[P4A] Naoto Shirogane - Gameplay Discussion "Ace Detective"

[Inso]

Oh, I see, that's too bad. Thanks for the reply, Diarmuid. Anyway, the only mixups I managed to come up with for that situation are empty jump 2A, delayed airdash j.A/B, or jump > air turn > air backdash > miss j.A/B > 2A.

EDIT: Oh yeah, there is also run up AoA or run up Aim > B shots.

Edited July 1, 2013 by Inso

[Doonpa]

Oh, I see, that's too bad. Thanks for the reply, Diarmuid. Anyway, the only mixups I managed to come up with for that situation are empty jump 2A, delayed airdash j.A/B, or jump > air turn > air backdash > miss j.A/B > 2A.

EDIT: Oh yeah, there is also run up AoA or run up Aim > B shots.

Yeah those are the best ones/most practical mixups. I looked at the frame data for 2A and Sweep and 2A starts up in 7f and Sweep starts up in 8f. Considering how crappy 2A is of a combo starter, I'd say its better to use Sweep instead of 2A when going for a low while the opponent is blocking Hamaon. Only benefit I can see of using 2A is if you are just aiming to kill them via Fate Counters and want to mess with their heads by chaining 2As.

[Inso]

Yeah, the ones I mentioned focus specifically on 0 fate situation, you might wanna do something else entirely for a combo hitconfirm.

[Ichipoo]

50 SP Hamaon SMP loop off of the opponent not blocking a sweep.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcjIdaRXYkg

[LunaKage]

Aww he uses my color :c

Here's the notation:

236236C > 2A+B > 214D > 5AA > 236A~B~D > 2A > 2B > 5C > 236B~DxN

[iora]

is there any combo videos that are cool, but not just a bunch of smp stuff?

naoto cmv's are surprising hard to find o.o

[Zeromus_X]

Well there is this. It has non-SMP and SMP combos.

[Ichipoo]

Aww he uses my color :c

Here's the notation:

236236C > 2A+B > 214D > 5AA > 236A~B~D > 2A > 2B > 5C > 236B~DxN

It's everybody's color.

[iora]

Well there is this. It has non-SMP and SMP combos.

the fuck am i watching...

[Random Naoto]

I don't know Japanese, but i'm guessing using Google translate that he mentions something that you can't start this off raw C trap, and something about crouching opponents. (I THINK) I also believe he mentions ending this string with double SB Trap if you have 150%, but again, can't say for sure.

The crouching note is that Teddie doesn't get hit by the C trap in the SB if he's crouching, so it's not possible against teddie.

[Zeromus_X]

Well, I guess Japan knows about the 25 meter + OMB combo route now.

[Doonpa]

Well, I guess Japan knows about the 25 meter + OMB combo route now.

Ye, first time I've ever seen that SMP used was the FT10 between Denpa and Yu-sama. Outside of Denpa, I feel some of the Japanese players have really funky combo paths at times.

[LunaKage]

SMP loops are getting easier and more practical the more I learn about them.

[Zeromus_X]

Yeah once you get the general theory it's a lot easier to improvise a SMP off any random hit. They're not really hard execution-wise, but keeping track of resources and what you can go into at any given time is the real challenge.

[LunaKage]

Man her lack of mixup hurts. I have been playing Axis a lot, and that mofo doesn't get hit by AOA. So I find myself gold bursting asap just to get some kind of options.

[Random Naoto]

Man her lack of mixup hurts. I have been playing Axis a lot, and that mofo doesn't get hit by AOA. So I find myself gold bursting asap just to get some kind of options.

You just have to play her differently. Air turn mix-up is strong, traps are your best way of creating real mix-up, and the fact that she gets like 5k or 8 fate counters off a throw from anywhere on screen once she has meter means tick throw is more important for her than it is for other characters.

[LunaKage]

Air turn mixup isn't that strong, not against Axis. Also, you can get 5k off of a throw midscreen? I know you can SMP in the corner, but what should you be doing midscreen off of a throw?

[Zeromus_X]

If you're at least at the player starting position, Throw > followup > delayed Mudoon > daaaash etc. will always hit the corner for a SMP, since the throw followup is untechable longer than 2C.

Also don't neglect throw baits with Naoto once they get used to you throwing a lot. Run up > jump back jC. jC CH is a great starter. Denpa demonstrates this quite well here.

Edited July 8, 2013 by Zeromus_X

[LunaKage]

Jump back j.C is the throw bait? Aight. I was messing with throw baits already but I was using Neutral j.A for midscreen and jump forward j.A for corner. Which combos into falling j.C.

[Zeromus_X]

JA> jC is fine too; doesn't just have to be jC. You can even do dash, jump forward airturn jA/jC to double as a crossup throw bait.

[Doonpa]

Jump back j.C should CH so you should have enough time to run up for a combo. Naoto has good mix up in the corner if you know how to run it with C trap covering you. You get short hop j.A, AOA, 2A/Sweep, j.AAAAA, j.AA whiff air throw land into whatever, etc. Naoto has mix up, its just not herp derp and requires conditioning to make it all work. There is also Hamaon which gives you a pretty strong 50/50 situation with j.B/Sweep that you can turn into 6k if you have the SMP for it down in the corner. Midscreen you can get 8k if you use your burst too.

[LunaKage]

Yeah, her mixup sounds good on paper, but the DPs in this game really make it tough for me to actually condition people. It seems like not even the threat of SMP will prevent some people from mashing DP every chance they get.

I dunno, it's just something I gotta get over, I'll do it eventually, I'm still new to not just Naoto, but P4A in general, just kinda venting my frustrations here to my Naoto bros. And of course, all advice is appreciated :3

[Doonpa]

lol its understandable. It takes awhile to get use to dealing with certain DPs in this game, but Naoto has a lot of good safe jumps and safe meaty set ups to at least force some respect on their wake up. Dealing with DPs during her pressure is a different story. You'll have to rely using your Persona, jump cancels, and good spacing to avoid getting hit by them. Also, Kanji's DP is really good, especially if he has the meter to combo off of it. Its upsetting to get hit by, but that is the character. Most other characters don't revolve around their DP as much so just bait out a few times and punish hard. You should notice a nice decrease in DPs if you do.

[LunaKage]

Axis normally DPs after blocking the safe jump lol. My only mixup on Axis right now is j.C > Bait/Not Bait.

[Doonpa]

You can do j.C then 5C. The DP will hit the persona but not you.