NovaFortuna Posted January 11, 2013 Posted January 11, 2013 (edited) Well like I said, hopefully they can give the conflict between Ragna & Jin a bit more substance so it doesn't come off as so....tenuous as harmless said, specifically give Jin a legit reason for wanting to fight him outside of "NII-SAAAAN", LET'S MAKE LOVE". We all know Ragna wants to beat Hazama above anyone else, but he has a lot of bad blood with a lot of other characters as well. That could be easily accomplished with two simple steps: 1: show openly and clearly why Jin is so hellbent on killing Ragna, so it's no longer the depraved molester's routine and has some actual weight and may even make Ragna consider his little brother enough to actually stop and try to settle things instead of rushing off . 2: make Jin actually win one of their encounter with Ragna not holding back, so whenever Jin shows up again, Ragna knows shit is about to go down (this isn't hard to pull or farfetched if they actually use the power of order given it made Jin strong enough to force Hazama to retreat and survive fine and dandy an encounter with Phantom). Now if Jin actually grows out of the nissan mode and still wants to kill Ragna but with his usual cold and rude attitude, now that would be awesome, because it would mean he has strong reasons for it and can't just blame it on Yukianesa, insanity, Hazama or whatever. But this last part is just my inner fanboy talking. I am sure (and hope) they will settle things when approaching the end of the story and no more rivalry and will team up. The yukianesa thing was kind of a "middle finger", when it was finally going to be shown what's the deal with our jerk, we get a scene cut. Another "aha! this will be answered next episode for the sake of mystery!" that just doesn't help, especially if it's taken in count that probably Ragna knows what happened now and just the players are stuck without knowing. Edited January 11, 2013 by NovaFortuna
kylehyde Posted January 11, 2013 Posted January 11, 2013 Btw, how is the relationship between Hakumen and Bloodedge if anyone knows. I mean, Hakumen knew he was Ragna right I don't think Hakumen knew who Bloodedge was given his conversation with Jubei at the start of his story in CS. He meerly acknowledges that who ever he was he must've been a great warrior.
A.T Posted January 11, 2013 Posted January 11, 2013 Yeah, I clearly see how Hakumen casually says to Jubei "Oh, Ragna, yea, nice guy, u're gonna meet him in, like, 100 years, so dont worry so much" C'mon, have a common sense - nobody in Hakumen's situation would say that. Of course they would pretend they didnt even knew him. And in hakumen's MC he actually hints that he know that black beast IS devoured Ragna. Dunno about his feelings on the subject, though.
harmless kitten Posted January 11, 2013 Posted January 11, 2013 I don't think Hakumen would give much of a damn. Hakumen is wholly devoted to his mission of destroying the Black Beast. A part of him still loves Ragna, but he's locked that part up and the only way to get a glimpse of it is in his CT alternate ending. Doesn't he very briefly come across Ragna in Phase 0 though? If Jubei (or Celica) ever told him that his friend's name was Bloodedge, I'm sure he figured it out. Jin's reason for wanting to kill Ragna is simple: first and foremost, he wants to save him by killing him. Second, he is still very childishly possessive of Ragna. That has never changed, and I feel like to expect it to suddenly change for CP is misinterpreting Jin's final scene with Ragna and Jubei. Besides, I wouldn't label him as...sane. Even with Yukianesa's influence broken, he still has a lot of problems. He's not going to get over them anytime soon.
kylehyde Posted January 11, 2013 Posted January 11, 2013 (edited) Yeah, I clearly see how Hakumen casually says to Jubei "Oh, Ragna, yea, nice guy, u're gonna meet him in, like, 100 years, so dont worry so much" C'mon, have a common sense - nobody in Hakumen's situation would say that. Of course they would pretend they didnt even knew him. And in hakumen's MC he actually hints that he know that black beast IS devoured Ragna. Dunno about his feelings on the subject, though. I believe he didn't know him at the start like he says, I don't think he was trying to cover anthing up. I think he learned about it some time later somehow. But at the time of that conversation I feel he didn't know who he was. Jubei never mentions "bloodedge" he meerly says a friend. Edited January 11, 2013 by kylehyde
Surf Posted January 11, 2013 Posted January 11, 2013 and I feel like to expect it to suddenly change for CP is misinterpreting Jin's final scene with Ragna and Jubei. I thought the few weeks training with Jubei would at least have him cut the shit out a little when he say Ragna again. But it's whatever now, he's still crazy so not much can be said.
BlackYakuzu94 Posted January 11, 2013 Posted January 11, 2013 And I think the main reason is Tsubaki. I'm really looking forward to Tsubaki and Jin's roles in the CP story more than any other character. Because I want to witness how they will grow this time around. My inner shipper is excited as well...damn this series for giving me feels with these characters. Funnily enough, I care more about Jin's conflict with Tsubaki than his one with Ragna....go figure. I just really really wish Jin wasn't still a dumbass when he see's Ragna in CP. I still dont understand Mori's decision on making him do that. Well Jin would essentially be a second Hakumen otherwise...plus ya know, gotta please the Yaoi Fangirls. That could be easily accomplished with two simple steps: 1: show openly and clearly why Jin is so hellbent on killing Ragna, so it's no longer the depraved molester's routine and has some actual weight and may even make Ragna consider his little brother enough to actually stop and try to settle things instead of rushing off . 2: make Jin actually win one of their encounter with Ragna not holding back, so whenever Jin shows up again, Ragna knows shit is about to go down (this isn't hard to pull or farfetched if they actually use the power of order given it made Jin strong enough to force Hazama to retreat and survive fine and dandy an encounter with Phantom). Now if Jin actually grows out of the nissan mode and still wants to kill Ragna but with his usual cold and rude attitude, now that would be awesome, because it would mean he has strong reasons for it and can't just blame it on Yukianesa, insanity, Hazama or whatever. But this last part is just my inner fanboy talking. I am sure (and hope) they will settle things when approaching the end of the story and no more rivalry and will team up. The yukianesa thing was kind of a "middle finger", when it was finally going to be shown what's the deal with our jerk, we get a scene cut. Another "aha! this will be answered next episode for the sake of mystery!" that just doesn't help, especially if it's taken in count that probably Ragna knows what happened now and just the players are stuck without knowing. Yeah, it would be easier to take Jin a bit more seriously if he didn't come off as a depraved homosexual. Jin's reason for wanting to kill Ragna is simple: first and foremost, he wants to save him by killing him. I took this with a grain of salt honestly; Jin at that point was still possessed by Yukianesa and was probably too insane to interpret "saving" properly. Second, he is still very childishly possessive of Ragna. That has never changed, and I feel like to expect it to suddenly change for CP is misinterpreting Jin's final scene with Ragna and Jubei. Besides, I wouldn't label him as...sane. Even with Yukianesa's influence broken, he still has a lot of problems. He's not going to get over them anytime soon. This much is true tho, Jin....isn't right in the head, at least when he's around Ragna. I find it interesting how he can be a complete badass when it comes to the likes of Tsubaki or Makoto and how he's so hellbent on protecting them...but then becomes a dumbass around Ragna. It's such an inconsistency; It's like crying over a splinter after you just single handily took down a terrorist organization.
harmless kitten Posted January 11, 2013 Posted January 11, 2013 I don't think so. Jin sounds like he has broken free of Yukianesa's influence at that point; he can still use it when Hakumen challenges him. What he says implies that he's as sane as he'll ever be in CS. The way he reacts to Hakumen talking about Tsubaki implied that he's already fought dark Tsubaki too. "My brother is suffering in his own private hell. It is for that reason that I intend to kill him, to end his pain forever. To save him from the insanity of this world." I think that's only part of the reason he wants to kill Ragna, but it's the clearest one you'll pry out of him. Being told that he's literally destined to kill Ragna can't have helped with those feelings. This much is true tho, Jin....isn't right in the head, at least when he's around Ragna. I find it interesting how he can be a complete badass when it comes to the likes of Tsubaki or Makoto and how he's so hellbent on protecting them...but then becomes a dumbass around Ragna. It's such an inconsistency; It's like crying over a splinter after you just single handily took down a terrorist organization. wat Jin has always been like this, from CT arcade onward. It would be more inconsistent if he suddenly stopped acting like a brat around Ragna in CP. Ragna is his weak spot, one of the things that brings out the childish, ugly part of himself, much like how Noel brings out his hateful envy and disgust. Is it so hard to believe that he can act differently around different people?
Iron Maw Posted January 11, 2013 Posted January 11, 2013 wat Jin has always been like this, from CT arcade onward. It would be more inconsistent if he suddenly stopped acting like a brat around Ragna in CP. Ragna is his weak spot, one of the things that brings out the childish, ugly part of himself, much like how Noel brings out his hateful envy and disgust. Is it so hard to believe that he can act differently around different people? I wonder if Jin will ever get over his irrational hatred of Noel. He literally see her as some sort of monster, despite never doing anything to him throughout his life. in CS story mode's he even goes as far to blame her for things that aren't her fault and in CP wanting to kill her in their VS intro.
NovaFortuna Posted January 12, 2013 Posted January 12, 2013 (edited) As with all with him, there are just implications and no straight answers about it. I think it's likely Jin will get over his hatred for Noel and his niisaan, but if they actually use his character for something and stop just giving us setups that aren't mentioned again. I insist once again, Jin carries several good ideas on him that would make him a pretty interesting chracter and even relevant to the plot if were used properly, but they are poorly executed and he just comes as a sissy joke villian for Ragna and the evil step mother to Noel's cinderella. Gee, sometimes I wonder if Mori didn't make Jin to make his two main heroes look better. Edited January 12, 2013 by NovaFortuna
Ctrlaltwtf Posted January 13, 2013 Posted January 13, 2013 (edited) Dear Story Thread, Noel is dumb lololol I am best character in this game. -Hazama Jin is just a completely failed character in my eyes. Nothing he does is remotely likable or relatable, and most of it doesn't even make the slightest bit of sense. p.s Dustloop doesn't think relatable is a word. p.s.s. I don't believe Haku-men will survive BlazBlue's story. I mean that seriously. Edited January 13, 2013 by Ctrlaltwtf
YukiBlue Posted January 13, 2013 Posted January 13, 2013 Litchi and Jin. Two of the most pointless characters. Ever.
TPPR10 Posted January 13, 2013 Posted January 13, 2013 I would ask why Litchi is is pointless, but I'd rather avoid taking up multiple pages of long posts talking about one character, thank you very much. P.S. I like Litchi due of the her relation with Arakune.
kylehyde Posted January 13, 2013 Posted January 13, 2013 p.s.s. I don't believe Haku-men will survive BlazBlue's story. I mean that seriously. I do hope this happens, he should go out defeating Terumi though.
Zangelin Posted January 13, 2013 Posted January 13, 2013 I love Jin :< I love him the way he is, the way he's a cold a-hole to everyone and goes full Yandere on Ragna. His development in CS was neat and interessting though. Characters don't have to be relatable, if you can relate to all characters than thats pretty horrendously boring.
SkyBarrier101 Posted January 13, 2013 Posted January 13, 2013 Saying another character is dumb and pointless just means that you are dumb and pointless as well, end of discussion ^_^
NovaFortuna Posted January 13, 2013 Posted January 13, 2013 (edited) Jin is just a completely failed character in my eyes. Nothing he does is remotely likable or relatable, and most of it doesn't even make the slightest bit of sense. p.s Dustloop doesn't think relatable is a word. p.s.s. I don't believe Haku-men will survive BlazBlue's story. I mean that seriously. Kind goes with my point: good ideas poor execution. He had material, but every way of using Jin was screwed up big time. He is not a completely pointless character, he is a completely wasted character. And yeah, I'd be surprised it if Hakumen lives to see the games ending, he'll probably pass the torch or something. Edited January 13, 2013 by NovaFortuna
BlackYakuzu94 Posted January 13, 2013 Posted January 13, 2013 I called Hakumen dying a loong time ago, how else is Jin supposed to drop his balls if his alternate self continues to outclass him in.....well everything. The sad thing is, when that does inevitably happen, you know people are going to bitch how Jin isn't Hakumen and can never replace him.
Surf Posted January 13, 2013 Posted January 13, 2013 The main aspect of Jin i can relate to is his caring side to Tsubaki. Like I mentioned before, Im a sucker for love in stories. Seeing them reminds me of me and my fiance (minus the drama). Jin really isnt that bad people. I think the problem is is that we're comparing him to alot of other characters and their actions rather than looking at him as a singular. WoF Jin gave up everything to encounter Ragna and also lost everything in the process. The current Jin is growing and already stronger than his WoF counterpart. Keyword is growing, we're watching him go through the process of whats really important to him at the end of the day. Which is Tsubaki. Not everyone will like a character but imo he's really not that bad. Not amazing, but not useless/worthless either. I also think Hakumen will pass away before the story is over as well. I honestly think the remaining Six Heroes wont make it to the end of the series tbh.
Ctrlaltwtf Posted January 13, 2013 Posted January 13, 2013 (edited) I do hope this happens, he should go out defeating Terumi though. I see Haku-men and Valkenhayn teaming up to take down Terumi. I see Jubei being the one to kill Phantom, then trying and failing to kill whoever-ends-up-being-the-final-boss-of-everything. I see Jubei & Ragna having a brief respite from the action where Jubei somehow passes some uber power onto Ragna before dieing himself, then Ragna finishes the story. And then just to be efficient, Platinum gets killed by some totally random and arbitrary reason. Edited January 13, 2013 by Ctrlaltwtf
TPPR10 Posted January 13, 2013 Posted January 13, 2013 I don't see why Platinum would die in the story. Luna and Sena, that is, Trinity's soul finally passing away would be given if the Six Heroes would go down.
BlackYakuzu94 Posted January 13, 2013 Posted January 13, 2013 So let's breakdown how we all think each hero will die: Hakumen: It's gotta be something badass, and I highly doubt he'll beat Terumi...that seems like Ragna's job. Valkenhayn: I dunno, a heroic sacrifice to protect Rachel would be fitting. Jubei: Being a mentor, he'll probably die giving last advice to Ragna...or die along with Phantom in a "together in death" sort of thing. Nine/Phantom: see above, although we know shit about her so it's a bit hard. Trinity: Maybe she forgives herself about what happened with Kazuma and passes on? Hazama/Terumi: Well he's either going to die trolling the world one last time as a big "fuck you" to everyone, or he's going to die in the most humiliating and karmic way possible.
mAc Chaos Posted January 13, 2013 Posted January 13, 2013 Jin mans up and defeats Terumi, final battle ends up being the destined duel between Ragna and Jin.
redsilversnake Posted January 13, 2013 Posted January 13, 2013 Nah. The series will end with everyone but Terumi and Relius alive, with Nine reverting from Phantom and just needing something easily obtained to sustain herself while she and Jubei get back together with Kokonoe, Trinity staying with Luna and Sena, Valkenhayn continuing to serve Rachel, and Hakumen roaming the world. Everyone's happy in one big flowery ending with only a tinge of bittersweetness. Calling it now, Heaven's Feel True End all over again.
BlackYakuzu94 Posted January 13, 2013 Posted January 13, 2013 Jin mans up and defeats Terumi, final battle ends up being the destined duel between Ragna and Jin. I'd laugh if the rival ended up being the one who saves the day and not the main character. That like never happens in these types of scenarios.
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