BladeOfJustice7 Posted September 10, 2012 Posted September 10, 2012 Yes that's what I was making fun of. I should have said "GURLFRIEND!" Lol, You're posts are godly as usual. I'm showing him all these posts, just to deliberately break his heart "SNK game, where you also can't block in the air." Last Blade 2 Garou (JD) KOF 96-98 I think even sum SS games Also, emergency roll So yeah... what? It's a lot easier to deal with projectiles in SNK games. THANK YOU Kyosuke, for making look like in idiot TWICE over the internets Duly appreciated. It'd just be a bunch of Unlimited Enchanced Arakune's with lvl 3 Berserker on. In any event, Chrono Phantasma thread, not Abyss thread... though I do wonder if Abyss will make a return to the console version... Depends on how many people tried/played it, I know I didn't I actually suck as those modes. Since GG days. So I don't play them. Actually, there's something I'd want to see in BBCP, from Abyss: The really bonkers AI. lolno I want the Team vs option from AC+. Players choose 3 characters and fight their teams against each other, KoF13 style. When one dies, switch to next. Player who survives stays with same HP/Burst/Heat(maybe). That was the coolest feature and adds a bunch of play value for Casuals. It would even allow for cool tournament ideas instead of Spark destroying the shit out of every other team at EVO. That would be cool, outside the whole Spark thing. That wouldn't work out well in practice. so you'd rather spark enter tournament with a lone hakumen and still body everyone and their teams? you must like to see grown men cry. No this time, it'll all be with the same health bar as opposed to a new match so instead, you'll be haivng grown men slitting their wrists as opposed to crying because they couldn't get Spark to the half point in Hakumen's health lol. i approve Same.
SoWL Posted September 10, 2012 Posted September 10, 2012 (edited) Online training mode is a great idea, but I'd rather have a good, well-written tutorial along with a better AI. I'm reminded of this article, which explains many aspects of teaching new players the game and the good ways of doing so: http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/mm/200 Don't let the MtG premise scare you, it's more universal than you might think. EDIT: Then again, the article is more about recruiting new players than about teaching those who want to learn more about the game. Edited September 10, 2012 by SoWL
Airk Posted September 10, 2012 Posted September 10, 2012 "exactly"? except they're also lower to the ground. in kof that means you could hop over them easily(but you also cant go under them with a normal that lowers your hitbox or certain runs) in bb this would mean jumping over bullet's projectile would be obviously even easier than over others, but charas wouldnt be able to do things like slide under it(makoto and noel 3c, for example) Actually, it doesn't mean that at all - Makoto's 3C has head/body invulnerability, so even if a move comes up out of the ground (Like Lambda's Spike Chaser) her 3C will go right through it unless it has foot property. So it really depends on how they define the properties of the projectile - the shape is pretty much irrelevant. Yes, it would be NICE if things made sense, but Spike Chaser proves that that is not always the case. :P As if anyone has any sort of trouble jumping over projectiles in this game anyway. x.x
Darlos9D Posted September 10, 2012 Posted September 10, 2012 (edited) From a raw game design standpoint, if you want to teach players how to play without making them feel like they're slogging through tutorials, you need to make the learning part of the actual gameplay. For instance, rather than story mode being just a progression of various regular fights, instead design the fights to gradually introduce and demand the usage of more game concepts as the player progresses. For instance, early on the player might be playing as Ragna, and get introduced to the fact that ID has invulnerable startup and is good for using if you have time to act while a close-range attack is coming at you. Then the next fight in the story pits you against an AI that just blockstrings continuously until you DP out of it. Or you learn that you can jump out of throws, and then you have to fight AI Tager. Or you learn about anti-airs and then have to fight somebody that does a lot of jump-ins. Or you learn about overheads and have to fight somebody that mostly blocks low, or tries to use overheads on you a lot. And then as you get later into the game, the opponents start combining these things, demanding you apply more and more of what you've learned simultaneously. Casual players - and often even ones that are interested in getting better but are still new - are invariably going to go through story mode if they pick up the game, so that's probably where the teaching needs to really happen. Edited September 10, 2012 by Darlos9D
Rishtopher Posted September 10, 2012 Posted September 10, 2012 I wish they'd merge some aspects of abyss mode with story mode to actually give it more progression than a visual novel. I was kinda thinking about that when you guys were talking about story mode following groups of characters rather than individuals. I guess part of me still would like to see the RPG that BB could have been... They had something like this in the story mode before. Like those gimmicky matches where Jin couldn't use D moves, or when Carl couldn't use Ada. I thought that was at least interesting. Granted it's not as deep as the modifiers as Abyss. Also, on the topic of Abyss, I think it was actually pretty fun. The only boring part was grinding for that trophy, but that's not really necessary. CSE is the only one that I don't plan on Plat-ing. Sarcasm? No, I was trying to show my appreciation! I'll just stick with exclamations next time lol.
WolfCrimson Posted September 10, 2012 Posted September 10, 2012 (edited) Ok, reading these last few posts I deduced one very important lesson: Never insult or say ignorant things about KOF (or SNK) in front of a mexican. They take it very seriously. Also, I agree with the implementation of an online training mode and very smart AI for Hell difficulty. Edited September 10, 2012 by WolfCrimson
Darlos9D Posted September 10, 2012 Posted September 10, 2012 I assume by "smart AI" you mean something more clever than just "they read all your inputs and block/counter everything automagically."
Kriegdrache Posted September 10, 2012 Posted September 10, 2012 Kyo ain't shit! Also, something Id like to see in training mode is the option to start in the corner. It's not a huge want, but I'd like it.
Hecatom Posted September 10, 2012 Posted September 10, 2012 Also, something Id like to see in training mode is the option to start in the corner. It's not a huge want, but I'd like it. considering that they added the option on P4A, we can be sure that they will add it on BBCP
Kriegdrache Posted September 10, 2012 Posted September 10, 2012 considering that they added the option on P4A, we can be sure that they will add it on BBCP I wouldn't know that as I've not been able to try out the training mode yet :x But good to know, it was probably my favorite thing about MVC3's training mode (as well as the option to train under artificial lag), so seeing it here would be sweet.
mAc Chaos Posted September 10, 2012 Posted September 10, 2012 From a raw game design standpoint, if you want to teach players how to play without making them feel like they're slogging through tutorials, you need to make the learning part of the actual gameplay. For instance, rather than story mode being just a progression of various regular fights, instead design the fights to gradually introduce and demand the usage of more game concepts as the player progresses. For instance, early on the player might be playing as Ragna, and get introduced to the fact that ID has invulnerable startup and is good for using if you have time to act while a close-range attack is coming at you. Then the next fight in the story pits you against an AI that just blockstrings continuously until you DP out of it. Or you learn that you can jump out of throws, and then you have to fight AI Tager. Or you learn about anti-airs and then have to fight somebody that does a lot of jump-ins. Or you learn about overheads and have to fight somebody that mostly blocks low, or tries to use overheads on you a lot. And then as you get later into the game, the opponents start combining these things, demanding you apply more and more of what you've learned simultaneously. Casual players - and often even ones that are interested in getting better but are still new - are invariably going to go through story mode if they pick up the game, so that's probably where the teaching needs to really happen. It's a good idea, but if they're totally new, they probably won't even realize why Inferno Divider is beating everything. Although I guess they could still know enough not to mess with it.
swordiris Posted September 10, 2012 Posted September 10, 2012 I want to be able to chose the character I play the tutorial with. I learned quite a bit about Ragna just from going through the tutorial.
Darlos9D Posted September 10, 2012 Posted September 10, 2012 (edited) It's a good idea, but if they're totally new, they probably won't even realize why Inferno Divider is beating everything. Although I guess they could still know enough not to mess with it. Well I mean, the game would have to explain what's good about a DP when DPs are introduced properly, since it's not something you can really intuit by just looking at the move. But after that proper introduction, the game can then proceed to throw you into situations in story mode that specifically test your ability to use it, so it doesn't blatantly feel like JUST a tutorial. Actually, RPG-ifying story mode a bit would help with this. Like, you'd start with characters that only have some normals, and then they gradually get the rest of their moves as you progress. Then players would get accustomed to each move individually. It'd be a lot like how Blizzard handles a lot of its single player experiences. Now something you COULD do to actually make it a visually obvious thing is have some kind of graphical effect that ALWAYS accompanies invulnerable frames, and then just explain to the player that that effect always means invulnerability. It'd be kinda like how in some games super armor is represented by yellow flashing or something. Then you could have other graphics for anti-airs, overheads, lows, super armor, etc. That could get busy though, so maybe such things could be turned off in the options for advanced players. I dunno. SOMEthing could be done to make things more obvious to newbies. I feel like "dragon punch has startup invuln and that lets you counter incoming assaults" should be just as well-known of a piece of information to all gamers as "mushrooms make mario bigger and let him take and extra hit and get other powerups." But it isn't and that makes me a sad panda. The genre HAS been working on its accessibility in recent years, I'll admit. But it could still do better. Edited September 10, 2012 by Darlos9D
shtkn Posted September 10, 2012 Posted September 10, 2012 http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=Miscellaneous_(P4Arena)#Recognizing_Invincibility every version of blazblue has this too... not as obvious as changing colors, but it's pretty apparant as soon as you try to hit them that they are invincible.
Airk Posted September 10, 2012 Posted September 10, 2012 The Sonic Hurricane article on tutorials still makes a ton of sense, and no game has come anywhere close to implementing their ideas.
TD Posted September 10, 2012 Posted September 10, 2012 that isn't a bad idea at all. l would like a more in depth tutorial too.
Darlos9D Posted September 10, 2012 Posted September 10, 2012 (edited) http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=Miscellaneous_(P4Arena)#Recognizing_Invincibility every version of blazblue has this too... not as obvious as changing colors, but it's pretty apparant as soon as you try to hit them that they are invincible. Does the game itself ever bother explaining that though? That's half the problem. Plus I'm not too keen on the idea of the effect only happening when you get "hit." Then you'd only ever find out if somebody was actually attacking you when you used the move, which seems like a more restrictive way to learn things. The Sonic Hurricane article on tutorials still makes a ton of sense, and no game has come anywhere close to implementing their ideas. Yeah, pretty much this. Now, work these ideas into an actual story mode and you'd have fighting game gold. Like, replace "barrels" with "random stupid thugs you have to beat up for story reasons." Edited September 10, 2012 by Darlos9D
GEKKA Posted September 10, 2012 Posted September 10, 2012 Yeah, pretty much this. Now, work these ideas into an actual story mode and you'd have fighting game gold. Like, replace "barrels" with Bang's subordinates you have to beat up for story reasons." Fixed lol
Darlos9D Posted September 10, 2012 Posted September 10, 2012 You joke, but that's a perfectly good idea. That or NOL soldiers. Or generic vigilantes. Or even just some weird creatures. The BB universe has options.
MetalMaelstrom Posted September 10, 2012 Posted September 10, 2012 You joke, but that's a perfectly good idea. That or NOL soldiers. Or generic vigilantes. Or even just some weird creatures. The BB universe has options. They could always go with the lazy route and just use Mecha-tao.
Kyosuke Kagami Posted September 10, 2012 Posted September 10, 2012 Dudes, be honest. You want GGI's Scramble Mode back. I want it back too And considering how bullshit the "joke" routes are, I'd definitely expect mecha-Tao there.
Darlos9D Posted September 10, 2012 Posted September 10, 2012 Dudes, be honest. You want GGI's Scramble Mode back. I want it back too And considering how bullshit the "joke" routes are, I'd definitely expect mecha-Tao there. Yeah basically. Just give story mode some blatant brawler segments. But make it so every character can progress their moves gradually, instead of just one guy like robo ky 2. Shit would be so boss.
GEKKA Posted September 10, 2012 Posted September 10, 2012 We can expect goodies, no? I didn't know it was a two part thing, this is good news. Edit: Can someone explain what scramble mode was? I never got a chance to play/experience it.
Darlos9D Posted September 10, 2012 Posted September 10, 2012 We can expect goodies, no? I didn't know it was a two part thing, this is good news. Edit: Can someone explain what scramble mode was? I never got a chance to play/experience it. Basically, imagine Double Dragon with Guilty Gear characters. You can not only move left/right, but also towards and away from the screen. Then you move right and beat up waves of generic mooks. And beat an actual character at the end of a level as a boss. I'd like to see that formula actually applied to story mode.
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