[CP] Izayoi Gameplay Discussion - Tobe! Gandamu!

[Justice7541]

Yeah, Izayoi's new abilities sound really legit, so I'm super excited to see all the new stuff, especially the new Gain Art movement.

 

Also, regarding the Terumi match-up, I got wake-up Ouja Zanrouga'd today and my safe-jump got countered and then I was afraid to do oki for the rest of the match.

What am I even supposed to do about that? It's not really a big deal since most Terumi players don't use that move, but it's kind of unnerving that he can do that.

Of course I could just do 2B, but then he can do the Gouga Soutenjin that I was trying to safe-jump to begin with, but safe-jumping Terumi actually seems like a really bad idea.

Maybe if the opponent likes to do that, you could try to bait it by jumping, don't attack, and just block (which I did the second time and got a Fatal Counter his burst), which seems smart to me, but it still seems kind of tricky.

 

What kind of oki do you all use against Terumi when he has meter?

You can actually bait out Ouga with a j.C, the counter actually has a hitbox and it's a super shit one at that.  It won't hit anything higher than like 2A height so if you JC the j.C when you see it get guardpointed you can actually go above it.  I've done it before although it wasn't off a safejump, I'm not sure if you'd be too low to jump out of it was.

[minlexx]

One of the combos from jp IZ bbs:

(probably, corner?) [GA] jC> 5C> 3C> β> Astrea> 2C> 5C> 2C1> 3C> α> 5C> jB> jC> jcJB> JC> Noir> Strike

dmg 3977, 4637 with Justice added

Looks strange, but if the damage numbers are correct, it seems to be nearly the same as before?

[Justice7541]

That's probably due to the proration nerf on 236C. Sounds mad hype though.

[Celerity]

Our current damage from a j.C in the corner is 4246. Looks like they're giving up about 150 damage by using 3C > 236B > 5C instead of just 236B > 2C, but even so, that's less damage than I would expect.

That's probably due to the proration nerf on 236C. Sounds mad hype though.

I thought it was confirmed to be 236B that got the proration nerf.

[Justice7541]

Our current damage from a j.C in the corner is 4246. Looks like they're giving up about 150 damage by using 3C > 236B > 5C instead of just 236B > 2C, but even so, that's less damage than I would expect.

I thought it was confirmed to be 236B that got the proration nerf.

The translations weren't super clear. I thought the way it went was someone saw Beta and assumed that was 236B, when in fact Beta is 236C. It could have been that the translator saw 236B and translated it as Beta but I think the patchnotes had moves listed by name, not input, so the former would be more likely.

Also Izayoi only gets 4.2k if she gets the full 2C 5C 2C deal going, which is pretty iffy on a lot of characters. I'd say trading 150 damage for more consistency is a pretty good deal. Being able to do 5B 5C 3C 236B~214A etc. midscreen should also be a pretty good option for saving stars. Might even end up doing more than her current 5B 5C 236C~6D route.

[Angel-tastic]

 

The translations weren't super clear. I thought the way it went was someone saw Beta and assumed that was 236B, when in fact Beta is 236C. It could have been that the translator saw 236B and translated it as Beta but I think the patchnotes had moves listed by name, not input, so the former would be more likely.

 

I remember it the other way around the same as Celerity, where someone wrote "Crusade Seraphim B" and thought that was shorthand for CS Beta, whereas it was supposed to be shorthand for 236B, which is CS Gamma. The translation was "low Crusade Seraphim" or something IIRC.

 

Anyhow, that combo doesn't even use CS Gamma at all. I wouldn't think that the CS Gamma proration nerf makes it that bad to not even use it, since it's great for extending combos. Also, is 3C only special cancelable? I haven't seen anyone use anything after it other than Crusade Seraphims, which is still very helpful, but I'm curious though.

 

You can actually bait out Ouga with a j.C, the counter actually has a hitbox and it's a super shit one at that.  It won't hit anything higher than like 2A height so if you JC the j.C when you see it get guardpointed you can actually go above it.  I've done it before although it wasn't off a safejump, I'm not sure if you'd be too low to jump out of it was.

 

Yeah, Ouja Zanrouga will counter you immediately even in midair if you're near the ground, so it doesn't look like that works for safe-jumps.

[Chaoschao222]

The translations weren't super clear.

Translations were very explicit; "low Crusade Seraphim." The confusion came from SKD putting Crusade Seraphim B, as in B the button, but it being seen as B the β.

[Justice7541]

I remember it the other way around the same as Celerity, where someone wrote "Crusade Seraphim B" and thought that was shorthand for CS Beta, whereas it was supposed to be shorthand for 236B, which is CS Gamma. The translation was "low Crusade Seraphim" or something IIRC.

Anyhow, that combo doesn't even use CS Gamma at all. I wouldn't think that the CS Gamma proration nerf makes it that bad to not even use it, since it's great for extending combos. Also, is 3C only special cancelable? I haven't seen anyone use anything after it other than Crusade Seraphims, which is still very helpful, but I'm curious though.

Yeah, Ouja Zanrouga will counter you immediately even in midair if you're near the ground, so it doesn't look like that works for safe-jumps.

There's a Gamma after the second 3C. Albeit it's pretty far along in the combo already so I doubt the extra 10% proration really makes a huge difference, but 150 damage lost seems about right. I doubt you'd actually do that much more by dropping the 3Cs and it definitely looks to be making the combos much easier and consistent.

I guess Gamma taking the nerf makes more sense than Beta though, since GA 3C > Gamma looks like it'd be leading to massive free damage otherwise.

[Celerity]

Come to think of it, it makes sense that they'd go for making Izayoi a little lighter on execution, since she was intended to be "good for beginners". 3C loops cut out a lot of the difficult timing in the corner and the character-specific BS midscreen. I'm kinda sad about it actually.

I'm still waiting to see some Trans-Am combos. I'm predicting they will do a lot more damage now that you can trigger the bit more rapidly and combo with it more reliably from 3C. It wouldn't surprise me if there was now a way to squeeze 6 hits into a corner BnB.

[chzchan]

Izayoi intended to be "good for beginners". 

 

Oh man that's a good one.

[Angel-tastic]

There's a Gamma after the second 3C. Albeit it's pretty far along in the combo already so I doubt the extra 10% proration really makes a huge difference, but 150 damage lost seems about right. I doubt you'd actually do that much more by dropping the 3Cs and it definitely looks to be making the combos much easier and consistent.

Oops, I guess that was just a typo above (the combo was written with alpha after the second 3C, so I got confused). I was thinking that would be a really strange way to avoid CS Gamma, so that makes sense.

 

I guess Gamma taking the nerf makes more sense than Beta though, since GA 3C > Gamma looks like it'd be leading to massive free damage otherwise.

Yeah, that's what I think too. Since we can do CS Gamma mid-screen anytime now, we'd probably be getting 4k+ off of everything if they didn't do that, although nerfing the 3C P2 to 79% might have been preferable actually. The CS Gamma nerf means all the normal mode combos do less damage now too, but I guess the point of normal mode combos is to get stocks anyways, so probably not a bit deal in the long run; or maybe the normal mode P2 is the same as now, since CS Alpha and Aegis Blade have different properties depending on which mode you're in. It's a possibility I suppose.

 

@ Celerity: Yeah, comboable 3C could make Trans-Am pretty sweet now. Hopefully there's a way to get the combo to do a lot more damage so we could take advantage of 6 stock combos if the opponent let's us get extra stocks. That would be pretty cool. It could be like Arakune curse combos, except with stocks.

[Seventh-Prodigy]

Haven't really been in touch with BBCP lately or with the patch notes. Since there's a reasonable amount of talk about using trans-am, I have to ask in interest -- does it still cost 4 stock and 50 Heat to activate? Is it really worth the damage if it still does?

[Surf]

The cost is still the same. The main two things they could have done with Trans Am is either make it less expensive, or have it last longer. They went with the later. Trans am as it is now lasts about 4 seconds if you keep Izayoi idle. So 1.1 version should last about 8 seconds, which is a really long time. That's not including the fact that the gauge slows down during hitstop. If you keep pressuring them or comboing, it can last much longer than 4 or 8 seconds. 

 

Imo it isn't extremely worth it as it is now but it will have a lot more utility in 1.1. For match ending pressure or high damaging combos

[skd]

from what ive seen, the downwards airdash angle is /almost/ literally inverted 66 (the descent seems sliiiightly less sharp than the normal dash ascent).

 

in an entire stream, out of like 10 rounds the izayoi player only GA airdashed twice, once forward and once backwards, lol.

 

Air backdash is indeed the "old" ground one, but vs the old air backdash the acceleration seems...slower? it might just be because her hitbox isnt as horizontal, hah

Edited March 23, 2014 by not_lunaris

[minlexx]

Do you mean this stream, http://www.twitch.tv/team_exe/b/513214402 since 02:49:46 ? Not enough Izayoi 1.10 videos, want more ((

[skd]

oh no, it was another stream. i didnt go through that archive, theres that and one more i should look through.

[Celerity]

What stream are you referring to? I'd like to add some 1.1 videos to the archive.

[Rhannmah]

from the vids i posted, we can see some new changes in effect, especially the GA airdash movement changes. The vertical control you have over your airdashes seems to be very slight (nothing like Aigis stuff), but one interesting thing I noticed is that it seems you can stop your airdashes whenever you want, seemingly making you fall stright down, which seems extremely useful for crossups. GA 3C corner stockless combos seem rather interesting. Also, loving that sonic saber D mirage thruster cancel for 1 stock.

 

 

oh no, it was another stream. i didnt go through that archive, theres that and one more i should look through.

 

How about some links?

[skd]

What stream are you referring to? I'd like to add some 1.1 videos to the archive.

http://www.twitch.tv/central804/b/513258295

 

this one has meat in it, theres a lot of examples of the new dash being used for crossup jC. The izayoi player shows up a ton of times throughout the tournament.

 

the other streams literally had...nothing

[Justice7541]

That airdash looks mad hype. You won't be flying up and down like Aigis but even a little bit of height adjustment will make triangle/air dash high/lows much more ambiguous. She just falls way too slow after her triangle dash currently to make a good mixup, the sooner she hits the ground the better.

[Celerity]

Yeah, I'm actually pretty excited about getting my hands on those new movement options. Air saber is going to be a lot more viable for space control now too.

[Angel-tastic]

Greetings all.

 

I've got a quick question for anyone who might know the answer. If you charge Izayoi's Crusade Seraphims, how long does it take her to attack after you release the button? I'm guessing it's different depending on which one you use since the stance cancels are different lengths, but I was curious since sometimes instead of stance cancelling CS Beta, you can catch people reacting to it by charging it instead, then attacking with it, so I was wondering how fast that actually is.

 

So I'm really excited about the new airdash. Before I was worried that it could make cross-up j.C harder to do, but it actually looks like it's much easier now. I guess that makes sense since you're flying toward the ground, so you'll land faster. Also, it looks like this makes it harder to anti-air Izayoi as well, since you can do what Koeru was doing in one of the streams and super jump -> airdash down j.C cross-up, which besides being trickier to block, leaves you safer from a lot of anti-air hitboxes it would seem. I'm sure we can bait and punish anti-airs now too with double airdash by doing a really obvious forward dash -> airdash back -> airdash forward j.C or something.

 

@Justice: Yeah, I was also really hoping airdash mix-ups could work after the patch. I'm not sure how you control her airdash yet, but I wonder if it's possible to IAD into the downward dash and do a low somehow. Her airdash looks much faster too, so that seems like it would be really effective. Hopefully whiffing air throws and stuff still makes her fall even faster.

 

@Rhannmah: I was thinking about the possibility of stock-less combos as well, and that would open up some interesting options. If we could do decent damage without stocks, then we could still do a good combo to finish the opponent after we run out of stocks and don't need the corner carry and oki from her stock specials anyway, instead of feeling like we have to switch back to normal mode. Also, that could benefit Trans-Am as well, since if we could do a stock-less combo after activating Trans-Am, then the 4 stocks actually aren't that much, especially if Tran-Am combos do more damage now. Likewise, it could make D Sonic Saber better in blockstrings too since you could maybe do a combo for 1 stock, then use the other 2 for D Sonic Sabers in our blockstrings or something.

 

That said, one thing I was excited about that I actually don't think works now is doing CS Gamma mid-screen after GA 3C. That doesn't connect does it. Oh well. 

[Celerity]

I've got a quick question for anyone who might know the answer. If you charge Izayoi's Crusade Seraphims, how long does it take her to attack after you release the button? I'm guessing it's different depending on which one you use since the stance cancels are different lengths, but I was curious since sometimes instead of stance cancelling CS Beta, you can catch people reacting to it by charging it instead, then attacking with it, so I was wondering how fast that actually is.

Charged 236C is 4F startup, and charged 236B is 5F, in addition to the charge time.

[NemesisZeru]

Pretty sure this is an embarassingly silly question, but how do you do Phorizor out of Strike Fall? Maybe I'm just not used to fighters on the PS3 controller yet, but I've only been able to do it all of once. >.>;

[Justice7541]

Pretty sure this is an embarassingly silly question, but how do you do Phorizor out of Strike Fall? Maybe I'm just not used to fighters on the PS3 controller yet, but I've only been able to do it all of once. >.>;

Either time it or mash it really fast. It also has to be high enough, if it doesn't combo into 5A you won't be able to make it go into Phorizer.