Parallel Theory

[Hecatom]

original SRK thread

http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/parallel-theory-coming-to-steam-in-2013-hopefully.159913/

The full roster is not depicted here

Greetings everyone. Parallel Theory is a project my team and I have been working on since 2010 and hope to release by the end of 2013 on Steam. It is a 2.5D weapon-based fighter taking place on a fictional planet that resembles the colorful post-apocalyptic world of Enslaved. I've sent in an application to a very special Acceleration Program that can fund us and help us get to full production sooner, but I won't know if we're accepted until the end of this month. If we are accepted, then seeing this game in 2013 is pretty much a guarantee.

In the meantime however, I wanted to post some info here on SRK to get some feedback from the community, especially after all this talk about "fixing fighting games" and "how to change them for the better." While I don't exactly intend for Parallel Theory to be the answer to everything, it is my wish to make a very engaging fighting game that can appeal to the FGC as well as fans of other genres. I won't bog anyone down with story details and general game design. What I wanted to do was get straight into the fighting mechanics, which I am still finalizing, and with the help of this community, I am confident we can make a very fun experience to add to our library of fighting games.

What's the gameplay like?

If a comparison had to be made, PT would be a mix of Battle Fantasia's weapon-based combat with the speed and general mechanics of Skullgirls and Blazblue, as well as an emphasis on meter management and using meter for devastating combos like in KOFXIII. The game will feature 8 characters, with the option of 1-on-1 and 2v2 tag battles (Tekken Tag/DOA style).

Features?

While I am confident in most of the mechanics, any of them are up for debate. Any feedback and additions are welcome. Keep in mind this isn't a full list either.

• Basic backdash and running system (while a few can only dash)
  
• Universal Air Dashing (except for the grappler character we have planned)
  
• Burst System (more similar to Blazblue: CS and on, instead of GG)
  
• Chain System with 5-frame buffers (debating on making this lower because its a bit too generous and has more room for error)
  
• 3 Attack buttons with a 4th "Drive" button similar to BB
  
• 3 stock Hyper bar, 5 stock for 2v2
  
• Tagging Mid-combo costs 1 bar. EX specials cost half of a bar
  
• No OTGs. Once you hit the ground, you can either Ukemi, or fall hard and do a normal Wake-up
  
• 2 distinct control schemes, Modern Style and Classic Style

Modern Style and Classic Style?

Probably the most challenging (and controversial?) feature I wish to implement in the game. Modern Style is a control scheme that resembles Tekken and MK with Target Combos and 2 Attack buttons (Light and Heavy). Classic Style is your traditional 2D control scheme that uses the above-mentioned 3 Attack buttons. Those who use Modern Style will have access to all their character's attacks, while those who use Classic Style are restricted to the attacks that are assigned to A B C as well as Command Normals. It's similar to how Tekken characters were transferred over to SFxT, so you could imagine Tekken 6 Jin (Modern) going against SFxT Jin (Classic) in a match sort of. With PT however, normals in Classic are all taken from a pool of Modern Style animations, so whichever scheme you pick for a particular character, there are no exclusive animations. These are just control schemes, not Grooves, so just because you picked Modern doesn't mean you can only hop instead of jump like in Tekken. Both schemes have the exact same mobility options.

The main issue of these 2 Styles is balance. If a 3-hit Target Combo ends with a very strong attack that causes a knockdown, how balanced would it be if that last hit was actually a Command Normal in Classic Style where you did not have to perform the 2 prerequisite hits to execute it? Lots of different ways to deal with that example, so I'm curious to see what you guys come up with.

If my explanations for the control schemes weren't clear enough, I'll be glad to expand since it's a bit hard to put into words. This isn't all I have to post either, stay tuned for a post about Customizable Normals for Classic Style, which will of course require a different mode to play (similar to SCII's Versus and Special Versus Mode if you wanted to choose different weapons).

Readers can check the blog that was used as a supplement for our application, as it includes some details about the story and setting as well as a gallery of our progress,

http://ptheorydev.blogspot.com/p/what-is-parallel-theory.html

Thanks for reading!

leaving this here

[Star-Demon]

Also interesting - thanks.

Hope they have something to accommodate my pick flowchart:

Christmas Cake > Boobs > Glasses > China

Make me proud, whoeverthoseguysare.

[BURI]

That project smells like fun and roses.

I wish good luck to them, and hope that they know what they are doing, and hoping it to be a success - It's pretty hard with the nitpicky FGC...

That Modern/Classic style thingie is pretty out there, but sounds pretty good actually

[Starlight777]

I hope these guys succeed. The West needs more fighters of it's own.

I can't wait to see the character designs. I hate to say it but that's what draws me to fair amount of fighting games.

[bitCrusher]

hey there, Hecatom, thanks for sharing my thread!

and thanks for all the support guys. It's nice hearing positive reactions after all the "vaporware" posts I kept hearing in SRK.

By the end of the month, I will know if our game is being funded or not. If we are, we'll be getting a BIG BOOST in production and will be able to make a nice proof-of-concept for everyone to enjoy. From there, we'll either look for a full fledged publisher for additional funding, or start an awesome Kickstarter. Who knows?

I'm currently trying to find an official 2D artist, so any concept art you see in the blog isn't exactly final (the outfits are final for the most part however, since our concept artist makes some pretty damn cool outfits. But faces and hairstyles are subject to change). I'll update you guys periodically on our progress. Mostly likely, I won't be posting on SRK anymore though for various reasons.

[Hecatom]

no problem bro, i really hope that your project get the funds

[JohnGrimm]

Just saw that you weren't intended to post on SRK anymore, so I'm going to repost this here just in case. If you're going to include two different control types, one of them should not be handicapped. Trying to open the door to a variety of players is fine, but it shouldn't be at the expense of other players. Please do what you can to make sure that both control types have the same attacks.

[Blade]

Anyone else getting a Wild Arms vibe off those characters?

[furix]

No Blade, only you.

[SolxBaiken]

Yeah I'm not catching a Wild West theme at all, lol

But the game is trying interesting things, hope it all ties well together~!

[Blade]

No Blade, only you.

Except, ya know...it's a GUN, a traditional PISTOL.

...You guys, sometimes I gotta wonder if you play anything besides fighting games.

[Linear04]

wild west theme invented pistols

[bitCrusher]

Just in case anyone's wondering, the team is made up of 7 people including me. I'm the project lead/game designer/writer, I have a friend helping with game design, 3 guys doing the programming, a 3D modeler, and our 2D concept artist. I've also got a music/sound friend who's gonna come aboard when the project gets funded. We're trying to go for a NieR or God Eater style of sound, if anyone's familiar with those games.

Just saw that you weren't intended to post on SRK anymore, so I'm going to repost this here just in case. If you're going to include two different control types, one of them should not be handicapped. Trying to open the door to a variety of players is fine, but it shouldn't be at the expense of other players. Please do what you can to make sure that both control types have the same attacks.

Gah, you know what, thanks for saying this. I had something planned to balance the 2 schemes, but now that I think about it, I would just be handicapping Classic Style even further. So, here's what I'm gonna do: Have a modest moveset for all characters (I was originally going for Tekken-sized movelists) to make sure both Styles can do the exact same amount of moves. The only difference is execution. In the end, Modern Style is still gonna end up being the easier scheme, but since both styles can do the same amount of moves, it is totally different from say Normal Mode and Simple Mode in Marvel vs. Capcom 3.

What do you guys think?

Edited May 18, 2012 by bitCrusher

[SolxBaiken]

We're trying to go for a NieR or God Eater style of sound, if anyone's familiar with those games.

We're trying to go for a God Eater style of sound

God Eater

If you could capture the essence of such an amazing soundtrack then I would play till the end of time ; w;

Concerning control schemes; I've never been a big fan of having 2 different "types" especially when one is catering to "beginners", I just feel they cripple the experience for everyone, you aren't really learning anything by opting for the easier setup and some allow you to get away with silly stuff for little/no effort which can infuriate and turn the opponent off the game. You seem intent on keeping it and really there's not much advice to offer as this is a slippery slope subject.

Still I grow more and more interested in the project.

[furix]

Yeah, there really is no need for an "easy mode". Like, I am sure by now pretty much everybody can play fighting games. Fighting games have existed for around 20 years or more, so... I see no need for easy inputs.

[Delrian]

If you could capture the essence of such an amazing soundtrack then I would play till the end of time ; w;

Concerning control schemes; I've never been a big fan of having 2 different "types" especially when one is catering to "beginners", I just feel they cripple the experience for everyone, you aren't really learning anything by opting for the easier setup and some allow you to get away with silly stuff for little/no effort which can infuriate and turn the opponent off the game. You seem intent on keeping it and really there's not much advice to offer as this is a slippery slope subject.

Still I grow more and more interested in the project.

I still liked CT's option of one button specials, because it helped me get into the game (being my first 2D fighter). Don't like CS's beginner mode because it changes what all the buttons do rather than let you put off learning motions for a little bit.

Assuming there's going to be online lobbies, you could probably add an option for no "easier" control scheme or something, might (help) resolve what Soba's expecting.

EDIT: Got mixed up.

Edited May 19, 2012 by Delrian

[bitCrusher]

oh cool, someone familiar with God Eater, haha.

see, this kinda sucks because Modern is targeted towards 3D fighter players. but it just happens to be easier than Classic, and as a result, becomes labeled as an "easy" control scheme.

Would it be better to add some more attack buttons to Modern Style? I'm sure the reason why its being labeled as an easy mode is because there are only 2 attack buttons. I could do something similar to Mortal Kombat, which separates Punches and Kicks (4 buttons total) but still has Target Combos. This would at least make the control scheme less "effortless" while adding some depth at the same time.

[Delrian]

see, this kinda sucks because Modern is targeted towards 3D fighter players. but it just happens to be easier than Classic, and as a result, becomes labeled as an "easy" control scheme.

IMO, people who play 3D fighters don't need their own control scheme in a 2(.5)D fighter...

Would it be better to add some more attack buttons to Modern Style? I'm sure the reason why its being labeled as an easy mode is because there are only 2 attack buttons. I could do something similar to Mortal Kombat, which separates Punches and Kicks (4 buttons total) but still has Target Combos. This would at least make the control scheme less "effortless" while adding some depth at the same time.

I don't think it was the two attack buttons that made it seem like the "easy mode", it was the trade for motions like (presumably) 236X for being a followup to a normal (P->P is a bit easier to mash out... although you have that balance issue you mentioned in the OP since it's followup only...)

If you can find a way to do it well, that'd be great, but imo it's not a good idea...

[bitCrusher]

okay thanks very much for all the feedback. For now, I'm going to stick with having both Styles, especially since my programmers already got a nice combo tree system working. Once we get a tech demo completed, we'll let players test it out and see how things fair between the two Styles. The great thing is that even if things don't work out and we decide to have only Classic for competitive play, we can still use the Modern Style for the game's Quest Mode. I'll talk more about Quest Mode later, but you guys can always skim the blog to get the gist of things.

How do you guys feel about not having OTGs? I'm planning for the game to have Ground Bounces and Wall Bounces, but once an opponent is knocked down, your combo is gonna end. I haven't thought much about options on Wake-up yet besides waking up normally, or doing an Ukemi (like Street Fighter IV basically), but I am open to having a roll option.

[JohnGrimm]

How do you guys feel about not having OTGs? I'm planning for the game to have Ground Bounces and Wall Bounces, but once an opponent is knocked down, your combo is gonna end. I haven't thought much about options on Wake-up yet besides waking up normally, or doing an Ukemi (like Street Fighter IV basically), but I am open to having a roll option.

Ground bounces and wall bounces only are fine, as long as there isn't an extremely limited number of said moves or characters that don't have them have other options to extend combos. OTG's can make things tricky in terms of damage output, you might end up having one character doing a silly amount of damage off of throws or something that might lead to ridiculousness. One thing you could look into instead of OTG's are ways to hit the opponent before they touch the ground and keep a combo going, like say for instance a sweep that is special cancellable into a very fast attack that hits before the opponent touches the ground. Just an idea, or you can forget that entirely. Basically though combos with no OTG's would be fine.

As for rolls, please for the love of god make it so there is SOME way to punish rolls if you include them. Probably the worst thing you could do with a wakeup roll is make it completely invincible to everything, the person who got a knockdown shouldn't be punished by giving his opponent a free get out of jail card. I would suggest something like a KoF style of roll that is throwable on startup and fully punishable at the end of the roll (maybe make it a small window to punish) so that if the roll is guessed correctly it's not free, but it can still be used to escape certain situations.

[Blade]

Yeah, there really is no need for an "easy mode". Like, I am sure by now pretty much everybody can play fighting games. Fighting games have existed for around 20 years or more, so... I see no need for easy inputs.

I'd like you to meet most of the residents of Wisconsin who have never HEARD of Fighting games.

That said, easy inputs (if any) should just be an option like in BlazBlue...nothing too fancy.

[bitCrusher]

Some good points there. Using the KoF style of rolling for wake-up is actually pretty interesting. You can get grabbed out of a roll on start-up, but if the opponent tries to time a grab and you end up waking up normally, the grab will whiff and can be fully punishable. I'll definitely consider this. Speaking of grabbing, it's going to be a 2-button affair like Blazblue (or it can be assigned to an extra button). There will be green throws with small escape windows, but I honestly don't like the idea of purple throws and being able to grab/command grab someone in Hitstun. Unless someone thinks that's a good idea?

Also, aside from ground/wall bounces, there will of course be other options to extend combos. Such as launchers and staggers. Like any ASW game, I plan for everyone to play very differently

[JohnGrimm]

In regards to the control styles, is it not possible to have Tekken long command lists for both styles? I mean, the "Modern" style is two buttons, right? Obviously inputs would be like 1A 2A 3A 6A etc. command normal type inputs, but couldn't you do that for the "Classic" style as well? Maybe not as extensive for Classic since there's 3 buttons, so you could probably fit everything into a 4A or 6A command normal on every button. I don't see any reason why it can't work, the only thing that would realistically change would be that the "Modern" style would be more condensed and the "Classic" style would be more spread out.

[bitCrusher]

In regards to the control styles, is it not possible to have Tekken long command lists for both styles? I mean, the "Modern" style is two buttons, right? Obviously inputs would be like 1A 2A 3A 6A etc. command normal type inputs, but couldn't you do that for the "Classic" style as well? Maybe not as extensive for Classic since there's 3 buttons, so you could probably fit everything into a 4A or 6A command normal on every button. I don't see any reason why it can't work, the only thing that would realistically change would be that the "Modern" style would be more condensed and the "Classic" style would be more spread out.

this was sort of the plan from the beginning. But you can only do so much Normals/Command Normals/Special Moves for one character in Classic, so I don't think it would be possible to have every single animation you'd have in Modern Style if there were to be Tekken-sized movesets. Something along the lines of Soulcalibur-sized movesets would sound more appropriate.

My idea behind Modern and Classic, was that Modern would be much more "uniform" because of its focus on Target Combos, while Classic was more "freeform" as it allowed players to chain different normals together to make their own combos.

Edited May 19, 2012 by bitCrusher

[JohnGrimm]

There will be green throws with small escape windows, but I honestly don't like the idea of purple throws and being able to grab/command grab someone in Hitstun. Unless someone thinks that's a good idea?

Maybe you can make it so that purple throws only work in certain states, like a stagger state or something, so that the throw/continue combo mixup is still there, but there's more obvious points as to when it can happen as opposed to any point during a combo.