Eddie changes in GGXXAC+R

[Chazmobile]

Figured it may be a good idea to make a thread compiling the changes made to our favourite dead guy.

Changes (+ are buffs, - are nerfs):

-Bigger recovery on Drill Special (Warranted)

-{]D[+22D, 5P} doesn't combo anymore

-Nobiru can't hit sliding opponents (hitbox changed (?))

-6p nerfed (Most likely the stun modifier)

-Shadow gallery nerfed (Very vague, possibly the first hit is not a guaranteed knockdown if done too high?)

-Overall weaker

-Shadow gauge refill is slower apparently, no specification on how much slower

+Exhaustion gives us two whole shadow gauges and is cancellable. (This is really, really good IMO)

Some tweets from Ogawa on Eddie in AC+R:

'Eddie got weaker... it's just a bad first impression, but now I have a better grasp on the changes. The most obvious one is the Drill Special, its recovery got greatly increased, which influenced the combos after it a lot. On the other hand, FB Exhaustion is actually better, so there will be lots of changes (in the gameplay). The unblockables are still fine, thank you.'

'Damned Fang lost its FRC? Nobiru doesn't hit sliding opponents (smaller lower hitbox?). Mawaru Loop -> Shadow Hole Unblockable -> Invite Hell Unblockable still possible. Didn't test normals a lot, but didn't look like they changed a lot? I'd like to do more tests... ah, and I didn't win against an I-No lol; But it's still the first loketest, is that all....?'

Overall, I am very happy with these changes, they dumbed down some of his really abusable stuff like FB drill but surprisingly we managed to keep the pressure and unblockables we all know and love. The (incredible) buff to FB exhaustion will mean that our pressure will be even scarier for only 25% tension which is a very low cost for two whole shadow gauges. Seems like Eddie will still be a str.....

'At the moment: Eddie feels so strong and it doesn't feel like any character can win against him.' -Woshige [on +R]

We got this

Edited June 2, 2012 by Chazmobile

[dehumanizer]

Not sure if anyone else noticed, but eddie's Weiss summon (I think it's called or reload/slash summon) builds guard meter. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qsL_utcBgM @ 1:14 you can see the shadow buzzsaw move builds guard. This is how it was in reload. They nerfed it in slash to not build any guard to prevent (pressure -> jacked up guard guage -> 60% damage ).

[burningvigor]

You know I haven't seen an AC+R video where eddie wins. Is he really still strong, or are the players still not used to the new Eddie?

[Mr.Biscuits]

There's zero videos of the best Eddies, Ogawa, Isa.

[Jakestation]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJqwemvU3vk&feature=player_detailpage#t=211s here is eddie who wins, but isnt very good. Still pretty much only regular eddie in Mikado.

[Mr.Biscuits]

Mawaru takes less Shadow meter in the new patch. Now you can probably get extended blockstrings and combos. Now buzzsaw probably got stronger as well. I hope you can now build 25% with a string with enough time to do exhaustion and get double Eddie meter.

[RoBoBOBR]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=kuqtGgf6RUk&list=PLGHNoxbVRyOn9GTiCkxMMpz8-TAM5Bl4y#t=366s

Eddie sets up a command throw and then changes places with his shadow to continue pressing. Didn't see it in changes, even on jap wiki.

[zdravkelja]

Wow, I haven't seen that earlier. Another ex move. I wonder if he also has a fake version.

[Mr.Biscuits]

That move was displayed in one of the early loke test vids. As for the EX move, he had it in AC but it was garbage so you never see it.

[RoBoBOBR]

- K - active 4F -> 3F, recovery 8F -> 9F

- 6P - dizzy modifier x3 -> x1

- 6K - recovery 12F -> 18F, forces standing opponent into crouching state on hit

- D - start-up 24F -> 26F

- DAA - untechable 30F -> 20F

- 2K - recovery 9F -> 12F

- j.P - now prorates 90%, start-up 8F -> 5F

- j.K - now prorates 90%

- j.S - now prorates 80%

- Shadow gauge - length in points 750 -> 1000, refill time after full emptiing 376F -> 446F, after unsummon 143F -> 286F, can use exaustion (236D) to get to 2000 points

- Shoukougeki (AC shadow P) - recovery 11F -> 12F, cost 111 -> 151

- Mawaru (AC shadow K) - active frames 3(12)3 -> 1(14)3, recovery 30F -> 31F, cost 179 -> 241

- Nobiru (AC shadow S) - startup 9F -> 11F, active frames 10F -> 8F, recovery 22F -> 23F, cost 134 -> 181

- Shadow hole (AC shadow H) - block LF -> All, start-up 57F -> 30F, recovers gauge from frame 2, invincible from frame 20 -> 12, forced prorate 70% -> initial prorate 80%, removes OTG state, cost all gauge -> 1000 points

- Haneru (AC shadow D) - recovery total 36F -> 37F, cost 466 -> 621

- 22D - block LAx2, all -> LA, allx2, recovery 47F -> 62F

- 236D - not chargable, total 48F, restores 1000 shadow points on 13F, Eddie is in CH state during move, doesn't restore if Shadow Gauge is red

- Shadow Turn - 214P post summon, new move Eddie and shadow swap positions, total 18F, Shadow is fully invincible 1~16F, shadow appears on 16F, shadow can be used from 20F, costs 201 points (reduced in 1.10)

- Shoukougeki Weiss (RE shadow P) - new shadow move, 214P, 7F start, 2F active, 16F recovery, hitstop 6F, 20 damage, cost 121, block all, lvl 2

- Mawaru Weiss (RE shadow K) - new shadow move, 214K, 14F start, 29F active, 25F recovery, hitstop 6F, 16x3 damage, cost 301, block all, lvl 3

- Nobiru Weiss (RE shadow S) - new shadow move, 214S, 9F start, 12F active, 31F recovery, 40 damage, cost 201, block HLF, lvl 4

- Drill Special Weiss (RE shadow H) - new shadow move, 214H, 147F start, 36F active, 34x3 damage, cost 1000, block LAx2, all, shadow transforms in 13F, is a projectile, untechable time 29F, lvl 3

- Chudan Kougeki Weiss (RE shadow D) - new shadow move, 214D, 19F start, 16F active, 22F recovery, 40 damage, cost 201, block HA, lvl 2

- all weiss shadows have GB+ values

- Executor-X (j.236236S) - damage 70x2 -> 50,100, start-up 4+10 -> 4+7

~~~Jwiki:

- flight costs gauge

- P - hitbox smaller

- 22S/H - 522S/H input from crouch

- Nobiru - hitbox smaller, harder to connect on low-profile opponents

----

done by frame data comparison and j wiki info. Changes labeled as "Jwiki" could not be confirmed by DL ACR frame data.

Edited June 26, 2013 by RoBoBOBR

[Ash of Arcadia]

Don't know if this is old or not, but Shadow Turn aka shadow swapper can be activated even while the shadow is hitting the opponent, blocking or not.

This produces some mixup potential and has a very strange property while the opponent is cornered. It forces the opponent to react as thought they were crossed up. I haven't really found a use for it but I will test it out later.

I truly wish that some older Eddie players could play him so we can see his potential. I'm just starting out with him in +R after 10 years of hating him.

[RoBoBOBR]

DL ACR wiki was updated, so list was changed accordingly. Corrections:

- K and 6P info

- 6K forces crouch and still prorates

- 6H still floats

- DAA has less untechable time

- jP prorates 90 not 80%

- jK is still an overhead

[Ash of Arcadia]

You forgot the shadow swap special move. 214 P while shadow is active.

[Digital Watches]

Anyone messed with traversal-->throw and traversal crossup shenanigans? I've been playing around with Eddie this version but I'm not good at him yet, so I'm not sure this isn't completely fraudulent.

[Teyah]

Shadow P -> Teleport -> Command throw is workable if you have them scared of pressing buttons. Shadow P (AC) is invulnerable and brings the shadow closer, letting you in for the throw. The other Eddie player here uses this on turtly people and it works (way more than it should). But against other people who know there's very little risk to jumping back once Eddie's out of range, I doubt this would see much use.

[Diar]

Do you guys know if practicing on AC would benefit at all? Are the +R changes that drastic?

[Mr.Biscuits]

You can practice Eddie's general gameplay in AC. Movement, strings, ground shadow combos, FRCs, far drill frc iad unblockable.

I use 214P in some situations.

Far drill knock down > 214H > -D- 22H > unblockable 214P > -D- either 5K, 22S or 22D unblockable again.

Edited September 6, 2013 by Mr.Biscuits

[Diar]

You can practice Eddie's general gameplay in AC. Movement, strings, ground shadow combos, FRCs, far drill frc iad unblockable.

I use 214P in some situations.

Far drill knock down > 214H > -D- 22H > unblockable 214P > -D- either 5K, 22S or 22D unblockable again.

When your listing your -D- input, is this considered a button press or button release? I don't see any previous held [D] anywhere. I'm still kinda confused on reading the combo listing

[president]

That's a button release. If you need to release a button without getting the move on Zato, you'll just press it during some animation where it won't come out. It's not always listed in notation because you're free to use whatever you find. You could already be pressing D during the 22H input of the far drill, for example.

[Diar]

That's a button release. If you need to release a button without getting the move on Zato, you'll just press it during some animation where it won't come out. It's not always listed in notation because you're free to use whatever you find. You could already be pressing D during the 22H input of the far drill, for example.

Thank you so much. It makes perfect sense to me now

[Mr.Biscuits]

That's just how I do it, exactly how it was written.

You can hold D (D) after the 214H so it would be 214H (D) > -D- > 22H. Its impossible to get 5D since big Eddie is still recovering from his previous command. Also the main reason for just doing -D- is to allow the shark time to travel and stop them from jumping out on wakeup.

I try to minimize negative edging and optimize my muscle memory so I don't get fucked up inputs like -22S- when I meant to do 22(S) or vice versa since those are 2 possible combo ender/extension

Edited September 8, 2013 by Mr.Biscuits

[MasterGeneiJin]

Has puddle unblockable been taken out of +R? I was practicing my AC puddle setups earlier, couldn't land the unblockable when I set the dummy to block high. It hasn't been mentioned in this thread however so I don't know whats up. Now that I think about it, I haven't seen any Eddie players even attempting puddle unblockable in +R. Was puddle was changed from low to mid?

 

edit: found a 4chan post confiming puddle unblockable is gone.. well I just wasted an hour trying to do something impossible

[Pen_Ninja]

Puddle no longer hits low

 

You can still do mid-screen unblockables from 236H summons if you end a combo in 2D/22S > ]K[ > shadow gallery then UB with ]D[ + 22H > FRC > run up j.K etc

It means you really need to get a hit on your first mixup though (or 2nd if you hit confirm a low fast enough...) of you'll run out of shadow meter before ]D[

[president]

Puddle is a lot faster and re-stands an OTG character properly now so at least you can combo into it, get a couple Drunkard Shade reps and go into 5H 22S backdash 22H FRC iad j.S unblockable.

 

Even if puddle was still a low the unblockable off it wouldn't even be nearly as strong considering the 6P stun basically removed.

 

However, you get #R style shadow drill unblockables with the new 214H summon in the corner and can do 1hit SG enders with it.

[Ash of Arcadia]

I've been using shadow turn to convert midscreen wall carry combos.

 

I cancel Nobiru into Shadow Turn to take advantage of the midscreen wallbounce and just walk little Eddie over enough to help my air combo out with another Nobiru.

 

Or I just 22-D- after the wallbounce and adlib from there.

 

I love the switch cancel property in this game lol!