[CP] Izayoi Gameplay Discussion - Tobe! Gandamu!

[NemesisZeru]

Either time it or mash it really fast. It also has to be high enough, if it doesn't combo into 5A you won't be able to make it go into Phorizer.

 

Alrighty. I probably wasn't going high enough, since I was doing stuff like

 

5B>5C>236C~6D>jc jB jC into Strike Fall stuff. x3

 

Starting to really dislike the ps3 controller, though. Can't do super motions for crap on this thing. :/

[Justice7541]

Alrighty. I probably wasn't going high enough, since I was doing stuff like

5B>5C>236C~6D>jc jB jC into Strike Fall stuff. x3

Starting to really dislike the ps3 controller, though. Can't do super motions for crap on this thing. :/

Yeah that won't work. Do 5C sj.BC dj.BC, that works.

[NemesisZeru]

Yeah that won't work. Do 5C sj.BC dj.BC, that works.

 

Alrighty, I'll give it a shot. c:

[NemesisZeru]

Still trying to learn Izayoi, now with online play! I'm having a pretty big problem, though...

 

I basically lose if I get put on defense. Partly it's my own problem, partly I'm not sure how to deal with pressure as Izayoi, since my research has told me that's one of her problems. @_@

 

So, any tips? I don't want to drop Izayoi, but getting massacred because I get forced on the defensive and can't recover is discouraging. 

[Celerity]

Izayoi really forces you to be on point. There's nothing obvious that you're missing; she has a slow ass 2A, and her only real reversal costs meter. You'll need to be patient and learn proper use of barrier/IB to give yourself an opening to poke or jump out. Use Phorizer as often as you can without being predictable. And finally, don't give up! You're gaining valuable experience which will improve your defense with every character!

BTW, your avatar is amazing.

[NemesisZeru]

Izayoi really forces you to be on point. There's nothing obvious that you're missing; she has a slow ass 2A, and her only real reversal costs meter. You'll need to be patient and learn proper use of barrier/IB to give yourself an opening to poke or jump out. Use Phorizer as often as you can without being predictable. And finally, don't give up! You're gaining valuable experience which will improve your defense with every character!

BTW, your avatar is amazing.

 

Thanks, made it myself. c:

 

And while sucks to hear that, I don't wanna give up. I won 2 matches out of like 30 with day 1(2 technically, but I was barely awake) Izayoi, so I'm gonna consider that a win. Half the battle is learning how to use a PS3 controller, practically. x3

[MotokoChill]

I like how ground sonic saber will be cancelable into D mirage thruster. Might open up a few more options !

[Rhannmah]

Normal ground sonic saber is already cancellable into D mirage thruster. But now it'll only cost 1 stock instead of 2. What's new is that ground D sonic saber will be cancellable into D mirage thruster. But I don't think it's worth it to spend 3 stocks just for that.

[Justice7541]

Might be a good crossup if spaced properly since D saber starts up slightly slower than A saber I think.

[Angel-tastic]

They reduced the start-up by 6 right? That means that D Sonic Saber would be as fast as A Sonic Saber now, so probably would make a pretty good cross-up. Expensive though, but I'm sure it will come in handy if you have extra stocks, especially since D Sonic Saber should be better for pressure resets now anyway.

[Justice7541]

They reduced the start-up by 6 right? That means that D Sonic Saber would be as fast as A Sonic Saber now, so probably would make a pretty good cross-up. Expensive though, but I'm sure it will come in handy if you have extra stocks, especially since D Sonic Saber should be better for pressure resets now anyway.

I was referring to how the projectile itself takes a bit longer before it starts moving (at least IIRC) meaning it might be possible to do something like 5B 236D~214D and get behind the opponent before it hits.

[ReallyTense]

I'm excited about gain arte 3C being special cancel in 1.1!

[Angel-tastic]

I was referring to how the projectile itself takes a bit longer before it starts moving (at least IIRC) meaning it might be possible to do something like 5B 236D~214D and get behind the opponent before it hits.

 

Oh, I see what you mean. Air D Sonic Saber does that, but Ground D Sonic Saber starts moving immediately.

I feel like you could probably still space the D Saber so that the cross-up works though, especially considering the push-back it has on Izayoi, but I guess that depends on how early it's cancelable.

I don't think I've seen any Izayoi players use it yet from the 1.1 streams, so it's hard to say.

[crimsonstardust]

There's something I'm confused about with her new air dash change. So she can air dash twice in GA mode right? So would that mean after a second jump she can still air dash once or is it more of the lines of the first jump has access to two air dashes and the second jump doesn't? 

Did they change her air dash speed? Cause the footages I've seen with the new air dash being used looks slower then the original one, either that or it looks slow to me cause I'm to used to seeing UMvC3 tri jumps and such being much faster in comparison. 

[Celerity]

There's something I'm confused about with her new air dash change. So she can air dash twice in GA mode right? So would that mean after a second jump she can still air dash once or is it more of the lines of the first jump has access to two air dashes and the second jump doesn't? 

Did they change her air dash speed? Cause the footages I've seen with the new air dash being used looks slower then the original one, either that or it looks slow to me cause I'm to used to seeing UMvC3 tri jumps and such being much faster in comparison. 

 

She can airdash after a double jump, but I'm fairly sure she can't double jump and double airdash. It's possible now to IAD with down trajectory after a blocked hoverdash jump attack and do another one, although I don't know how much you can convert after that.

[GrandAquila]

Hey just got CP stateside and I decided on making Izayoi my main her combos will take getting used to but seem simple enough and gaining stocks is easy as it is. My question is how should I approach with her her teleports seem unsafe and her offense seems straightforward.

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[crimsonstardust]

Generally you don't want to use the teleports that often, the D one is ok to use cause you can use a sonic saber to cover the approach. There are times you can use it offensively like your opponent is respecting you to much but generally you used them mostly for combos, you can use the C version to keep some moves safe but it can be punished so I don't suggest it. There are some match ups that might call for using them to avoid attacks or position yourself in a certain spot but not many matches needed it nor is is needed to do, like an example might be you use it preemptively to avoid C normals from Amane to get closer or something like that. Teleports are really not safe as a whole don't get in the habit of using it. 

 

D teleports can open up all sorts of interesting ways to get in but again this also depends on you and your opponent, you can do stuff like GA hover dash into teleport D, or use it against someone that's getting zoning happy. The upcoming patch the cost of it will be cheaper and you'll have access to doing it off of ground D sonic saber also so you can force a mix up or two. There are some cases where you can use D teleport to throw people but you have to look where they are on the screen too, if your opponent is at jump height or higher she will track them to the air so be wary of that when you use it.   

[GrandAquila]

So I just got bodied by a pretty solid Tager for doing what you said not to. So as for her neutral game what can I use to force them to respect me.?

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[crimsonstardust]

Thats a very tough question to answer, one I'm still struggling with myself. Full screen Sonic Sabers are ok to toss, I say ok cause this still requires you to make your opponents get antsy and try to air dash at you or jump at you and play a fireball anti air game, I mostly do this in normal mode and if the situation calls, GA mode also. 5B is her main poking tool but some characters can low profile it (characters that come to mind are Hakumen and Makoto), your gonna have to get used to stance canceling a lot with 236C cause that's the best one to do it with. Its hard to keep people to respect her hover dash pressures cause literally any button can swat her out of it, like I am not kidding how bad a naked hover dash is. 

 

There are ways to make it work a little better, you can whiff jb. jc or air throw to make her land a little faster and using air throw will catch people trying to chicken block. I've also learned to try and not hover dash a whole lot as well, walking is actually under used with her and this will be a better alternative at times to move around, a little risky to use but I've had success slipping in 3C to try and get away from some situations, use this sparingly as it is not safe, try to punish with it if you can cause it'll net you a fatal counter. Stance cancel has its uses too, you can use it to attempt hover dash mix ups again but you will get caught by mashing so helps to mix in things like 6C or if you feel ballsy 3C for frame trapping, 6C is pretty safe on block but I'm not sure how it fairs against someone instant blocking it. I don't know the exact numbers, but someone will be able to tell you, basically 66 jC (GA mode) is as fast as most average overheads in this game (I think its somewhere between 21-23 frames) and jB is about 18 or so. 

 

If your setting pressure in normal mode, be used to using 6C a lot for pressure and practice stance canceling so you don't accidentally get 623C cause that is pretty slow stance cancel wise, 6C is pretty good to frame trap with also cause that's a fatal counter also and with the right combo you can net a full stock.

 

Hopefully the struggles as we Izayoi players have will be worth it when the patch drops here, its hard for me personally to tell cause there isn't enough footage to go on. /: Don't give up, she really is a hard character to play, I've struggled a lot with her cause its hard to get people to respect her pressure cause I play a number of other characters and its much easier for me to get people to respect them, I still stick with Izayoi in the end cause I just love her design and I'm still hoping to slip in a Gundam joke somewhere. d:

[GrandAquila]

Just saw a match vid where the Izayoi player after j.236c Strike fall, jumps over the other char performs a falling j.c followed by a 66 j.b not sure if it was 1.1 or not but it looked viable as an option for mixup. Thoughts?

http://youtu.be/yuNFzJkOE3k link for reference and it's 47 seconds in.

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[Angel-tastic]

5B is her main poking tool but some characters can low profile it (characters that come to mind are Hakumen and Makoto)

I seem to recall reading that after the patch, in addition to fixing 5B's hurtbox so that you don't get countered anymore when you "clash" with another attack, they were also fixing the "vertical hit-box" somehow. I'm assuming this is so no one can low-profile it anymore, so that would be great if that were the case.

 

 I don't know the exact numbers, but someone will be able to tell you, basically 66 jC (GA mode) is as fast as most average overheads in this game (I think its somewhere between 21-23 frames) and jB is about 18 or so. 

Actually, the Gain Art overheads should be quite a bit faster than average. j.B is 9 frames and j.C is 12 frames ,and the hover-dash start-up is 4 frames IIRC, so 66 j.B is 13 frames and 66 j.C is 16 frames. (EDIT: Hoverdash start-up total is actually 9 frames, so that's 18 and 21 frames respectively, but that's still quite fast for an overhead though.) I think the main reason they're so easy to counter is that you can't easily get close enough for them to actually hit that fast, and your opponent knows you can't dash into a low, so they're just waiting for your hover-dash so they can anti-air you. If you can actually force the opponent to block somehow, a lot people seem like they respect Izayoi's faster than average overheads, and won't attempt to counter them because you have enough other options that it would be too risky.

 

Also, just for some cute things I do, I like to use Gain Art 3C, 6C, and CS Gamma a lot in neutral and block-strings, as well as her teleports. Most are at least somewhat unsafe, but that's so much extra stuff for the opponent to keep track of that a lot of people never see them coming. You just have to use them at appropriate times when you think the opponent is going to do something specific. After the patch, I'll probably use 6B a lot more too with the frame 4 low invulnerability, and 6A with frame 4 guard-point. Heh, I just realized that after the patch, Izayoi will have a move with frame 4 invulnerability against everything; CS Alpha and Aegis Blade have frame 4 invulnerability against aerial attacks, and normal mode 6C has frame 4 body invulnerability. Her defence/counter-attacking could be really interesting if someone learned how to use all of these competently. If you knew what attack the opponent was going to do next, you could instant block +4 moves and counter whatever they did next (besides throws) with the appropriate attack.

 

EDIT: Oops. I forgot the inactive frames for the hover-dash. Thanks Celerity!

[Celerity]

Just saw a match vid where the Izayoi player after j.236c Strike fall, jumps over the other char performs a falling j.c followed by a 66 j.b not sure if it was 1.1 or not but it looked viable as an option for mixup. Thoughts?

http://youtu.be/yuNFzJkOE3k link for reference and it's 47 seconds in.

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That video is olddddd, April 2013. What you're referring to is a safe jump j.C, which is pretty standard after Strike Fall for oki. After that you can do a lot of things, 66 j.B, empty jump 2B, empty jump throw, etc.

 

Actually, the Gain Art overheads should be quite a bit faster than that. j.B is 9 frames and j.C is 12 frames, and the hover-dash start-up is 4 frames IIRC, so 66 j.B is 13 frames and 66 j.C is 16 frames.

Hoverdash has 4 prejump frames, and 5 jump frames where you can't perform any action, so the total on 66 j.C is 21F. 66 j.B is a fairly quick overhead at 17F. The mixup from j.C still works better though because of the threat of an empty jump.

[GrandAquila]

I didn't realize it was old I just wondered it this was a viable tactic to try to bring into my game. I assume the answer is yes? Just had more luck on an ok Jin but had some trouble escaping his pressure, back to the matchups for me.

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[Celerity]

I didn't realize it was old I just wondered it this was a viable tactic to try to bring into my game. I assume the answer is yes? Just had more luck on an ok Jin but had some trouble escaping his pressure, back to the matchups for me.

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Yes, it's totally viable, it's what pretty much every Izayoi does.

[Angel-tastic]

Greetings all.

 

There's one thing I'm wondering about if anyone knows yet. Is it still possible to do a normal air dash in Gain Art mode in BBCP 1.1, or do we have to do the angled dash?, which is quite nice I might add, but the straight one is useful too.