GGXXAC+ Rebalancing, Features, and Overall Wishlist Thread

[xlolxlolx]

everyone in gg has the same hp(think it was like 400ish), just different guts and defense modifier, chipp eats shit cuz he has the worst defense modifer in the game, id have to say sol if you want mobility the nigger runs and leaps across the screen hella fast

Edited May 1, 2012 by xlolxlolx

[shtkn]

everyone has 420 life. everything else xlolololx is correct. check the wiki for details about the guts + damage modifier + life system

[destruction_adv]

everyone has 420 life. everything else xlolololx is correct. check the wiki for details about the guts + damage modifier + life system

Well, I know that, it's just easier to type low health than low defensive modifier (or would you say high defensive modifier its 130 right). They both amount to "die in fewer hits".

[Seku]

She's saying "Hyappo Shinshou" which is the name of the move. "Senri Shinshou" is the one that she dashes past you and comes back. The force break version is also "Hyappo Shinshou" though.

I think the only time a character gets specific voice sets is I-No v. Sol or Order-Sol, she'll use voice set C/boss voice set. ANYWAY.

I'm curious about what some good Bridget/Johnny players think their characters need, or why those characters are a lower tier. I just don't know enough about either of the characters to talk about how they can be brought up to match the other characters in tier.

I honestly think that lower tiers are "good" on their own, it's the higher tiers that needs little adjustments ( Eddie's stun modifier, Poti's-Ninja-Like-Invulnerability-Attacks, May/Jam's Damage to name a few)

And it's not like they need a mass nerf, I'm not sure how those nerfs would affect their gameplay but personally I would want them in.

[Star-Demon]

5H

6HH

HYAPPO SHINSH-

HYAPPO SHIN-

HYAPPO SHIN-

HYAPPO SHIN-

*Later...*

TEN

JOU

TEN

GA

YUI

GA

DOKU

SOOOOOOOOON

*shades*

"Star your Jam is scarier than your Baiken..."

((My Jam is Amateur hour...you're just getting rushed easier than Baiken cuz I like to play Jam offensively...))

I dare not take out my Jam at NL. Not even ready for that. I am far better at Baiken.

ON topic: Johnny does take big risks, but maybe he could get a small damage or defense increase. I want to give him a way to get coins off a command grab or something but there's no way to know how that'll pan out.

Eddie is Dumb.

Testament is Dumb.

May has too much Damage. She's dumb, too.

Jam might need less damage. Someone as bad as me shouldn't get 300 damage.

Edited May 4, 2012 by Star-Demon

[Amadeus46Art]

Jam's damage is fine. High, yes, but nothing Slayer can't do for 25 meter. Jam also has less range and defense than Slayer, making it harder to get that damage at a higher play level. Her damage is just...easy. No really tough combos, and her mix-up is good too.

Basically, at scrub level Jam is godlike, at intermediate she's ass, and at high level she's great. It just depends on how good your opponent is at spacing.

[M.Song]

5H

ON topic: Johnny does take big risks, but maybe he could get a small damage or defense increase. I want to give him a way to get coins off a command grab or something but there's no way to know how that'll pan out.

he can already get a coin off on a regular grab and already does a lot of damage

[Star-Demon]

he can already get a coin off on a regular grab and already does a lot of damage

I never noticed he ever got coins. Wow. Really? You gotta be trolling me. I would have noticed that in training mode...

[Hecatom]

he can already get a coin off on a regular grab and already does a lot of damage

...

how it comes that i never noticed that before? o_O

[M.Song]

do you guys mean ways to rebuild coins or land coins

cuz i interpreted it as ways to land coins

[destruction_adv]

do you guys mean ways to rebuild coins or land coins

cuz i interpreted it as ways to land coins

that would be really good for Jhonny, his throw would be like mugging the opponent and taking their money.

I think Eddie needs his stun modifier reduced, and some way to remove his unblockables, oh and maybe his 6k (that's the axe/scythe kick right?)could be slower.

[xlolxlolx]

removing eddie's unblockables altogether would be kinda stupid, what they should do is make little eddie a little less retarded and maybe nerfing drill blockstun

[destruction_adv]

removing eddie's unblockables altogether would be kinda stupid, what they should do is make little eddie a little less retarded and maybe nerfing drill blockstun

Why would removing unblockables be stupid?

[xlolxlolx]

why would you remove something that hes had in every revision of ggxx aside from slash

[destruction_adv]

why would you remove something that hes had in every revision of ggxx aside from slash

I don't know, but "because it's been there" isn't really too good a reason. If so I want Sol's dustloop back.

[xlolxlolx]

well.....its sorta logical to assume that unblockables should be possible when theres a character that can control another unit while they do their own thing.

but its pretty much one of the unique trait that eddie has and they just made it incredibly retarded in AC with the triple unblockable garbage, even if he loses his unblockables the way little eddie and drill frc works will most likely still give him tight semi-unblockables

[destruction_adv]

well.....its sorta logical to assume that unblockables should be possible when theres a character that can control another unit while they do their own thing.

but its pretty much one of the unique trait that eddie has and they just made it incredibly retarded in AC with the triple unblockable garbage, even if he loses his unblockables the way little eddie and drill frc works will most likely still give him tight semi-unblockables

Semi-unblockables are okay enough, but totally unblockable is still a little messed up. Of course, if they keep him from doing triple unblockables I'd still be happy.

[Hecatom]

eddie is fine as he is, they are part of his whole desing, takeing them from him would be non sensical at most

though if i could make a change i would change lil eddie to not rise the guard metter, you know treat him like a projectile instead of a physical attack, or at least some of his attacks

that or maybe make that the drill fb removes lil eddie from play and depletes the full gauge of lil eddie, like it used to be on previous games when the move wasnt a fb

Edited May 4, 2012 by Hecatom

[AKA]

Eddie's biggest problem is shadow hole and mach drill. If shadow hole launched, he'd still have unblockables but they would not lead to another knockdown without using sg Frc, and even then he couldn't set up another unblockable due to spacing. He would have to take his aircombo and not a shadow hole combo (stun, meter gain, another unblockable afterwards).

Mach drill should just not hit low. It prevents easy mode, reversal safe unblockable loops with half meter that do 300+ damage.

Aside from that, Eddie is fine. These nerfs would address the points people complain about the most. Realistically, Eddie is really hard to play. Tons of eddies can do all of the autopiloty trap mixup stuff, but get owned because their footsie and situational knowledge is ass and Eddie's defense is so bad that if he gets knocked down even once, it could be a wrap.

If any changes need to be made, it is to the lower tier characters. It is remarkable how hard it is to win (against the top 6 or so) with characters like I-no, Bridget, Johnny.

Edited May 4, 2012 by AKA

[Hellmonkey]

The only changes that I could imagine actually making would be related to meter gain. Lower the meter gain from the 'top 6' characters, specifically things like heat fist and badlands loop. As mentioned, these 'top' characters have weaknesses such as bad defense for Eddie, bad movement for Potemkin or bad range for Slayer.

It's not that the other characters don't have equally good-if not better alternatives to just doing big combos, but meter opens up way too many options for everyone in GGAC and if this mechanic was modified I don't think many people would complain too much.

Edited May 4, 2012 by Hellmonkey

[qwerty]

If any changes need to be made, it is to the lower tier characters. It is remarkable how hard it is to win (against the top 6 or so) with characters like I-no, Bridget, Johnny.

Refer to this post.

Johnny's worst matchups are easily Venom and Zappa, with Testament and Millia being bad but winnable.

The only changes that I could imagine actually making would be related to meter gain. Lower the meter gain from the 'top 6' characters, specifically things like heat fist and badlands loop.

I like this idea.

[AKA]

Refer to this post.

Johnny's worst matchups are easily Venom and Zappa, with Testament and Millia being bad but winnable.

Yeah, I mean I agree that Johnny isn't as bad off as a lot of people make him out to be. Maybe not I-no either because of her offense, but starting it and executing it well are extremely difficult. I feel like if you changed even a little bit about her, then she'd jump up like crazy. Of course I think it's ridiculous that people would even be afraid of that with a character like her, but that isn't the point. You see good I-no's winning all the time (like good Johnny's), so I don't really think those two characters are a problem. Bridget, however, truly does need help. He might be the only character in the game who needs it?

The thing about Johnny, Bridget, and I-no though is that their new AC stuff is kind of underwhelming. The fact they can compete at all (I still don't know about Bridget) is mostly a testament to the game's engine and the myriad of options each character has for dealing with things. Their options are still not as good as better characters, and I question the decisions made in balancing them for this game, but that's how the cookie crumbles I guess.

I like the idea of toning down meter gain on problematic moves for really strong characters. It makes them slightly less ridiculous and you don't end up messing with the finer properties of certain moves and risk upsetting anything major. Minor nerfs to top tier characters can be as problematic as minor buffs to low tier characters, and there's no way to know until the changes are out in the wild. Unfortunately even small changes like meter gain values are things I don't think we'll be getting.

It's a nice dream though.

Edited May 5, 2012 by AKA

[Hellmonkey]

I agree that minor nerfs can have as large of an effect as minor buffs, and that's why I'm apprehensive about too many people requesting balance changes without a completely new version.

The nice thing about this change to meter gain is that the 'top 6' characters can already combo/mixup without using their meter and rack up a lot of tension doing so. All of the other characters who have to spend tension on their combos need to find their meter other ways. The difference between getting to use meter on mixup/pressure/defense and having to blow it on FRCs is huge.

It's really hard for me to agree with placing Bridget into a weak category like this. I think it's just lack of exposure to really sick Bridget players due to high execution requirements. Bridget's movement and ranged options are very hard for some characters to deal with at a high level.

Edited May 5, 2012 by Hellmonkey

[reaVer]

Eddie's biggest problem is shadow hole and mach drill. If shadow hole launched, he'd still have unblockables but they would not lead to another knockdown without using sg Frc, and even then he couldn't set up another unblockable due to spacing. He would have to take his aircombo and not a shadow hole combo (stun, meter gain, another unblockable afterwards).

Keep in mind that if you would do that, the eddie meter will be refilling during that combo. So not only is Eddie getting 'free' damage, he'd be able to almost immediately summon little Eddie again. Personally I would consider this a huge buff to Eddie rather than a nerf.

Mach drill should just not hit low. It prevents easy mode, reversal safe unblockable loops with half meter that do 300+ damage.

300 damage against lighter characters, maybe, but I haven't seen ex-drill going over 200dmg against normal characters. Personally, I think that Eddie's outrageous standing with the rest of the cast has mellowed out quite a bit. I don't really have that much issues vs him anymore and I'm playing Order Sol out of all characters. I've seen Johnny and other bottom tier characters do great vs Eddies on Japanese streams as well. The only thing I still find really retarded is that Eddie's meter refills too quickly and that his little Eddie not only forces you to guard, but also chips your life when you're not faultless guarding(out of tension).

Aside from that, Eddie is fine. These nerfs would address the points people complain about the most. Realistically, Eddie is really hard to play. Tons of eddies can do all of the autopiloty trap mixup stuff, but get owned because their footsie and situational knowledge is ass and Eddie's defense is so bad that if he gets knocked down even once, it could be a wrap.

If any changes need to be made, it is to the lower tier characters. It is remarkable how hard it is to win (against the top 6 or so) with characters like I-no, Bridget, Johnny.

Again, I feel this has mellowed out quite a bit in the past few years. I personally don't have any real experience with these characters(these characters are not compatible with my will in the game), but everything considered, I have seen players that do really well with these characters and I don't feel that these characters should be touched.

[AKA]

Keep in mind that if you would do that, the eddie meter will be refilling during that combo. So not only is Eddie getting 'free' damage, he'd be able to almost immediately summon little Eddie again. Personally I would consider this a huge buff to Eddie rather than a nerf.

Eddie already gets a virtual free refill off of a triple unblockable (if they live). I am removing the third unblockable, and thus the 100% he will get in idealized setups. You're talking about something that already exists.

300 damage against lighter characters, maybe, but I haven't seen ex-drill going over 200dmg against normal characters. Personally, I think that Eddie's outrageous standing with the rest of the cast has mellowed out quite a bit. I don't really have that much issues vs him anymore and I'm playing Order Sol out of all characters. I've seen Johnny and other bottom tier characters do great vs Eddies on Japanese streams as well. The only thing I still find really retarded is that Eddie's meter refills too quickly and that his little Eddie not only forces you to guard, but also chips your life when you're not faultless guarding(out of tension).

Two separate mach drill unblockables (that lead into themselves) off of sweep (or CH gold burst) will lead to damage that high. There's no debate, because it exists.

Again, I feel this has mellowed out quite a bit in the past few years. I personally don't have any real experience with these characters(these characters are not compatible with my will in the game), but everything considered, I have seen players that do really well with these characters and I don't feel that these characters should be touched.

You'll notice that the nerfs to Eddie I suggested were in response to way less reasonable nerfs that other people are suggesting. I agree with you in that Eddie is not as much of a problem as he was before, due to the high skill ceiling on playing him, and the numerous matchup specific advantages other characters have come to enjoy over him in certain situations. I am not advocating nerfing Eddie.