Tokkan Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 Guess I need to play through the story mode again, because I swear they made it pretty damn clear that they were the other Murakumos. Actually, all it said was that they were prime field devices that failed to become Noel. The base bodies are prime field devices that aren't numbered in a sense because they're just a test group. Relius mentions to Makoto in his CP arcade mode they were all basically sacrificial lambs to perfect the 11th, 12th and 13th prime field devices.
Orihalcon Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 Actually, all it said was that they were prime field devices that failed to become Noel. The base bodies are prime field devices that aren't numbered in a sense because they're just a test group. Relius mentions to Makoto in his CP arcade mode they were all basically sacrificial lambs to perfect the 11th, 12th and 13th prime field devices. ...so other Murakumos then.
Moy_X7 Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 In Relius' arcade mode, he tells Makoto that he created those Prime Field Devices in order to "complete" Lambda-11, Mu-12, and Nu-13. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvkuy5_bbcp-relius-story_videogames#.UMkRV6zC2K9 Edit: Ninja'd lol
Orihalcon Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 Pretty sure that means they're other Murakumos, since the Murakumos themselves are types of Prime Field Devices.
Hecatom Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 This is the Internet. People tend to be blunt here. B\ Fixed
DeadmanJV2 Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 Well, if they were used to complete Lambda-11, they obviously can't be Mu-12 bodies since you can't have #12 without #11. I'm pretty sure that its referring to the bodies of the previous Murakumo units, as its implied 1-10 didn't even survive the process.
Hecatom Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 Since you people are talking about the Murakumos What does Nu mean on CT when she says to Ragna that the last time she wasn't able to speak? Is she talking about a previous Cycle or is she talking about another Murakumo that ragna killed before their encounter?
Orihalcon Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 Since you people are talking about the Murakumos What does Nu mean on CT when she says to Ragna that the last time she wasn't able to speak? Is she talking about a previous Cycle or is she talking about another Murakumo that ragna killed before their encounter? I never really got that either, but I assumed it was just two incomplete Murakumos who Nu could see out of or something.
heavymetalmixer Posted December 13, 2012 Posted December 13, 2012 Nu was supossed to have two other bodies before the one we see in CT, the both of them were destroid by Ragna.
mAc Chaos Posted December 13, 2012 Posted December 13, 2012 It seems like they were all Nu, but she just had a progressively better body each time until she was completed. She seems to exist in the Boundary or outside of the normal timeline since she seems aware of the loops, so when she dies she just moves onto the next body.
NovaFortuna Posted December 13, 2012 Posted December 13, 2012 That would explain why she's so mentally screwed up.
BlackYakuzu94 Posted December 13, 2012 Posted December 13, 2012 Or it could be Nu is able to regenerate between loops...
Yaaay Posted December 13, 2012 Posted December 13, 2012 People who get bent out of shape over a fictional, fantasy world being unrealistic, or people who think all females need to dress like nuns. Or people who care about character design, its relation to the story and like to talk about why they like or, in this case, dislike it. If it's a legitimately idiotic discussion, people are going to say it. Don't just tell people not to tell people that their current conversation sucks. That's useless. Does this also go for signatures? If yes, I would like to say that your sig is the most retarded one ever. :l (If no I have said it anyway)
Chaoschao222 Posted December 13, 2012 Posted December 13, 2012 Does this also go for signatures? If yes, I would like to say that your sig is the most retarded one ever. :l (If no I have said it anyway) Calm your tits, OST rules applies here, too. Pointless hostile comments are liable for infractions. I understand Ori's post was pretty rude, as well, but at least it wasn't directed at a dumb comment for the sole sake of being hostile
Tokkan Posted December 13, 2012 Posted December 13, 2012 Well, if they were used to complete Lambda-11, they obviously can't be Mu-12 bodies since you can't have #12 without #11. I'm pretty sure that its referring to the bodies of the previous Murakumo units, as its implied 1-10 didn't even survive the process. Um yeah. The 10 that can be seen as caskets in Grave Marker of Bases stage (7 in the immediate background, 3 in the far back) + The other 2 base bodies that the NOL took with the one that would become Nu + Lambda and Mu/Noel = 15 Never mind that the 1st Prime Field was being made in 2099, is not based on Saya and is no longer around as it was obliterated when the Black Beast emerged. This does not add up with all the evidence stating the 13th (Nu) was the last one to be made. Oh, BTW Orihalcon, a Prime Field is not exactly a Murakumo. They must successfully complete tempering to be a Murakumo.
Orihalcon Posted December 13, 2012 Posted December 13, 2012 (edited) Or people who care about character design, its relation to the story and like to talk about why they like or, in this case, dislike it. "I dislike a character's design, and anybody who disagrees with me clearly doesn't care about character design as much as I do!!" You basically just quoted what I said and repeated what was in the quote anyways. Um yeah. The 10 that can be seen as caskets in Grave Marker of Bases stage (7 in the immediate background, 3 in the far back) + The other 2 base bodies that the NOL took with the one that would become Nu + Lambda and Mu/Noel = 15 Never mind that the 1st Prime Field was being made in 2099, is not based on Saya and is no longer around as it was obliterated when the Black Beast emerged. This does not add up with all the evidence stating the 13th (Nu) was the last one to be made. Are we sure those are Murakumos? I mean I can't think of anything else they'd be, granted, but are we absolutely sure they're Murakumos? And the 1st Prime Field Device isn't a Murakumo anyways. And where is it said that only 11-13 are based on Saya, or that the others aren't? Because I remember hearing them all being based on Saya, not just the last three. Honestly, even with the arcade and story quotes and scenarios you guys are mentioning, all I see are them talking about Murakumos. Oh, BTW Orihalcon, a Prime Field is not exactly a Murakumo. They must successfully complete tempering to be a Murakumo. I never said all Prime Field Devices were Murakumos. I said that all Murakumos are Prime Field Devices. Doesn't sound that different, but it is. Edited December 13, 2012 by Chaoschao222 no more unrelated hostile bullshit
Moy_X7 Posted December 13, 2012 Posted December 13, 2012 Wasn't it stated that the original Prime Field Device was sealed inside the Boundary because its creators couldn't destroy it?
Armagus Posted December 13, 2012 Posted December 13, 2012 Wasn't it stated that the original Prime Field Device was sealed inside the Boundary because its creators couldn't destroy it? It is in Noel's Continuum Shift story ending in her "talk" with Hazama.
Tokkan Posted December 13, 2012 Posted December 13, 2012 And where is it said that only 11-13 are based on Saya, or that the others aren't? It isn't stated, however... Because I remember hearing them all being based on Saya, not just the last three. Neither is this. Also the "First Prime Field" as it was in Phase 0 was an attempt to create Kusanagi (Murakumo), as were all of THEM. I never said all Prime Field Devices were Murakumos. I said that all Murakumos are Prime Field Devices. Doesn't sound that different, but it is. The thing is, none of those things that Makoto saw can even be seen as Murakumo, most of them would've had a botched tempering and a few others may not have even been put through the tempering process and were just discarded like trash. Also of note, at the end of the Sector Seven EX story, Roy states they were only able to find the 11th and 12th prime field devices in Relius's old lab, all traces of the 13th had disappeared.
Orihalcon Posted December 13, 2012 Posted December 13, 2012 Neither is this. So you have no definitive proof for either case. Considering, though, that the only three seen so far were all based off them, it's not far-fetched to think they all are. Especially given BlazBlue's time-looping shenanigans and such. Also the "First Prime Field" as it was in Phase 0 was an attempt to create Kusanagi (Murakumo), as were all of THEM. Pretty sure that was the first attempt at the Kusanagi and the first creation of the Murakumos are unrelated. I mean yes a Kusanagi is an upgraded Murakumo but Relius, Terumi, and Shuichiro fucking around and trying to create it while accidentally summoning the Black Beast was a separate incident from the first Prime Field Device's creation, as it was in Phase 0. And Murakumos were made primarily to explore the boundary; the creation of the Kusanagi is Terumi and his friend's own thing. The thing is, none of those things that Makoto saw can even be seen as Murakumo, most of them would've had a botched tempering and a few others may not have even been put through the tempering process and were just discarded like trash. The game describes how they looked, and even if they weren't tempered correctly, it doesn't make them Murakumos. Incomplete/tempered badly =/= not Murakumo at all. It just makes them failures. You're right; they were discarded like trash because they were failed. Also of note, at the end of the Sector Seven EX story, Roy states they were only able to find the 11th and 12th prime field devices in Relius's old lab, all traces of the 13th had disappeared. That doesn't mean anything. We have no idea whether or not the place Makoto visited was Relius's old lab or not.
harmless kitten Posted December 13, 2012 Posted December 13, 2012 The "1st prime field" is more like first successful prime field, the one to contact the Azure. They also seem to be divided by series--Shuichiro talks about how Terumi wanted Relius to make a special prime field device. Kusanagi no. 1 was just the first of that particular series. Blah blah pedantry. Also, Relius calls Kusanagi no. 1 in P0 a Murakumo Unit. Kusanagi no. 1 seems to be noted at a "zeroth prime field," altho CTSMC calls it the first so IDEK. Murakumos were definitely not made to explore the Boundary. That's just a run of the mill prime field device. Murakumos are weaponized prime fields. I really think those caskets are just failed, discarded, or never used base bodies for 11 and 12. I wonder what happened to Lambda anyway. Kokonoe insists on using her instead of the other base bodies hanging around. So it seems like she was tempered, but then something happened to make her useless. Tager says her body is mostly decomposed by the time he gets to it. Did they push her too hard and killed her, as its implied? How awful.
Halcyone3 Posted December 13, 2012 Posted December 13, 2012 I really think those caskets are just failed, discarded, or never used base bodies for 11 and 12. I wonder what happened to Lambda anyway. Kokonoe insists on using her instead of the other base bodies hanging around. So it seems like she was tempered, but then something happened to make her useless. Tager says her body is mostly decomposed by the time he gets to it. Did they push her too hard and killed her, as its implied? How awful. It is heavily implied they weren't nice to her in the slightest. Might also be part of the reason Nu ended up so fucked up, even if she survived. Noel is lucky to not remember those times
Chaoschao222 Posted December 13, 2012 Posted December 13, 2012 Why would Noel remember those times, she didn't go through them thanks to Take-Mikazuchi, right?
harmless kitten Posted December 13, 2012 Posted December 13, 2012 It is heavily implied they weren't nice to her in the slightest. Might also be part of the reason Nu ended up so fucked up, even if she survived. Noel is lucky to not remember those times Heavily implied? More like outright stated. We see Lambda being experimented upon and actually electrocuted at one point because the scientists are like lol she's tough, she was made by Relius Clover and her body can totally take it. Guess she couldn't. The older scientist in CTR opening talks about it, but I can't remember what he says and I can't check right now. @Chao: I guess it depends on whether Lambda was experimented upon before or prior to tempering. If before, Noel is lucky not to remember. If after, she was never tortured like Lambda.
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