[CP] Rachel Alucard Gameplay Discussion

[Mechanica]

Alright I've been scrubbing it up with Rachel against my roommate for a while and have built up quite a few questions.

Pumpkin

Ground pumpkin between me and my opponent. Any tips here on converting off 6D pumpkin hit in general? I just want to dash 5B 5CC typically? Also, is there an optimal time to dash + wind? Like does 66D move me further than using wind before I dash? I've seen someone convert having to use 6D twice to get pumpkin to hit twice for more hitstun.

Ground pumpkin behind them. Is this mostly useless? When I find holes in their string to 4D the pumpkin into them, I'm sliding backwards and don't know how to convert a hit. Assuming I really want to convert what can I do here? Will 6D and a dash get me there fast enough?

Air pumpkin behind them - is a 1D pumpkin hit easier to confirm? Or can I do like 1D into 6D and dash up and convert off the two pumpkin hits, or what do I do?

~

Combos

When ending combos in 3C is it better to cancel the last hit into pumpkin, rather than the first? Just do that for really long combo enders?

What can I do for a corner combo off something like 2A with a lot of scaling/prorate? Like after I land 5CC in the corner I do either:

• low wind: 6A, 5A 6A 236A, 6A 4B into 3C or super
  
• high wind: 5B jC 236A~2D, land, 5B jC 236A~2D, land, 5B 6A 236A, 6A super (could probably 3C instead?)
  

(My timing on comboing off 5B 6A 236A needs work.)

I'm not sure these work off the longer confirms. The second one rarely does, maybe if I omit one of the reps of the seed loop? Do I just need to do 6A 4B, 3C and call it good?

~

Mixup

So let's say I land a short string into 3C xx pumpkin oki and they neutral tech. What are some effective mixups?

In the corner I just j2D and go high or low, but midscreen I don't understand effective ways to move the pumpkin forward and apply pressure. Can I 3D the pumpkin meaty THEN jump and still catch the momentum for her overhead game?

~

Okay I'll stop there.

Edited February 4, 2014 by Mechanica

[RurouniLoneWolf]

Rachel changes for the new patch. Source

• 2C – On a ground hit, it cannot be techable until the electricity has finished, also adjusted how far people are blown away and the untechable time
  
• Impish Gypsophila – Can now only be moved four times. The hitbox now appears while the projectile is moving.
  
• Barrel Lotus, Beelze Lotus – Slower to start up and move, but now lasts longer. Attack data has been adjusted
  

[KoopaDoopa]

Rachel changes for the new patch. Source

• 2C – On a ground hit, it cannot be techable until the electricity has finished, also adjusted how far people are blown away and the untechable time
  
• Impish Gypsophila – Can now only be moved four times. The hitbox now appears while the projectile is moving.
  
• Barrel Lotus, Beelze Lotus – Slower to start up and move, but now lasts longer. Attack data has been adjusted
  

I know these probably aren't the only changes, but the list seems kind of... disappointing a bit. Pumpkin moving only four times is At best you're only going to have 4 wind gauges to move it with. I am liking the 2C and Lotus changes though.

Arcsys I want my CS2 2C back ;_;

[Venussail91]

Eh, I think these will be the only changes they make to her (until a more major update like CPII or something at least). This patch was mainly supposed to be for the low tiers and console exclusives anyway, wasn't it? I'm actually not the biggest fan of increased startup and slower Lotus, I'd prefer they had kept it as is. It wasn't much trouble to reset the Lotus on the opponent IMO. Does anyone know what they mean by "the hitbox now appears while the projectile is moving" for pumpkin?

[Daedron]

I really doubt these changes are the only ones. There's no way in hell they could leave Makoto in her current state, and even apply a nerf to her. Unless Arc sys thinks she's not low tier enough to deserve the attention from this patch. :V

[KoopaDoopa]

Eh, I think these will be the only changes they make to her (until a more major update like CPII or something at least). This patch was mainly supposed to be for the low tiers and console exclusives anyway, wasn't it? I'm actually not the biggest fan of increased startup and slower Lotus, I'd prefer they had kept it as is. It wasn't much trouble to reset the Lotus on the opponent IMO. Does anyone know what they mean by "the hitbox now appears while the projectile is moving" for pumpkin?

I agree with you, it's just having Nu-Mode for longer that I particularly approve of

As for pumpkin change, I'm going to guess that they made the active frames for winded pumpkin start up earlier? (I don't actually know.)

[Prestizi]

I sure hope so, I LOVE it when i have a pumpkin on top of someone and it whiffs through them during activation.

Also what does it mean that it only has 4 uses? I was under the impression it only had 3 to begin with?

[TheArm05]

Yeah I think that was a mistranslation. I think it is buffed to 4 uses now. That probably won't matter but the activation time sounds like a solid buff.

The Rachel changes in general are pretty whatever. 2C change is meh and I don't really know where they are going with the lotus change.

But hey at least they didn't nerf her.

[Prestizi]

Longer lasting slower moving means it maintains screen control for a longer time, i think its a pretty nice buff ( assuming it's talking about the lotus bats before they attach ).

[Errol]

it won't be as good for doing after hitting someone with a j236A I believe, but it should be nice to do at the end of combos for midscreen oki and such. or if you have pumpkin, to use it.

it's hard for me to tell exactly what the pumpkin change means. need to see it.

[Errol]

I think they made it so that pumpkin doesn't move until active frames start. which is a buff in couple of ways, though probably also decreases the max horizontal range on it. might also make it worse if it makes it so that pumpkin doesn't lead as much during dashes, providing less cover against stuff. but, overall, I think this is probably good.

[Soniti]

It's either that or they made it so that the pumpkin isn't active immediately upon pressing D and it has to wait a frame or two to start moving?

Slowing down the startup of Barrel Lotus and Beelze Lotus will make it hard to use them during a combo probably, but it's not like we are doing that often anyway.

It's worth noting that the universal nerf to proration on jumping attacks will reduce the damage output from all of Rachel's viable overheads.

I misread, that should be a BUFF to damage from Rachel's overhead combos.

Edited February 14, 2014 by Soniti

[gamester]

These changes are confusing me? If anything I'm most worried about what's up with Pumpkin.

[samthegreat]

N-O's tweets are worrying me.

[gamester]

I'm still bad with Japanese and forever will be. What's up?

[7thFonon]

I'm really wondering about how the attack data got adjusted on barrel / belze lotus.. For them to slow the move down in both startup and movement, the active frames and attack data changes are probably pretty good.... would be great to be able to easily combo off it on random hits (which I guess the extra active frames already help with that). Guess we'll find out soon though.

2C buff sounds really good..... since you can't get much worse than normal hit 2C in BBCP.

[Tari]

2C buff sounds really good..... since you can't get much worse than normal hit 2C in BBCP.

Here's to hoping it means we can't be punished for hitting people with non-CH 2C anymore, haha.

[RurouniLoneWolf]

N-O's tweets are worrying me.

Don't leave us hanging, Sam. What's he saying? I hope they didn't ninja nerf us ;.;

[Yaaay]

I didnt read N-O's tweets all too well (there's a lot of them) but I think he's worrying about about this system change:

Jump Attacks – Jump attacks have generally increased P1 (Initial Proration)

It's something that caught my eye as well, since it would seriously suck if this messed with her overheads.

Yeah I think that was a mistranslation. I think it is buffed to 4 uses now.

I think so too. The Japanese notes don't say anything about 'only' or 'reduced', they only mentioned we can use it four times now.

I think they made it so that pumpkin doesn't move until active frames start. which is a buff in couple of ways, though probably also decreases the max horizontal range on it. might also make it worse if it makes it so that pumpkin doesn't lead as much during dashes, providing less cover against stuff. but, overall, I think this is probably good.

I cant really comprehend what they are trying to say with this change, but your suggestion makes perfect sense. If its true, this would be a pretty nice change.

I'm curious to what they have done with Lotus though, since it was pretty slow to begin with... they must have done something big to compensate for it.

[RurouniLoneWolf]

I see. Follow up question from the noob that isn't 100% sure he understands proration! What effects would having more P1 on our jump attacks cause? I think it means lower damage and maybe some combos might not work anymore but I'm not 100% sure.

[samthegreat]

They did, it lasts longer which is pretty funny.

Ho~chan/stunedge has been trying out the game at JEAPO, N-O asked him to confirm the rumor about shortened combos from air normals.

Apparently Jin's corner j.C/j.2C jump in combos seem to be working.Might've been worrying too soon.

[TD]

if anything proration would only change damage, not combo time. also, increased proration means higher damage afaik.

[Errol]

proration is definitely nerfed. shorter combos seems to have been false reports.

[Venussail91]

Ok, so just making sure I understand everything in regards to the overheads... We don't have to adjust our combos at all and they'll end up doing more damage? Also, if pumpkin doesn't move at all until the active frames start, I'm really worried about it. I feel like our rushdown will take a fairly major hit for it and in some instances things like j.B3D or j.C3D with pumpkin coverage won't be possible anymore. Am I overreacting or is this a legitimate concern?

[Errol]

nerf and a buff.

and no, proration is worse, combos will do less damage, but it doesn't matter.