[CP1.1] Makoto Nanaya's Gameplay Discussion - When's 2.0?

[Goldchampion200]

Wow

"Is Makoto a poor black girl from the hood? Never before have I seen a fighting game character designed around the concept of 'the struggle.'"

WOW WOW

I'm done

Weren't you already done? How can you be done twice? It makes no sense.

[Angry Guy of DE]

To Be Makoto is to know the struggle, especially in a world where Ragna has a legit mix-up with airdash Inferno Divider and we hope that our reversal can hit the guy right next to us.

It really is a ghetto upper-cut compared to Inferno Divider.

[Justice7541]

Ragna's entire character is pretty much designed around Inferno Divider. If he didn't have it he'd be... almost as bad as Makoto lol.

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[Dark Ranger88]

I'm just glad we have a reversal. It makes people play you differently on wakeup.

Yes people can just 2B under it on our wakeup. People starting their pressure strings with 2B is good though. Wakeup throw, wakeup overhead, 2A into high/low/throw mixup, jumping attacks (as long as they aren't safejumps), wakeup CT, and wakeup command grab all lose to Corona upper.

Plus it's hitbox isn't THAT bad guys. If you use it during an opponent's blockstring you'll usually catch a part of their hurtbox that sticks out when they are attacking.

[mAc Chaos]

my favorite is bursting through it just like with ID, then watching them soar up into the air while i recover

[Dark Ranger88]

my favorite is bursting through it just like with ID, then watching them soar up into the air while i recover

Do you mean in combos or when you get hit with the reversal raw. This could be a useful technique, especially with Makoto's dash speed.

"Oh you ID'd me huh. Great! Now it's time for you to eat 3.5K."

Edit: NVM they still recover before you do. And even invincible distortions still get hit by the burst.

Double Edit: Actually it works against Makoto and Litchi if you are near the ground when you burst.

If a Makoto likes to end her combos with 6C > DP you can burst when the 6C hits you. You'll recover in time to 5C counter hit her.

If you know when a Litchi will do her DP during a combo you can burst the hit before the DP. You'll recover before she does, but the staff will frame trap you on the way down.

To get around this you can DP rapid after you recover from burst (the staff will go through your invuln frames). You'll either hit her with the DP leading to a combo, or you can start pressuring her if she blocked it.

OR you can parry the staff and if she was pressing any buttons you can lvl3 Space Counter > Rapid into a corner combo of your choice.

The first option is safer, but the second option has way more reward and style.

Edited January 31, 2014 by Dark Ranger88

[StarGazer]

Air Corona upper has invu now, which means people can burst on it and make you whiff. Grounded dp was almost never used in our combos except now with 6C DP ender

[Dark Ranger88]

Here is a list of all reversals in the game that can be beaten by using the 2A > (1)B option select.

Amane: Drill Reversal Super

Azrael: Growler Field(DP), Scud Punishment(DD), Patriot Apocalypse(AH)

Bullet: Cutting Shear(DP), Hard Kill Bringer(AH)

Jin: C DP, D DP, Ice Arrows(DD), - Note: LOSES to Yukikaze(DD)

Kokonoe: Teleport, SuperBall, Tager Laser

Litchi: Tsubame Gaeshi(DP), Thirteen Orphans(DD), All Terminals(DD)

Platinum: Magical Bat(Both versions), Cure Dot Typhoon(DD)

Relius: Req Vinum(Gear DD), Altar of the Puppet(AH)

Tsubaki: Benedictus Rex(DP, both versions), Confutatis Maledictis(DD), Requiem Aeternam(AH)

Valkenhayn: Sturm Wolf(DD), Blut Vollmond(AH)

v-13: Calamity Sword(DD)

Note: Some of these are harder to pull the OS off. Generally the faster reversals require more precise timing from your meaty 2A.

Let me know if I got anything wrong plz.

[OmnixTSC]

Note: LOSES to Yukikaze(DD)

Da gawd now and forever

[StarGazer]

Makoto

6B – Now groundbounces an opponent on airhit

Crush Trigger – Decreased hitstun time on ground hit

Jump B – Decreased untechable time. Can now be canceled directly into jump D.

source: http://shoryuken.com/2014/02/13/arc-system-works-releases-changelist-for-upcoming-blazblue-chronophantasma-balance-patch/

Comments:

-6B change is vague, we don't know how the bounce is gonna be. Will it be good enough to connect 236A/CT after? or at least 5D/2D/214AA>2A? or will it be limited only to 6B5C? Is it gonna be air techable? I kinda feel that the whole point of this change is to remove 6B > 236A oki, hope im mistaken.

-CT > OD won't work anymore? Either way its definitely a nerf, but barely noticeable.

-j.B untechable time is nerfed, apperantly the nerf is so bad that j.B > jc j.D doesn't work anymore so they compassionate it by making j.B able to gatling into j.D. I hope j.B CH untech time is about the same tho

Edited February 13, 2014 by StarGazer

[Yazumatto]

We'll have to see how these things actually affect gameplay but it honestly feels like more of the struggle again. The CT thing seems to be an issue if you use it in a combo it seems since they said "hit". I'm pretty sure they didn't change the stun from a successful guard crush.

I want to see what j.B > j.D entitles. This has to be something if they felt the need to decrease hitstun for the gatling inclusion.

And lol at her getting the least amount of changes as if this character is already competitive or something. Glad I had no expectations. Welcome to nobody playing this character in BBCP1.5

Looks like I have to kill Pachi to get any change around here. #whensbbcp2

Edited February 13, 2014 by Yazumatto

[StarGazer]

The thing is, CT in combos is always an air hit. So its hard to notice such a nerf. The only time I hit CT on a standing opponent is when they miss up there block or after 46D RC.

j.B change is a straight nerf to our abare. 6B change means its comboable now when you catch someone rolling/jumping/backdashing with it. At the same time it could be a nerf to remove Orb oki or a buff to introduce more combo options.

[Yazumatto]

I think they would mention ch j.B being nerfed as well alongside the j.B change. Since it gatlings now, maybe you just have to stay on top of your game and connect j.D after non-counterhit starters.

I don't see how 6B ground bounce on air hit is a nerf at all since everyone stopped doing 6B > orb oki a while ago. I'm anticipating extra freedom in OD combos since everything she does makes you stick to a surface in OD.

...I mean it ain't "remove SS wallstick and pat themselves on the back for a job well done" as the only balance change like I pessimistically suggested but it's pretty damn close.

[Random Naoto]

Just out of curiosity from a non BB player, why does team Blue hate Makoto?

[Kcin]

my biggest worry is the j.B untech time. If it's bad enough that we can no longer jc j.D, we could potentially be losing rejump combos and jc OD entirely, or making them even tighter to execute altogether.

I think the note on CT hit might be on raw hit. The current stun is so long you can taunt > OD > 2D/3C etc..., run them from midscreen to a corner/jump over them and run them back, pick them up and still red beat a solid 4k combo and can end with a 5D for oki still. (orb oki wouldn't be safe if you push the damage though).

As for 6B, I pretty much share Gazer's thoughts. I hope it's not being changed for the reason he stated, and I hope that this change can benefit us somehow.

Personally, I'd wish they buff the parry to be full invul once it's activated until you return to neutral, and make space counter safe on block.

I think it's stupid that when it's activated by, let's say a projectile, or anything detached, I can still be hit low and will be CH'ed while I'm stuck in the parry animation, getting no payoff or safety for my risk.

Then from the moment we start the counter we've lost the little upper and mid invul we had. If the smack doesn't connect, I'm now open to being mashed, or punished for successfully anticipating my opponents' attack.

Maybe I'm asking too much with that, but I'd feel more inclined to utilize it if I'm risking giving my opponent a free CH if I mis-time to move.

Edited February 13, 2014 by Kcin

[StarGazer]

The fact they made j.B being able to gatling to j.D already says how bad j.B is gonna be

Just out of curiosity from a non BB player, why does team Blue hate Makoto?

You can't have a character that looks good and plays good at the same time.

[Errol]

i'm guessing they probably reduced untech time by 4, and made it cancelable. which would mean the comboability is exactly the same from j.B to j.D, but everywhere else (JB> jc> OD, JB> JB, JB> jc > try to confirm) is nerfed.

Well. Other characters are nerfed too. Chars with great backdashes likely had their backdashes nerfed, and makoto wasn't one of those. and the best chars were nerfed more significantly.

relative to characters like Valk, she is probably better. But chars like izayoi, amane, kagura, terumi, arakune, platinum are buffed. so maybe she will be hands down the worst this time.

tsubaki got a bunch of nerfs. Same single buff as Makoto - overhead will be reasonable to followup on air hit or roll etc.

This is why I'm playing Rachel, who doesn't appear to be nerfed, probably overall stronger. Even I thought they wouldn't screw up a minor revision like this. But I was wrong.

[Yazumatto]

inb4 they kill makoto in bbcp2 and cite lack of character use in arcades as an excuse to martyr her off for noel's character development

[Myoro]

inb4 they kill makoto in bbcp2 and cite lack of character use in arcades as an excuse to martyr her off for noel's character development

The plot thickens.

[StarGazer]

Should we expect more changes or will this be the sum of it?

[Yazumatto]

I wanna say no.

The answer is probably yes.

We'll get to see the changes in action on the date they listed for an event provided someone knowledgeable tries her out... which they won't cause she's so blegh.

Goddamn, it's like a vortex of depression.

[Myoro]

Who knows? maybe 6B ground bounce was all she ever needed all along? Whatever the case, she's in my prayers.

[Dark Ranger88]

Well the j.B > j.D gatling could let us do B Asteroid Vision > j.B > j.D, since you don't have to jump cancel the j.B anymore. I don't know if we can do anything with that though lol.

[Ragnarok_F4]

C'mon guys, Makoto is ok in this iteration. I think she is mid or mid-low at much. She has great corner carry, decent damage, decent normals, have a DP, great OD, good pressure, lacking mixup, awful range. This is her most balanced iteration so far. And I think she is one of the most balanced chars in this game. Probably Bullet, Tsubaki and Amane will still be down there, even with the buffs, maybe even Izayoi. And so far it seems that her bad matchups will be a bit better. So I think in the end, even with almost no change at all, Makoto will have better chances to win than before. This a ok/good patch for her.

[MoneyD90]

I want to say she will be fine but atm it looks like she might have actually moved closer to the bottom tier wise. Makoto's problem is she is just solid but has nothing that sets her apart or that you really have to respect. Idk... Maybe we are missing something and these small changes will really charge some matchups.