decides to do and is capable of doing at neutral in match-ups, especially in the more difficult match-ups (like Valk). If you watch the more consistent Japanese Relius players, they all make playing Relius look a lot easier than it actually is, and it's mostly due to their ability to control space and create opportunities to go in and start pressure. This is especially prevalent when they have to play against the better players. EDIT: I also find that Relius' most difficult match-ups are often the result of the lack of effective options he has available to him at neutral in his most comfortable ranges. Edited March 21, 2012 by Siefer
OkiLoki Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 I agree. Tho his oki is rather decent and i never discount a tool. Getting opponents to tech so you can restart pressure is the entire point of the combos i listed earlier for this very reason.
Judgemastar Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 What do you guys think of this... Assuming they block the 3C but... 3C, IAD, j.2D, 5B. Depending on the distance you're IADing out of your 3C will determine whether or not they'll have to block left or right. There are some problems with it but I'm finding it to be fairly effective. But yeah, I'm wondering if other people think that's effective or not. Also, sorry if this info has already been posted.
St1ckBuG Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 What do you guys think of this... Assuming they block the 3C but... 3C, IAD, j.2D, 5B. Depending on the distance you're IADing out of your 3C will determine whether or not they'll have to block left or right. There are some problems with it but I'm finding it to be fairly effective. But yeah, I'm wondering if other people think that's effective or not. Also, sorry if this info has already been posted. It works but it also comes with risk, as does almost every mix-up. I wouldn't be surprised if people could just up-back or 5A you out of it. People don't usually mash after 3C from my experience but yeah, just saying. It's good to run stuff like this occasionally but not all the time. You wouldn't want to get to the point where you're telegraphed with very large gaps in your pressure.
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