[CP] µ12: Gameplay Discussion

[toanenadiz]

Bang's 5A is a level 1 move with 11 frames of blockstun. Bang's 5B has 10 frames of start-up. So there is a 2 frame gap in 5A > 5B on IB. It doesn't matter when he cancels it since blockstun starts from when you block it and the fastest 5B can come out after you block 5A is 10 frames.

Both hits of Mu's 6B are level 4 (18 frames of blockstun) and with a 9 frame gap between them, you can't doing anything.

[C0R]

Interesting, Rampage_chuck claims that IB'in Mu's 6b would make it possible for him to 720 me out of the 2nd part of 6b. Which i don't think i have ever seen it happen.

edit: i don't think it's even possible to do that, because 6b is a level 4 attack and the gap between 2 kicks is just 8 frames. But he claims he could have 720'd me out of it if there wasn't any lag >_>

He is WRONG.

Bang's 5A is a level 1 move with 11 frames of blockstun. Bang's 5B has 10 frames of start-up. So there is a 2 frame gap in 5A > 5B on IB. It doesn't matter when he cancels it since blockstun starts from when you block it and the fastest 5B can come out after you block 5A is 10 frames.

Both hits of Mu's 6B are level 4 (18 frames of blockstun) and with a 9 frame gap between them, you can't doing anything.

You are RIGHT.

[GreekAngel]

Sorry for my misinformedness guys. T.T At least I know now...

[TD]

rampage being salty again, nothing new

anyway, still on a mission to find a 3k combo from midscreen 6b...

[C0R]

rampage being salty again, nothing new

anyway, still on a mission to find a 3k combo from midscreen 6b...

You can do it on CH, but that's all really.

[bakahyl]

A rather inconvenient method is with a timed charged stein laser, but that only netted me 2992 damage meterless

[TD]

That or immediate 5d into 6b which will never happen in a real match...

yeah ways to combo from 6b are really specific, kinda stupid. I remember in cs1 that setup where we could do 6b into charged laser into combo

[bakahyl]

That or immediate 5d into 6b which will never happen in a real match...

With 2 charged stein lasers it's very possible to reach over 3k damage (in my test 3458 ) with a 6b starter, but that is impossibile in a real match. Eventhough the version with 1 charged stein is unlikely but possible.

edit: 3544 damage :o

Edited February 28, 2013 by bakahyl

[TD]

Is 6b still safe on block in cp?

[Kiba]

Habaya doesn't always work, because it leaves me open to wolf cancelled j.c. And setting steins for totsuka is incredible risky because of ValkenHayn's mobility.

C0r said that this matchup isn't that bad, but i find this matchup a huge pain because i probably haven't fought against enough good valkenhayn for more matchup experience

Valkenhayn's j.C is not wolf cancellable, and I can assist you with the matchup if you'd like. Totsuka may be risky but having a lot of steins out definitely hinders my movement and my pressure capabilities, especially since the lasers still fire when you hit Mu.

Interesting, Rampage_chuck claims that IB'in Mu's 6b would make it possible for him to 720 me out of the 2nd part of 6b. Which i don't think i have ever seen it happen.

Next he's gonna say he can IB 720 Jin out of the 2nd hit of 5B.

Edited February 28, 2013 by Kiba

[bakahyl]

Is 6b still safe on block in cp?

No, it seems more minus in CP. Add the extra problem that it is no longer special cancellable, it will make 6b less safe.

You can cancel it to 6c or a stein, to make it safer.

Valkenhayn's j.C is not wolf cancellable, and I can assist you with the matchup if you'd like. Totsuka may be risky but having a lot of steins out definitely hinders my movement and my pressure capabilities, especially since the lasers still fire when you hit Mu.

I have seen a few times that totsuka didn't hit valkenhayn out of his combo when he he was flying around too much. Some valkenhayn players that i have played don't seem to care too much about totsuka and more or less disrespect it :p

Edited February 28, 2013 by bakahyl

[EXonestar]

Hi there , sorry for this but my friend would like to be critiqued (His Mu) and i was going to post it on a CSE thread but there isn't a critique thread that is open. So I Messaged Pochp and C0R to ask where to post it and Pochp said

"anyways... but yeah just post it in the general thread. It might go unnoticed in the strategy thread. " (http://www.dustloop.com/forums/converse.php?u=14988&u2=23319)

So I apologize for interrupting this [CP] general thread but It would be much appreciated if someone(s) can critique this video.

NOTE: Please critique the [Light Blue Mu] not the green one. Please and thank you

4:00 - 21:22

I don't know a great deal about Mu so yeah......critique away.....something like

[ "start time" - "Critique for that time stamp" ]

Edited March 1, 2013 by EXonestar

[bakahyl]

Hi there , sorry for this but my friend would like to be critiqued (His Mu) and i was going to post it on a CSE thread but there isn't a critique thread that is open. So I Messaged Pochp and C0R to ask where to post it and Pochp said

"anyways... but yeah just post it in the general thread. It might go unnoticed in the strategy thread. " (http://www.dustloop.com/forums/converse.php?u=14988&u2=23319)

So I apologize for interrupting this [CP] general thread but It would be much appreciated if someone(s) can critique this video.

NOTE: Please critique the [Light Blue Mu] not the green one. Please and thank you

4:00 - 21:22

I don't know a great deal about Mu so yeah......critique away.....something like

[ "start time" - "Critique for that time stamp" ]

First problem that i noticed is that he doesn't know what moves Mu can gattle into. He keeps getting hit by 3c in something with 2c > 3c.

Overall i see the light blue placing steins badly, like

5:00 and 5:50 usng a 6d 5d steins for totsuka is pretty inefficient because it travels less distance. An example of 5d and 6d steins and a totsuka would make a better for trapping if the opponent is not outside of 6d's reach.

One other thing that i keep noticing is that he stays still too much or doesn't do anything while jumping around.

Also there were times that using a dp would have kept that other Mu from getting in, but i haven't seen him trying to use her dp at all.

4:36 and 5:58 Using a combo that won't work. He probably should work on his combo's

4:40 and 6:27 2b>5c is rather a weak pressure string. If you are starting with 2b it's better to use 6a(or 5b and they even gattle in eachother) and then you have the option of doing either 6b (overhead) or 3c (low) or use the jump cancel from either of 5b, 6a or 3c to continue your pressure

5:24 Trying to rush down while the opponent has a totsuka out. If i have to rush down the opponent when they have a totsuka out, i will try to throw them. Either you get the get throw and remain invincible during the animation or the opponent techs it and you will also be invicible during that.

5:33 Missing out a corner combo because he went for 5c 6c in a combo against a standing opponent (would have worked if the opponent was crouching or in the air)

More on this later, only made minor comments on the first match

edit: he could have used a habaya as a minor shield against some stein lasers of the opponent

edit: Try to disrupt your opponent setting steins. Like a habaya will keep you safe frontal while you can keep setting them, using a 6d and immediate totsuka blade will make your opponent hesistate setting more. One thing that i also do is to anticipate where the opponent is setting his steins and use the corresponding stein and a habakiri, so that the opponent will fall into it if he used up his double jump.

Or the more obvious way is to rush down the opponent when they don't have many steins out. The steins themselves take quite some time before they fire.

later edit:

after browsing through the entire Mu mirror match i am sad to see the lack of many oki and trap setups of both Mu players :/

I was hoping to see something that i could use.

Even later edit: i am not sure if this thing that i use is that reliable but i use this against opponents that i want to keep close like Hazama, ValkenHayn, Taokaka, Mu, lambda etc.

After a combo that ends with 6c, instead going for Furu no tsurugi I tend to use 5d, 6d.

Either i will use an immediate Totsuka or habaya first and then a totsuka. While they are stuck in the totsuka you can then do all sort of things like setting 6d and 5d while the totsuka is active so that the laser will travel back and forth to keep them longer stuck, give them a guesing game of high or low while they are stuck between the lasers, try to break their primers by charging a Furu no Tsurugi while they are stuck blocking or you can mess up their blocking by jumping over them (and you can also backdash back to confuse them more) and then do something while the lasers are still active etc.

last edit: IMO i think am not that good as a Mu player, so don't take my advice too seriously :p

Edited March 2, 2013 by bakahyl

[Tecta1Eastside]

Hi there , sorry for this but my friend would like to be critiqued (His Mu) and i was going to post it on a CSE thread but there isn't a critique thread that is open. So I Messaged Pochp and C0R to ask where to post it and Pochp said

4:00 - 21:22

I don't know a great deal about Mu so yeah......critique away.....something like

[ "start time" - "Critique for that time stamp" ]

@4:33

http://youtu.be/DHeU6Hv5D4E?t=4m33s

You when for the grab combo and dropped it.

I no longer remember the optimal grab combo but check the u-12 wiki.

@4:46

http://youtu.be/DHeU6Hv5D4E?t=4m46s

You could have went for a RC off the 3c and dragged the opponent into the corner for more dmg instead of using the distortion.

@5:16

http://youtu.be/DHeU6Hv5D4E?t=5m16s

You could have used 2c and hit the green u-12

@5:30

http://youtu.be/DHeU6Hv5D4E?t=5m30s

You dropped two combos but the one closer to the combo was more important cuz thats at least 3k dmg from the 2b starter and oki

@5:52

http://youtu.be/DHeU6Hv5D4E?t=5m52s

The combo you did turned blue but I cant named what you did wrong. Im sorry

@6:06

http://youtu.be/DHeU6Hv5D4E?t=6m6s

You forgot the distortion at the end which could of ended the match.

@6:37

http://youtu.be/DHeU6Hv5D4E?t=6m37s

You could of done 3c SOD for a 4k corner combo.

@8:53

http://youtu.be/DHeU6Hv5D4E?t=8m53s

You could of AA the green mu-12 jc

@14:26

http://youtu.be/DHeU6Hv5D4E?t=14m26s

You can use a charged SOD to change your hitbox and bait your opponents burst and punish them.

@17:16

http://youtu.be/DHeU6Hv5D4E?t=17m16s

You could have 5c the green mu instead of letting run at you from fullscreen

@18:16

http://youtu.be/DHeU6Hv5D4E?t=18m16s

You could of done j2c<2b<5C<6c<214a whiff<6a<6b<etc for more dmg

@18:24

http://youtu.be/DHeU6Hv5D4E?t=18m24s

You could have done a 6b<rc<2b for a mix-up

@21:20

http://youtu.be/DHeU6Hv5D4E?t=21m20s

you could of tried dping or using a counter assault as your last defense option

I'd say overall work on hitconfirms,blocking,better offense,instant blocking

I dont really know how mu-12 mirrors truly work since I dont play them often.

You could try using your dp and counter assualt more too.

I'm not bashing you or anything

If you need help with oki more or mu-12 mirrors ask some of the other mu-12 players for advice too since they are better in that area than I am.

Hope this helped you.

[EXonestar]

Thanks for this , my friend is currently reading - looking over it

Thanks for taking the time to help me- help my friend Tecta1Eastside and bakahyl

[bakahyl]

@4:46

http://youtu.be/DHeU6Hv5D4E?t=4m46s

You could have went for a RC off the 3c and dragged the opponent into the corner for more dmg instead of using the distortion.

Actually no rapid was needed at all, because he was already almost in the corner. He just needed a Tsurugi

@5:52

http://youtu.be/DHeU6Hv5D4E?t=5m52s

The combo you did turned blue but I cant named what you did wrong. Im sorry

Because you need to use a stein after the first j.2c (either a delayed j.d when almost on the ground or an immediate j.6d) to make that combo work.

@6:37

http://youtu.be/DHeU6Hv5D4E?t=6m37s

You could of done 3c SOD for a 4k corner combo.

Kind of debatable, because he had no hitconfirm prior to 3c. IxisNaugus just blocked badly, because Mu can't use any high moves after 2c.

@14:26

http://youtu.be/DHeU6Hv5D4E?t=14m26s

You can use a charged SOD to change your hitbox and bait your opponents burst and punish them.

I still think it was too close , so you will still get hit by a burst . But despite that, he should have used Tsurugi anyway because 5c>6c doesn't work

@18:16

http://youtu.be/DHeU6Hv5D4E?t=18m16s

You could of done j2c<2b<5C<6c<214a whiff<6a<6b<etc for more dmg

you mean a 214d whiff, aka Habakiri cancel? Well that is just a matter of optimizing combo's and i don't think he knows all of Mu's combo's yet

Edited March 2, 2013 by bakahyl
sorry for typing your name wrong, IxisNaugus :/

[Tecta1Eastside]

There's some A-cho and Kouhatsu vids with mu-12 players in them.

I'll go through and post them in the video thread later on tonight or 2morrow.

Edit:

I deleted my post about the critique comments I made so I avoid the double post issue.

[C0R]

Stream sunday, 1700pst

[00Bubbles00]

Mu figure is up for preorder now. Feel free to splurge on a healthy obsession.

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10219731

[bakahyl]

In cp, would a CH 5b > 6b > 6c > ikutachi combo work as a decent fast punish against moves that leave the opponent open for less than 11 or so frames?

[C0R]

In cp, would a CH 5b > 6b > 6c > ikutachi combo work as a decent fast punish against moves that leave the opponent open for less than 11 or so frames?

Currently it isn't known if 6a nets you more damage. As far as I can tell 5b seems to be a reasonable punish, but the combo off it has yet to be tuned.

[Lord Pwnge18]

Goddammit, every time I see someone survive Omohi my heart breaks a little more

[Tecta1Eastside]

Goddammit, every time I see someone survive Omohi my heart breaks a little more

The person had 100 meter and some OD meter he could used also.

I've seen her do almost the same amount of dmg from the 6b starter with no meter from the combo video.

The dmg wasnt optimized.

Edited March 14, 2013 by Tecta1Eastside

[Lord Pwnge18]

That changes absolutely nothing about my statement

[Tecta1Eastside]

This probably will not change your statement. Look at it like this.

Her Midscreen dmg overall is better cuz:

Ground to Ground dmg is higher/her grab dmg is higher/her overhead dmg without meter is higher.

She may have lost some Anti-anti dmg like a few hundred points and corner dmg but she still hits hard like she suppose to.

If the was extend you probably would have not gotten that 3.7k with 100 meter anyway from 6b in that situation.

Everyone's distortions for the most part do less dmg on CP anyway so its fair.