mMarikom Posted February 26, 2013 Posted February 26, 2013 Please correct me if I'm wrong but can someone explain to me how Rachel is able to be killed by Izayoi in the first place? I know she got "weaker" supposedly after losing Takamagahara Observer status but like...she's still a Vampire... Even in her bad ending in CS the worst that happened to her was Phantom locking her away in darkness. She wasn't dead she was just...trapped. I don't get the concept of Rachel suddenly being able to die. To my knowledge Rachel was still relatively up there in terms of power as far as canon strength went despite Takamagahara telling her LOLnope after she used Tsukuyomi. Am I wrong and just forgetting or missed something...
SkyBarrier101 Posted February 26, 2013 Posted February 26, 2013 I wish I knew Japanese... I wish I knew Japanese... SCREW YOU HIGH SCHOOL PROGRAM
mAc Chaos Posted February 26, 2013 Posted February 26, 2013 Please correct me if I'm wrong but can someone explain to me how Rachel is able to be killed by Izayoi in the first place? I know she got "weaker" supposedly after losing Takamagahara Observer status but like...she's still a Vampire... Even in her bad ending in CS the worst that happened to her was Phantom locking her away in darkness. She wasn't dead she was just...trapped. I don't get the concept of Rachel suddenly being able to die. To my knowledge Rachel was still relatively up there in terms of power as far as canon strength went despite Takamagahara telling her LOLnope after she used Tsukuyomi. Am I wrong and just forgetting or missed something... Well, I would assume she would let herself get killed in this instance. It might not be that she is unkillable but just that she's too strong to let Hazama or others kill her if she is resisted. But if she just wants to die then it would be a different story. After all, something had to happen to her old man.
Dawn of Musou Posted February 26, 2013 Posted February 26, 2013 So Amane apparently can't age. And Bullet got traumatized by folk music. What.
Yazumatto Posted February 26, 2013 Posted February 26, 2013 I like to believe the first fixed fight in many of the arcade modes are throwaways for a little bit of humor or storybuilding for another character. I mean, how else were we going to know Bullet hates folk music?
mMarikom Posted February 26, 2013 Posted February 26, 2013 but I thought clavis died of old age... From what I remember he was in a wheelchair and old as dirt. And Rachel looked slightly younger than she does now. And that was back in the Six Heroes days. I assumed that the lifespan of a Vampire spanned a really really really long time and Clavis just happened to be at the end of it (but a lot of my vampire basis is from GG story...which this isn't). But between that and the fact that her in battle animations are slayer/elizabeth incarnate and she never actually fights by herself or takes battle damage (she falls asleep and merely gets bored of fighting) it just doesn't make sense to me that she can die. Actually since it was brought up how strong IS Rachel as CP? Was Hazama only parading around her unafraid because he had Pha9tom's magic to take care of her or did she actually get a lot weaker or something? I figured that she was around Six Hero power but not quite Murakumo power...but was essentially unkillable given the things I mentioned before.
Velvien Posted February 26, 2013 Posted February 26, 2013 An important note from another translator: apparently, Izayoi is the trigger for the Chrono Phantasma. So I assume Rachel has something planned if she's asking to be killed by it after Ragna dies.
mMarikom Posted February 26, 2013 Posted February 26, 2013 Again sorry for the fail but what IS a chrono phantasma exactly >_>
TPPR10 Posted February 26, 2013 Posted February 26, 2013 Uhh, Marikom, vampires aren't utterly invinsible. They can die, just with certain ways. Also, the fact that she herself never gets damaged is due of Nago and Gii are acting as all-time meat shields to her. I bet even her would get her ppretty face handed to her without them around. Just sayian. Heck the fact that Clavis died from old age means that they do age to the point where they cannot go any further, even though vampires normally are immortal.
NumeroGaijin Posted February 26, 2013 Posted February 26, 2013 Take this with a grain of salt. I believe I also remember reading somewhere that none of the Observer's can be killed. They would just be fighting over and over and over for nothing. Remember when Valk fought Relius and Relius was like sure we can fight but it would just be pointless anyway. When Rachel lost her Observer status, she is no longer bound by the rule that Valk and Relius and a few of the others are bound by. Therefore now, she is killable though she is quite strong. If Rachel made Jin into Hakumen I doubt he should be stronger than her. This could be wrong but I believe that is why. And no I don't have sources but this was pretty much gathered by playing the game and by reading what I can
Zedar90 Posted February 26, 2013 Posted February 26, 2013 Observers aren't really unkillable, sure just poking each other with sword wont kill each other however observers have one giant weakness and that is that they must always observe them self and failure to do so would more or less erase oneself. Rachel said in Litchi ending that Kokonoe had observed Hakumen, Arakune and herself at the same time and that she would never do something like that herself. I dont know whatever Rachel was killed or not however the Izayoi was made as a anti observer if i recall correctly so if something should be able to kill a observer it would be it. After all Izayoi steal "light" and no "light" it would be hard to observe.
harmless kitten Posted February 26, 2013 Posted February 26, 2013 Yes, Kokonoe states that Izayoi was made with one purpose: to counter observers. It sucks in and neutralizes any attempt at observation or phenomena intervention, among over things. Do observers observe themselves? That seems weird. I thought it was previously implied that an observer cannot observe oneself, just like an eye cannot normally see itself. Hence why Hakumen is tied to Rachel, and Terumi had to rely on Noel and now the Imperator. Although, Rachel is stated to be an uncertain/external factor, which implies that she has an observer tucked away somewhere. Maybe she can observe herself. @NumeroGaijin: :? Where was that stated? And really, Rachel never stopped being an observer. She just turned down Takamgahara's offer.
Zedar90 Posted February 26, 2013 Posted February 26, 2013 Yes, Kokonoe states that Izayoi was made with one purpose: to counter observers. It sucks in and neutralizes any attempt at observation or phenomena intervention, among over things. Do observers observe themselves? That seems weird. I thought it was previously implied that an observer cannot observe oneself, just like an eye cannot normally see itself. Hence why Hakumen is tied to Rachel, and Terumi had to rely on Noel and now the Imperator. Although, Rachel is stated to be an uncertain/external factor, which implies that she has an observer tucked away somewhere. Maybe she can observe herself. @NumeroGaijin: :? Where was that stated? And really, Rachel never stopped being an observer. She just turned down Takamgahara's offer. Yes, observers must observe them self if they do not they will disappear, cease to exist. That is what I remembered when I saw litchis ending and also what is written in the blog. I think that observers and the EYE isn't the same thing. The EYE is probably only a proxy for the Master Unit and it is the Master Unit who is really observing but I'm not sure.
harmless kitten Posted February 26, 2013 Posted February 26, 2013 Well, I'm just comparing a real eye to "standard" observation and phenomena intervention, not super special Successor of the Azure powers. A human eye cannot see itself without the help of outside sources, like a mirror. I don't ever recall anything about an observer being able to observe oneself (hell, I don't remember anything about self-observation except a short bit in the Sector Seven sidestory). Scads of text devoted to how an external factor needs an observer, yeah, but nothing about an observer having to observe themselves. Oh well. Maybe it's something new, with Takamagahara borked and all.
kylehyde Posted February 26, 2013 Posted February 26, 2013 I'm sorry but why on earth would Rachel want to die if Ragna gets killed? He's died before in previous loops and that didn't make her want to die.
Circuitous Posted February 26, 2013 Posted February 26, 2013 'Cuz they're not in timeloops anymore, and as an observer she's fully aware of that. If Ragna dies now, he dies for realsies.
Zedar90 Posted February 26, 2013 Posted February 26, 2013 Perhaps that when you become a observer you remove yourself from the world and need constant energy to stay since you technically don't exist anymore. I have a feeling that the world of Blazblue is very similar to a computer simulation and when you try to get some admin access by becoming a observer you must be careful not to get pulled out of the simulation since you have one foot outside it.
YoYoCheese Posted February 27, 2013 Posted February 27, 2013 (edited) All credit goes to tremain07. Tager's arcade Vs Litchi Litchi asks him to get her in touch with Kokonoe Tager want's to know what she's doing in Ikaruga before Litchi can answer Kokonoe pops up and tells her she found a way to do something for Arakune with observation but can't because Arakune is already being observed by someone else..Yuki Terumi, she becomes outraged calls Litchi an idiot and for Tager to not forgive her and the fight starts ending with Litchi fleeing because Tager apparently missed his killing strike. He offers to give chase but Kokonoe tells him to focus on his mission. Vs Arakune Tager is surprised to see him in Ikaruga then senses something Kokonoe pops up saying that somebody has been feeding Arakune more seither, Arakune just mumbles that the wedge of Kushinada, Tager says nothing and Kokonoe gives the order to kill him, fight starts and like Litchi's it ends because Tager held back and Arakune flees leaving Tager to wonder if he did it on purpose because he still thinks of him as a comrade. Vs Makoto Tager calls Kokonoe to inform her he's found Makoto, Kokonoe appears and demands to know where Noel ran off to and for both of them to get back to sector seven this instant. Makoto says she can't her and Noel got a real bad feeling upon learning Tsubaki was in Ikaruga so they just had to come, Kokonoe orders Tager to restrain and capture her and the fight starts....after some more whining from Makoto (she even does the sparkly eyes thing) The ground suddenly shakes and Tager senses something he tells Makoto not to move from their current location and heads off. Vs Relius Relius is talking about imitation weapons when Kokonoe intrudes (sheesh can't Tager talk to someone without her butting in?) wanting to know what he did to Roy he now has the same body number 11 has Relius says it's because a body he can make is much more easily observed and that he has come in contact with something called the "fluid element" magic. Kokonoe then asks what he plans to do to Litchi, Relius responds that she's become worthless to him since she tried to become an observer despite having to much emotional turmoil, Both angered, Kokonoe orders Tager to kill Reilus and the fight starts. I can't tell who is speaking but whoever it is orders Relius to apologize to their friend he ignores this and says that Tager or Kokonoe is still immature. Suddenly we are back outside Ikubdo ruins with Tager it seems like it's before Calamity Trigger because he's talking about having to avoid Kagura the black knight and recover the bodies of numbers 11 and 12. while Tager is talking Kokonoe is seen with that shocked expression from the trailer she seems to realize that due to the Imperator time is getting screwed up turning Ikaruga into a time intervention battle ground between the master unit and the Imperator. EDIT: Noel's arcade Vs Amane Amane mistakes Noel for a boy and ask her to join his dance troupe,Noel is not happy about this and attacks him in a rage ending with Amane on the ground apologizing and Noel leaves in a huff Vs Rachel Noel is suddenly in Kagusuchi she wonders why she's back here when Rachel appears, She says that due to the Imperator and the power of the eye Ikaruga is in a slew of time and spacial distortions and that the Kagusuchi she seems before her is not real. Noel says she wants to help her friends so Rachel ops for a test provide Noel can prove herself cue fight. Vs Nu Noel again wonders where she is then notes that this must be the test Rachel was talking about, Nu 13 now stands in front of her noteing her sister unit Noel starts the fight (it's an illusion of Nu so she has no lines) Vs Mu Noel faces off against Mu noting that she represents all of Noel's hatred (Mu doesn't appear to have any lines either). Anyway the fight ends and Rachel re appears telling Noel to claim her reward, the power of the azure Noel then looks at herself in Mu form and says that she'll fight as a person, a human being, as Noel until the very end..Rachel makes a person note that Ragna has been ab influence on Noel Jin arcade Vs Ragna Same ole same **** Jin wants to kill him, Ragna is annoyed fight starts ends with a stalemate as both parties have other stuff to be doing then cutting each other up Vs Hakumen Jin feels very familar with Hakumen for some reason but can't figure out what, Hakumen wants to test him and starts a fight....apparently Jin has leveled up from the ass beating Hakumen gave him in continuum shift he leaves Tsubaki to him saying only he can save her Vs Tsubaki same as Tsubaki's arcade mode Vs Izayoi Izayoi says she will kill Jin then the others for defying the Imperator, Jin then remembers his own experience at being controlled by his sword and urges Tsubaki to not become a mere weapon which apparently seems to cause a reaction in her however it's a to be continued deal. Hazama's arcade I'll skip Makoto since her scene is already up and subbed Vs Platinum Luna and Sena have both come to kill Terumi for Jubei's sake however it goes just as well as you'd expect however before Hazama can land a killing blow Phantom teleports the kids away causing Hazama to freak out and wonder if Nine is starting to break free of his control Vs Jin Jin demands his memories back from him Hazama says he can't give them back since he ate them already tough luck but he does explain that he used Jin because he wanted Tenjo and the location of the device, Jin calls me disgusting and the fight starts....it gets nasty so Hazama runs away Vs Ragna Ragna storms in yelling that he wants to know Saya's location Hazama ignores him and says he is a Biometric Key cue fight...after it ends Hazama is standing with his foot on Ragna's face as he's about to finish him Tager bursts in with Kokonoe stating she'll do anything to destroy Terumi and she's found out the weakness of the Blazblue as she orders Tager to open that thing we see in the arcade opening Ragna's eye and arm stop working as well as Hazama's Blazblue, he utters a YOU!!! as Ceclia pops out of that thing. END Edited February 27, 2013 by YoYoCheese
harmless kitten Posted February 27, 2013 Posted February 27, 2013 (edited) I'm sorry but why on earth would Rachel want to die if Ragna gets killed? He's died before in previous loops and that didn't make her want to die. BB has been building up the idea that Rachel is crazy obsessed with Ragna. With this, it's made apparent that if he's gone for good, she doesn't want to live. During the loops, she knows that she'll see him again. She has to watch him die over and over, but she's still striding for a timeline in which he lives. In CP, if he and Nu die, he ain't coming back.* No take backs, no more seeing him again, no more hearing him call her a leech or a rabbit. I guess Rachel doesn't give a damn about this world if she doesn't have a Ragna to ridicule and faff over. *Barring stuff like as of now unknown revival methods or deus ex machina. "Same body number 11" elicits a big whuh? from me. I hope that's a misinterpretation of shitty google translate. Edited February 27, 2013 by harmless kitten
mAc Chaos Posted February 27, 2013 Posted February 27, 2013 Well, spend eternity looking after someone and you would probably become attached to them.
mMarikom Posted February 27, 2013 Posted February 27, 2013 (edited) It's Mariko homie And the Rachel stuff makes sense. I just base a lot of my BB vampire lore on GG because we don't have too much vampire info. But I mean Hazama has kicked Rachel in the face before. She bled because he hit her in the mouth but otherwise didn't really give a damn about the kick itself, and he only kicked her after Phantom made sure she wouldn't be able to retaliate. As far as being immortal goes, my assumption was due to her being a vampire not an observer. Izayoi being anti observer and deadly to them makes perfect sense simply because if an observer can't observe they fade away. I feel like this is what she means instead of her simply beating the garbage out of Rachel because it's not like Hazama can't call up Phantom to hold her down and then wail on her until he's bored or she dies. Edited February 27, 2013 by mMarikom
BlackYakuzu94 Posted February 27, 2013 Posted February 27, 2013 BB has been building up the idea that Rachel is crazy obsessed with Ragna. With this, it's made apparent that if he's gone for good, she doesn't want to live. During the loops, she knows that she'll see him again. She has to watch him die over and over, but she's still striding for a timeline in which he lives. In CP, if he and Nu die, he ain't coming back.* No take backs, no more seeing him again, no more hearing him call her a leech or a rabbit. I guess Rachel doesn't give a damn about this world if she doesn't have a Ragna to ridicule and faff over. *Barring stuff like as of now unknown revival methods or deus ex machina. "Same body number 11" elicits a big whuh? from me. I hope that's a misinterpretation of shitty google translate. My OTP is finally canon(at least on one end) <3
Tokkan Posted February 27, 2013 Posted February 27, 2013 Tremain completely misinterpreted Tager's ending. It's not before Calamity Trigger, it's on 1/30 and Tager's talking about giving access to Cameras 1 through 12 to Kagura, not retrieving the bodies of 11 and 12. He also says he hasn't found "those two" yet(referring to Noel and Makoto).
kylehyde Posted February 27, 2013 Posted February 27, 2013 'Cuz they're not in timeloops anymore, and as an observer she's fully aware of that. If Ragna dies now, he dies for realsies. Oh yeah, whoops my mistake on that one. Though its kind of funny, I knew she liked him but never in a "I'll kill myself if he dies" kind of way. But she kind of watched over everyone didn't she? I mean, it wasn't just Ragna but Noel and Jin too right? On a side note, what was that stuff she was saying to Jin? I couldn't really piece any of it together.
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