Jam Questions and Critique Thread

[Xeno]

That's it, just REALLY fast.

..what happened there, I didn't see a burst? He cancelled it before it was used ?

[Arvandor]

Yes, you cancel the burst into a faultless defense before the burst actually fires off, but you still get the invulnerability from it. It's pretty slick, I should practice it again =) I haven't really bothered trying since back in #Reload. I don't even remember the proper input for it now

[Luigi-Bo 87]

I actually tried to do it in practice today. I got no damn clue on how to do it.

[Xploit Neo]

I've been trying it out, and I think my problem is that I'm hitting the opponent too high up and they recover right when my animation finishes, and I have to dash buffer to hit the rest of it. And I believe it is where on the screen I am when I hit the opponent w/ FB that determines it as well. It's still a work in progress, but I'm getting there, thanks 1muvwndr.

[1muvwndr]

I actually tried to do it in practice today. I got no damn clue on how to do it.

If burst cancel was easy to do, Jam would be hands down god tier.

[Luigi-Bo 87]

^ True. KA2 makes it look easy though. Bastard. FBPB > Burst cancel anyways:lol:

[Bluewindz]

Any tips or help on the IAD backwards into 214K and have it come straight down with no arc? I am having a hard time pulling it off.

[excelence]

something like 21474k

[Hellmonkey]

214754K, like backwards Baiken iad tatami.

[Luigi-Bo 87]

I dunno. I can sj and do it. Like 2147, 6+k. You get a sj iad and should still have the 214k stored. I use this to do things with Millia sometimes, that's how I learned:eng101: EDIT- Damn:vbang:

[St1ckBuG]

Any tips or help on the IAD backwards into 214K and have it come straight down with no arc? I am having a hard time pulling it off.

When I'm on the left side of the screen I have no problem doing IAD > 214K. When I'm on the right side of the screen I do 21475K.

[Bluewindz]

Good uses for charged Gekirin and Kenroukaku besides combo videos in matches?

[xenophobian]

charged 214K mixup out of 236S~K, you can cancel the K bofre or after it is active, very nasty, but the enemy has to know the setup to fear it ...of course this leads to 2P/2K 2HS -> every kind of nonsense (on most of the cast) ...charged 623K is just utter shit in this game, if we could only make it got down like before...but with improved reg. 623K we don´t even need am i the only one that thinks the missing invul. on 632146HS and charged 236K suck ?

[Xkun01]

charged 214K mixup out of 236S~K, you can cancel the K bofre or after it is active, very nasty, but the enemy has to know the setup to fear it ...of course this leads to 2P/2K 2HS -> every kind of nonsense (on most of the cast)

...charged 623K is just utter shit in this game, if we could only make it got down like before...but with improved reg. 623K we don´t even need

am i the only one that thinks the missing invul. on 632146HS and charged 236K suck ?

Nope.

[EclipsingBinary]

am i the only one that thinks the missing invul. on 632146HS and charged 236K suck ?

Do you mean to say that the frame data is incorrect or that this is a porting mistake in the console versions? I know from personal experience that 632146H is not invincible from 1-10 (in the console versions) as the frame data says it is. I don't have access to an arcade cabinet to test this.

[xenophobian]

i mean in comparison to slash...632146HS has no longer throw invuln. and you can be hit out of the moment it goes active...not to mention that you are now -frames on block....it´s no longer the godlike super it was in slash and reload...really somehow lost its purpose...except you want to be a dick in combos ^^

[jRandom]

i've been playing around with 236S-P and was wondering if its useful in any way.....or should i just stop using it?

[xenophobian]

you can use it in blockstrings for a tickthrow or as a crossup on their wakeup...but you will get thrown first if people are used to it ! and you can dodge certain moves with it, but i have no frames or properties at hand and i´m too lazy to try myself what moves it is useful against, someone should make a list already !

[Digital Watches]

If you're magic, you can go for 236S-->236P, airthrow.

[1muvwndr]

236S-P has above knee invincibility, meaning you can go through a lot of stuff, but not all. A 2D will get you down, as will a low-hitting Venom's ball. Also, some moves with huge vertical hitbox (like Eddie's 6HS) will get you too. It has many uses for me, mainly based on mindgaming the opponent into expecting a FBPB. Even an opponent that knows the trick and has good reflexes will eat a teleport-throw if you manage to put some pressure on him and mix it with a S/HS/FB puffball. Standard mixup (though there are more and way better) is blockstring ending in 2HS into 236S-anything. But keep in mind that a char with a low hitting 2D (Sol, HOS, Venom to mention some) will hit you regardles of what you do after 236S. Maybe a quick 236S-236P foils his 2D but I haven't tested this.

[Luigi-Bo 87]

^ If you're quick, you can just do 236s~p and get the flip instead of the evade. I use this every once in a while for that occasion and sometimes crossup attempts

[1muvwndr]

Parry automatically parries all hits that happen on the same frame. Happens against Venom when he does some ball oki. I'm wondering what hapens if you do a parry on an high/low unblockable that hit in the same frame. That's the case of Eddie's j.S/pool UB and spit/FB drill UB. From what I've tried, you get to parry both hits if they happen in the same frame. The problem is that I cannot thoroughly test this because I have no Eddie player near me (the closest one able to do this is some 200km away) but from some matches I've played on a tournament it seems to work this way. Like I've said in vs.Eddie thread some time ago I escaped 3 out of 3 times the pool UB with parry and at least once the spit/FB drill UB (well, parried spit/1st drill hit and then blocked low the other 2 drill hits). Can someone test this?

[xenophobian]

lol, can´t parry low hits

[1muvwndr]

lol, can´t parry low hits

I guess I didn't explain myself clearly enough.

Situation 1: Venom throws 2 balls at you as a meaty oki. If you input reversal parry, you basically parry one of the 2 hits (it doesn't really matter which one), the other is parried automatically because they both hit in the same frame. No questions here, it works that way.

Situation 2: Eddie uses FB drill (low) and spit (overhead) as meaty oki. You input reversal parry. What happens now?

They hit you in the exactly same frame (meaty oki), so how does the game register your parry:

-as succesful (you parried the overhead) and therefore automatically parries the low hit because it hits in the same frame (as in situation 1),

- unsuccesful, because you parry the high but the low hit in the same frame ignores the parry

- unsuccesful because the low hit can't be parried and has some kind of "priority" over the overhead

In my case (if I remember the exact sequence) I parried the spit & 1st hit of FB drill and blocked the other 2 hits of the drill. And I did the same for the pool/j.S thingy 3 times so I'm pretty sure that my theory is OK. I'm just asking if anyone can test this more carefully.

[Hellmonkey]

When I tested earlier I got the priority for eddie's unblockables to be: normals>puddle/projectile (causes correctly timed puddle unblockables to hit with puddle due to them getting hit by the high->combo to puddle or blocking the high and getting hit by the puddle low next frame) projectiles (low and high) switch off back and forth each time you use them So you should be able to always parry a correctly timed iad/puddle unblockable but it really doesn't matter because you're still probably going to get hit by the low, unless parry has special properties that cause the low not to hit as well. I doubt parry will be successful if the game wants the low to hit first. update: Alright I tested it. For iad and puddle unblockable, you will always be able to parry it if it's timed meaty, but the low will hit and it seems impossible to act in between the parry and low (i couldn't get it at all). The only way to escape is to parry and block low the next frame, which is even harder than just changing your block in 1f so pointless. It is much easier to judge the distance from him and the puddle and reversal SRK or reversal backdash to escape, as one or the other is often an option. For the drill unblockable, like I said the game will alternate between which hit goes first. If the high goes first, parrying will prevent both the high and low from hitting, although if the low hit first jam will get hit. Keep in mind that Eddies will not always time it correctly so that one hit or the other is delayed causing you to get hit even if the priority is on the high hit, that the high hit is 80% proration so blocking low always ensures less damage taken, and that he may mistime the overhead to whiff but the drill will almost never do so.