[P4A] Naoto vs. Elizabeth

[ludwig van]

Discuss the Elizabeth matchup here!

[bluASTERiSK]

I need to vent out here guys, this guy online hasn't lost once and I can't do anything about his Elizabeth. I tried counters and breaking his persona, what is a good strategy? Thanatos does way too much damage and is way too fast, there HAS to be a way around this!

[TsukasaxGemini]

^ I have the same problem! I lay traps, boom beam comes out. I tried to zone, more beams, I go upclose I get owned.

[Narcowski]

Nevermind that you can B+D~6X on reaction versus Zio, it's unsafe on block from full screen if you're on point with your 214A~Ax5, and you can get Silence off of that if you have meter.

edit: Hmm, maybe that struck through part doesn't work. Oh well, B+D~6X on reaction works fine.

Edited August 12, 2012 by Narcowski

[bluASTERiSK]

I was watching a match in the a-cho videos and I noticed this Chie player using the evasive action to go through the Persona. I'm not sure but if you hit Elizabeth when she has her Persona out it counts as a hit to the Persona stocks.

[Narcowski]

I was watching a match in the a-cho videos and I noticed this Chie player using the evasive action to go through the Persona. I'm not sure but if you hit Elizabeth when she has her Persona out it counts as a hit to the Persona stocks.

This is true for anyone; it's a general system thing. You can damage personas by hitting them or the character while they are out.

[Sqwirl]

Only thing you guys have to worry about is her j5b and teching her DP tbh. Her persona is really easy to jump out of so you just punish it with a jab or 5b after the shock wave or grab. You can even EXDP her from across the screen.

She still gets stupid damage off a 5b, 5a or 2a though, so make sure you have advantage and don't mash or else half ur health = bye.

[XDest]

I'm having a bit of trouble with this. Trying to lay traps is almost useless in this matchup, and j.B/2B covers any option I have coming in. If I can get in, that's usually where I'll win this, but getting to that point seems really difficult.

[Kyle]

Be weary of her 2B. It's very tall & hits behind her. I have this trajectory where I super jump and airdash behind someone w/ J.C & traps. Eliz still beats it all with her 2B( which she was going to do anyways) So, don't try to cross it up.

[Sqwirl]

I'm having a bit of trouble with this. Trying to lay traps is almost useless in this matchup, and j.B/2B covers any option I have coming in. If I can get in, that's usually where I'll win this, but getting to that point seems really difficult.

Getting in is difficult, only way I can without her bs is to DP her from mid distance, then rush into her face to get a quick oki. You can bait out her 5c with a slide, but I rather not chance that.

Raid is really good in this match though, super fast and about 30% of her health from full screen is always god liek.

[The_Crazyasian]

In this match-up, I think you just have to play it patient try and bait out one of her B moves. If you mix up your approaches doing things like jump in IAD back or dash in jump back right outside of 5b and jb range with and manage to make one of them wiff, you're pretty much guaranteed in because their recovery is absolutely horrible. And if you manage to condition them to second guess throwing out those normals for the rest of the match, that's even better.

And yea, raid is pretty godlike in this match-up. If you have 100 meter you can actually do up to 60% of her health if you combo 2 raids together. Works wonders against Elizabeths who get complacent with their stuff.

[Zeromus_X]

What do you guys do against Magarudyne? I've seen Liz players just...use it to approach and then do a 5.9k combo on me, and it seems safe on block, pretty gay.

[Ichipoo]

Have you tried straight up disrespecting it with her F-Action? I'm curious what would happen afterwards.

[Teh Umby]

F-Action seems to be an ok tool here. Aside from punishing Maziodyne and Maragidyne on reaction, if they start spamming 5C > 2C/5D, you can BD~6X whichever follow up Thanatos is using. Might not the best thing in the long run, since I think she can delay his attacks, but forces players to actually think, which could give you more breathing room.

[SgtFunShinebear]

Important note, if you do get in, Liz's DP can be teched out of.

[Ichipoo]

Despite how unsafe Liz's 5B is, it can still stuff Naoto's frontal assaults simply due to how it beats any of Naoto's normals with regards to range. Jumping in is unsafe because Liz's 2B is a decent AA as well. Anyway to shut her down if her normals can outpoke us? I feel that playing the lay traps all day game doesn't work simply due to Maziodyne.

[OmniSScythe]

Actually F-action should be your answer to everything.

Maziodyne? ex counter

Maragidyne? ex counter

2C guard pointed? ex counter

You're in the corner and she wants to 5B you if you break her Persona? ex counter

[Ichipoo]

Yeah I'm starting to think that being more "liberal" with Naoto's F-Action, albeit with good reads, is the way to go in general if we want our opponents to respect us.

[PANDEMlC]

Feels like you have to play the ground game. Jumping is scary as shit against her. Obviously you can throw up traps from time to time and superjump accordingly but not when you're in range of 5c clipping you as you jump or Zio hitting you, SB Agi pulling you in, or Liz air throwing you with her Persona, which has ridiculous range if she air turns first. Her Jump B beats out all your options except maybe j.d but even that will probably get hit by her j.b.

I hate playing against Liz but I guess the best options are be patient, R Action accordingly and get her persona to break. Once that happens, gun shot + 5D to cover your entry should help you get an opening. Just stay patient and learn to watch Liz for when she does persona throws or 2c. She does an animation and talks for throw and crouches for 2c. I still get caught by throws all the time, I try jumping them on reaction, problem is my reaction is ass. Might be best just to throw out a good poke instead of jumping and punishing it.

You can roll through obvious 5cs, but it's risky because Liz can bait the shit out of that with 2c or 5d.

[-Otsdarva-]

After getting bodied many times, I learned that Naoto can 5A R-Action OS all her persona stings and persona break her pretty easy.

[Ichipoo]

bellreisa told me that playing gay against Liz works wonders, which was evident in our matches with each other about a month ago. Basically you'll want to keep Liz out because she can really hurt you when she gets in, especially with those nasty resets that she has. Lots and lots of well aimed bullets was Liz's bane in those matches. Just be aware that if she does happen to block bullets, that you be unpredictable with when you cancel them since having Liz block the 5th shot means eating a fullscreen Maziodyne. Also, R-Action > 6X worked wonders in the gaps of her 5C strings, as it blasts Liz away and also takes away a Persona stock if she's being obvious with Thanatos.

[Xtra_Zero]

I too have had success with carefully shooting Elizabeth in the face.