[CP] Izayoi Gameplay Discussion - Tobe! Gandamu!

[Sakaku]

Playing her is fun. What I'm struggling with is opponents being in the air all the time, she doesn't seem to have a great air to air, as I'm getting beaten clean by most of the cast's air normals. Her 623B/623C AA game is very strong, but it's very risky to whiff these. There were several times when I thought I'd definitely hit them with 623B, but they just dashed right over it and whiff punished me hard. Seems like her 623C is much much stronger against characters approaching you at midrange, still needs testing though.

Other than that, I really like her 5B, the range is gdlk, though whiffing it can also hurt.

As for pressure in normal mode, I've been ending most of my strings either into 236A or into 236B stance cancel into IA backdash or 5B 236C~214C shenanigans. She doesn't really have reliable ways to open someone up, so might as well take one star before going back into the neutral game. The stance cancel is especially great once you conditioned them into expecting a 236A at the end of your blockstrings, but don't really expect to open them up with a nice 6 star combo with it. I haven't played too much with 6B/6, but it can work as a gimmick once in a while I guess. Her 2A might be +1 on block, but it's 8 frames slow, so there isn't really an advantage when you compare that to others 2As. Maybe you could use TK j.236C for an instant overhead lol, but I dunno if that's really worth it/safe.

What I really don't like is her C range though. I keep whiffing it way too often, but that's just gonna take a while to adapt to.

As for GA, I'm absolutely in love with it! Getting in isn't really the easiest if you don't want to spend stars, but she has a very strong AA bait potential due to her ability to cancel the hover into air dashes. Damage in GA seems fine, guess what keeps her "low tier" is the lack of reliable and safe AAs/air to air and a very inconsistent way of getting enough stars.

And yeah toan, I also like escaping with her GA backdash, it works extremely well so far.

I've been using OD at the start of a round quite often now, don't see why this wouldn't be good unless you like to burst after the first hit. Any thoughts on that?

[kazukifafner]

Love Izayoi. Her gameplay is crazy fun. GA seems to have some good trapping/meaty applications as well.

[Justice7541]

Izayoi's backdash in gain arts still has invincibility right? Or have I just gotten incredibly lucky when I used it to escape?

Izayoi's backdash becomes godly in Gain Art. It makes it a bit harder to punish jab meaties and the like but it gets you out of pressure really easily.

[lxMetalSonicxl]

Izayoi needs a good air-to-air and a legitimate anti-air. Those DPs don't work when they are too close/ press buttons too fast.

Also her C normals are awful range. She doesn't have a lot of buttons to press while being pressured either.

But she's fun.

Edited October 27, 2013 by lxMetalSonicxl

[Velvien]

Anyone mind if I go and create the matchup discussion threads?

[Dark Ranger88]

Hmm I'll try using the GA backdash more. It might have just been that my opponents were getting lucky and catching me with long reach moves.

[kazukifafner]

Discovered that I really need to get more matches in to get comfortable enough to pull off combos/strings properly. Forgot how awkward it is using a new character for the first time in an actual match, lol

[Dark Ranger88]

Yo I NEVER land 2B after 236B > 214A in real matches. I've started to just do 236B teleport into oki. I'll worry about getting those two extra stocks when I'm more comfortable with her.

The main thing I'm trying to get used to is her movement and using 5B + sonic sabre to control space/zone. These are things that I'm not used to with Makoto.

What do you guys think about Izaoyi's neutral game? 5B and projectile pretty much dominate the ground, so people are jumping and air dashing like crazy. I've just been meeting them in the air with j.A whenever I feel that they are going to jump.

Not having an anti-air sucks, especially for jump cancel pressure. There was this one Hakumen that kept doing his new aerial move into j.B to reset pressure and I had no idea how to get out of that crap.

[Nefarious]

623B is a sick anti-air, my problem with Izayoi is that this game has no hard knockdowns. She would be on some I-No level mix-ups if people couldn't just roll out of her set-ups.

I'l run her as a sub with my main Rachel she it too fun to not use.

[skd]

holla. sorry haha, i was away for the weekend, during the release information rush! gomen.

ive got a lot of stuff i want to throw together, i guess the random bits i can drop is like, double phorizer combos exist midscreen for corner push and damage (you get like 5k off jB/jC/2b with 100 meter from around 60% of the screen away from the corner) with something like (jB/C) 2B 5B 236236C~214D 236236C~214D 5C 2C(1) 236B~214A 2C 5C jBCdjBC j236C~D, 5 stocks though :v

in related news, you can combo off anti air 6A in the corner (phorizer or 5B)

[C0R]

I don't think it's got a cooldown such much as it's just finicky about linking the super.

Sorry for the late reply.

The game engine had a core change that shortened the advanced input window, so if anything seems tighter, it's because everything uses backdash timing now. (3f buffer < 5f Buffer)

[kazukifafner]

Ah, I see. Good to know.

Also, I'm slowly getting more and more used to the character. I even pulled off a hjBAAC loop once. I'm able to put a bit more pressure on now too, though I still need to get used to general move properties. And now that I've played more, I totally get that air-to-air struggle. Honestly, even in general, characters with solid normals were giving me more of a run for my money.

[Celerity]

Sorry for the late reply.

The game engine had a core change that shortened the advanced input window, so if anything seems tighter, it's because everything uses backdash timing now. (3f buffer < 5f Buffer)

This is with Izayoi's teleports specifically, though. After messing with it more, it seems to be because there's a short period of time during the teleport's recovery where you are allowed to cancel into a normal or special move, but not a jump or super move. Like a "half recovery" phase. 214D skips this phase and recovers fully so it doesn't have the same issue.

Good info, though, I didn't know that.

[Justice7541]

holla. sorry haha, i was away for the weekend, during the release information rush! gomen.

ive got a lot of stuff i want to throw together, i guess the random bits i can drop is like, double phorizer combos exist midscreen for corner push and damage (you get like 5k off jB/jC/2b with 100 meter from around 60% of the screen away from the corner) with something like (jB/C) 2B 5B 236236C~214D 236236C~214D 5C 2C(1) 236B~214A 2C 5C jBCdjBC j236C~D, 5 stocks though :v

in related news, you can combo off anti air 6A in the corner (phorizer or 5B)

How are you getting double Phorizer into 5C midscreen? I can barely get 5C to link off non-CH Phorizer in corner and that's off an immediate cancel. If you cancel immediately midscreen you end up on the wrong side and if you delay it it won't link.

[Celerity]

How are you getting double Phorizer into 5C midscreen? I can barely get 5C to link off non-CH Phorizer in corner and that's off an immediate cancel. If you cancel immediately midscreen you end up on the wrong side and if you delay it it won't link.

If you're far enough away, you can 214D immediately and end up on the other side of them to catch them for the link.

The first Phorizer from that combo should either give you enough distance to make an immediate 214D go behind them, or push them into the corner where it's linkable no matter what. It's practically full stage corner carry anyway lol.

[lxMetalSonicxl]

Not having an anti-air sucks, especially for jump cancel pressure. There was this one Hakumen that kept doing his new aerial move into j.B to reset pressure and I had no idea how to get out of that crap.

Your 623C is there for a reason. Dealing with jump cancels is possible with this. They can barrier block you and try to punish a teleport, but if they respect your anti-air you might be able to run under them depending on their height. Ghetto anti-air 5A works in the minimal of situations too and I think 6A can work out if you know they are gonna press a button for sure.

The real problem is dealing with characters that can pseudo-zone with projectiles or avoid your projectile altogether because they are fast. And that's a lot of the cast :/

[Justice7541]

So far I've found that the Izayoi mirror is the most annoying matchup. Whoever gets the stocks first ends up totally shutting down the other guy's ability to get stocks. Then it's just a matter of trying to wait it out till they burn their stocks so you can get yours, or just YOLOing it and using OD.

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[lxMetalSonicxl]

So far I've found that the Izayoi mirror is the most annoying matchup. Whoever gets the stocks first ends up totally shutting down the other guy's ability to get stocks. Then it's just a matter of trying to wait it out till they burn their stocks so you can get yours, or just YOLOing it and using OD.

Actually I found the Izayoi matchup to be the most fun matchup. Izayoi is so easy to fight that it feels like a positive matchup.

Anyways what kind of suggestions/wishlist do you guys have? My suggestions are as followed:

Change 236B and 236C to 22B and 22C. Give new projectile variants with those old inputs and have an aerial version. Give Jin-like air options after the projectiles. Give a Gain Art DP that costs 1 or two stocks. Give an actual air-to-air. Buff C normal range, no reason why sword normals have less range than some people with their fists and kicks. Make D projectile go off in place if it hits another projectile. Improve her anti-airs.

Maybe not all of these but thats the direction I would like to see her going.

Edited October 28, 2013 by lxMetalSonicxl

[crimsonstardust]

Is anyone else whiffing GA 5C every so often during a combo? I seem to have this happen a lot when I try to confirm off GA jC (during the dash) or when I start my combos with 2A. Any suggestions? Cause the only thing I can think of is not to use 5C in the combo and just do 236C off of 5B cause it has decent range.

[Celerity]

Is anyone else whiffing GA 5C every so often during a combo? I seem to have this happen a lot when I try to confirm off GA jC (during the dash) or when I start my combos with 2A. Any suggestions? Cause the only thing I can think of is not to use 5C in the combo and just do 236C off of 5B cause it has decent range.

Are you talking about 5B > 5C > 236C~D stuff? If you're too far away for 5C to hit, just omit it.

[crimsonstardust]

Yeah that combo. I guess I'm gonna have to pay attention to my spacing and get used to her normals ranges.

[Justice7541]

Usually doing 2b 5b works in lieu of 5b 5c if you want the extra normal to confirm after the overhead. Trying to do something like j.C 5b 5c almost never works so I wouldn't bother with it.

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[onemic]

Is 236B~214A safe, negative, or plus on block?

[Celerity]

Is 236B~214A safe, negative, or plus on block?

Massively unsafe, around -20. You could use 214C instead, though, the extra distance might make it hard to punish.

[Sakaku]

It's heavily punishable. Even 236B~214C can be risky vs most of the cast if you autopilot it when you see them blocking. Either end in 236A or do 236B stance cancel into whatever.

Also, I don't see why we'd want to do combos with 5B 5C. The moment I see an Izayoi player doing j.C 5B 5C blockstrings I'm simply going to stop blocking low. It's a different thing if you can hitconfirm your j.C, so don't mind me if you all mean that.