[CP1.1] Makoto Nanaya's Gameplay Discussion - When's 2.0?

[milesw]

Matsu and Eda are leaving Makoto :v

Nerf to PF? translate anyone?

Final hit damage nerf

[StarGazer]

So let's see here

 

Makoto's 6B can do ground bounce, and her corner damage has increased.

But her mid screen damage was nerfed slightly along with her corner carry, and her j.B's untechable time.

 

I'm not sure if these changes even out or not, but I guess time will tell. 

 

If she has better corner damage though, that might keep her viable.

 

No, where did you get that from?

[Wild Candy]

I heard it from Onnix on a skype group... sorry... Did I get that wrong? 

[Keech]

Add revolver table to wiki. Can someone check it for mistakes?

[Teutonicknight]

This doesn't sound very fun at all for Makoto players. I'm seeing nothing but bad from these changes, and Acorn is sounding rather disappointing now, whether it be non-tracking, or the %10 chance of it to actually activate. And we lost a tool and a good chunk of damage for this? Man, there's some anti-Makoto people at Arc for sure now.

 

I really don't see how Makoto's going to keep up now, there's way too much against her to really see any positives.

...and the title change is rather fitting.

[Bibiquadium]

At least Goro is still repping that 1.1 Makoto

[Teutonicknight]

One player should not dictate an "at least" response. This still sucks for him and the other players, does it not?

The only step they didn't take is remove her from the game. What are the positives here? No joke, I am pretty upset with all this.

[Bibiquadium]

You can keep complaining and change of character, or deal with it, adapt, and play her. No one said you were forced to play her.

[Teutonicknight]

I'll stop complaining, but I still don't know why they'd do this for nearly 3 games to one specific character, who happens to be the one I actually like. It's hard to not be at least a bit aggravated. Is there news of any redeeming changes in the future? I am trying to find good things to look forward to, but they are becoming hard to come by.

[swordsman09]

I just read the changes. I already knew that j.B>j.D wasn't going to work anymore from the start but nerf to OD PF? That is unacceptable.

 

Our OD wasn't even that bad compared to a character like Hakumen. Now we barely do damage at all.

[Teutonicknight]

How much damage did we potentially lose off OD?

[milesw]

So let's see here

Makoto's 6B can do ground bounce, and her corner damage has increased.

But her mid screen damage was nerfed slightly along with her corner carry, and her j.B's untechable time.

I'm not sure if these changes even out or not, but I guess time will tell.

If she has better corner damage though, that might keep her viable.

No this is correct

How much damage did we potentially lose off OD?

Ill check tomorrow, its definitely noticeable though

[Yazumatto]

I gotta watch those new videos then. Goro is still an enigma to this day. I still can't tell if he genuinely likes Makoto or if he just wants a challenge since he's a master of the neutral game. He could also just want to keep his character specialist status.

Or he didn't have time to learn a new character in his little free time.

...w/e.

Eda already left a while ago. Do we know who Matsu is playing now? I wanna say Valk for some reason.

[OmnixTSC]

snip

 

I mostly just said that a lot of the changes evened out for the most part. She lost damage in areas and got it in others. I didn't see the PF nerf, though. That's kinda funny.

 

She did lose accessibility to oki options, though. Especially since it's harder to set it up without completely killing your damage.

[Wild Candy]

it's not completely terrible.

 

Makoto still has a decent damage output as far as character's go without resources, and she's always excelled in the corner, so it creates a bigger reward when performing corner combos.

 

the OD nerf is frustrating, but you have to take the good with the bad. 

 

bottom line though, whining isn't an option. Either suck it up, or change mains. 

[Dark Ranger88]

Ehh I don't really mind the changes much, because it's nothing really major. I'm still just trying to improve.

 

I've been having problems in neutral with people who like to go into the air and jump a lot. Here are the method's I've tried to employ to stop it.

 

1.) Anti-air 6A: I can AA regular jump ins and airdashes for the most part, but Makoto's 6A is really easy to bait or make whiff, because it has such short horizontal/diagonal range. Double jumps, IAD crossups, and air stall baits (Tager's j.2C, Swallow Moon etc.) can blow 6A up for big damage while you are still stuck in recovery, so staying on the ground like a good little squirrel doesn't always work for me. Also there are certain attacks that can be spaced properly to make your 6A whiff (Kagura's j.C, Kokonoe's j.2C, Haku's j.2C, Ragna j.C) These attacks will also hit you if you try to low profile 2B them.

 

2.) Air-to-air j.A/j.B./j.C/Airthrow: If I think a person is going to try and double jump or bait my AA, I sometimes go into the air to catch them while they're vulnerable, usually with a j.A or j.B. The obvious problem with this is that most characters vastly out-range you in the air, so if I guess wrong I can eat someone's j.C into a combo and oki. Another annoying thing about our air moves is that none of them hit level with Makoto or below her (aside from j.C which is too slow for air-to-air battles). For example, here's what happens when Makoto and Bang airdash at each other: j.A whiffs high, j.B whiffs high, j.C is beaten by Bang's j.A, airthrow is iffy.

 

Also going air to air relies a little bit on prediction. If you jump into their airspace and they decided to say on the ground, you put yourself in a bad spot and could potentially get AA'd yourself.

 

3.) Backdash, IAD back: Sometimes you can IAD away from their approach attack and recover in time to 5B/2A your opponent, or (if you space it right) backdash their just outside of their range for the same effect. This again relies on prediction rather than reaction (especially IAD back). If you rely on this tactic and your opponent knows it they can simply over-pursue and catch you.

 

4.) 2B low profile: Certain approach attacks can be low profiled (like Jin, Haku, and Mu's j.Cs). If your opponent likes to poke from afar using these moves you can 2B under them. However they all have moves that will also hit your 2B when used, so you can't rely on this tactic.

 

Is there anyone who is really good at handling aerial opponents who could give me some advice? Every countermeasure I use seems to have a hard counter that beats it clean. Do I just have to Yomi out what my opponent is going to do or is there some sort of gameplan that can handle all aerial approaches if it is executed properly?

 

 

Edit: Also I'm loving the new avatars Teutonic and Swordsman.

[Teutonicknight]

She did lose accessibility to oki options, though. Especially since it's harder to set it up without completely killing your damage.

Her overall oki is better than Ex, but still lost some options out of it? I'm curious, what changes affected that?

[StarGazer]

Add revolver table to wiki. Can someone check it for mistakes?

 

Done editing it. It was full of mistakes, I might be still missing some gatlings here or there tho.

 

I'll stop complaining, but I still don't know why they'd do this for nearly 3 games to one specific character, who happens to be the one I actually like. It's hard to not be at least a bit aggravated. Is there news of any redeeming changes in the future? I am trying to find good things to look forward to, but they are becoming hard to come by.

 

People still call her good. The community has spoken, she shall stay low (´・ω・｀)

 

I just read the changes. I already knew that j.B>j.D wasn't going to work anymore from the start but nerf to OD PF? That is unacceptable.

 

Our OD wasn't even that bad compared to a character like Hakumen. Now we barely do damage at all.

 

If BlueEyes tweet is correct, then PF (the normal version without OD) is also nerfed

 

No this is correct

Ill check tomorrow, its definitely noticeable though

 

Corner damage got worse. Yeah true going for air ender would still lead to 4K. But what matters is the oki granting combos.

 

Her overall oki is better than Ex, but still lost some options out of it? I'm curious, what changes affected that?

 

j.B nerf made it so our combo route in corner can't deal as much damage while saving the orb oki. But going for Air ender should grant as much damage as we did in BBCP1.0 as air enders squeeze what left of combo proration.

 

Edit: I need a better avatar

[Teutonicknight]

j.B nerf made it so our combo route in corner can't deal as much damage while saving the orb oki. But going for Air ender should grant as much damage as we did in BBCP1.0 as air enders squeeze what left of combo proration.

 

Edit: I need a better avatar

Yikes... That's not good. And normal PF nerfed too possibly? FFS.

 

New avy? just let me know what you have in mind if you want me to do it.

[OmnixTSC]

Corner damage got worse. Yeah true going for air ender would still lead to 4K. But what matters is the oki granting combos.

 

Average corner damage got worse, but our max corner damage improved a decent amount. I think that's a fair trade, honestly. 

[Teutonicknight]

Average corner damage got worse, but our max corner damage improved a decent amount. I think that's a fair trade, honestly. 

I'm wondering how that's possible with the OD nerf and a PF nerf as well.

[swordsman09]

If BlueEyes tweet is correct, then PF (the normal version without OD) is also nerfed

Now THAT is just unacceptable. They're trying to make us resort to using her oki that of which is being nerfed as well. I'm actually starting to believe that Mori's trying to drive Makoto players out so that they force us to support characters like Bullet and Izayoi.

 

Probably Noel too since she's the main heroine and she's getting some character development.

 

Oh you Mori.

[OmniSScythe]

Just to clear up some stuff.

Average corner damage got worse, but our max corner damage improved a decent amount. I think that's a fair trade, honestly. 

 

"Max" corner damage is actually weaken by only 33 damage lol.  Everything is exactly the same as 1.0 outside of the asteroid vision route combos and stuff involving j.BD or air hit 6B.

 

Also normal PF didn't lose any damage, It's still 200/200/700.

[Teutonicknight]

Just to clear up some stuff.

 

"Max" corner damage is actually weaken by only 33 damage lol.  Everything is exactly the same as CP1 outside of the asteroid vision route combos and stuff involving j.BD or air hit 6B.

 

Also normal PF didn't lose any damage, It's still 200/200/700.

Then what's this nerf everyone is talking about to it? Proration maybe?

edit: oh, NORMAL PF is untouched. But the OD version's nerf is confirmed, correct?

Now THAT is just unacceptable. They're trying to make us resort to using her oki that of which is being nerfed as well. I'm actually starting to believe that Mori's trying to drive Makoto players out so that they force us to support characters like Bullet and Izayoi.

 

Probably Noel too since she's the main heroine and she's getting some character development.

 

Oh you Mori. 

 

I probably wouldn't be surprised if this was true. I can understand some priorities, but come on... Put the attention where it really counts. You have fans of this character suffering here, Mori.

[OmniSScythe]

Then what's this nerf everyone is talking about to it? Proration maybe?

edit: oh, NORMAL PF is untouched. But the OD version's nerf is confirmed, correct?

I probably wouldn't be surprised if this was true. I can understand some priorities, but come on... Put the attention where it really counts.

Proration is the same.

 

Outside of j.B's hitstun nerf which might have affected stuff not shown in Kuroku videos.

 

You can definitely still get oki:

 

I know 2A starter in corner is around 200 damage weaker, and 5B starter is 200 less as well since you can't get 2C > 236A~D > 5CC > j.BD to connect.