[CP1.1] Valkenhayn Gameplay Discussion

[Kriegdrache]

Right, I think it's just coming out too early as he'd just keep doing the dash instead of W.Ja.

Thanks guys. I was getting frustrated as I was getting it pretty much every time last night and now I suddenly can't do it. Pffft, I'm dumb.

[50-50罠]

One combo I have been inconsistent with is ch [w]5c> 6d~5d> 2c> 5c> moonlight> ct> 2c> 6b> 5b> 2c> jd~[w]ja> [w]jc> [w]jc> air eisen a> air eisen b> 7d~jd> jc> od> jc> strumuu. My inconsistency is landing the air beast cannon a after wolf jc. At first I thought it was a height issue, so I made an adjustment and let the character (Jin/Ragna) fall bit more parallel to Valk and I still drop it 80% of the time.

I have performed the combo entirely, but I don't understand why the cannon part is so inconsistent. I'm beginning to speculate that I may not be doing the buffer fast enough (which I did try as a buddy suggested) which kinda makes sense and for a strange reason felt like I had a little more consistency. At any rate any advice would make me a happy sasquatch.

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Edited December 4, 2013 by 50-50罠

[Kiba]

After trying this out several times I too got the wolf cannon inconsistency. It's a speed issue, so you've gotta be fast with your inputs. Also, try doing high jump j.D > wj.A. It makes it much easier to followup with j.236A after j.C.

On a side note, the CT is only adding 300 extra damage to the overall combo so you may be better off using:

5C CH > 6D > 5D > h[2C > 6C > 2C > 6B > 2C > 236A > 5B > 2C] > j.D > j.A > j.C > dj.C > j.236A > j.236B > 7D > j.D > h[j.C > OD > j.C > Sturm] [5650 DM]

Edited December 6, 2013 by Kiba

[Kriegdrache]

Just wanna say thanks, can pretty much get 6D > wja > 5D > h5B 100% of the time now.

You guys are the best. Character is a lot of fun, I'm really tempted to just focus on him now.

EDIT: I've been watching videos and I've noticed that players will go 5D > h5b > 2C > 6C > stuff rather than 5b > 5C > aerial. Is the former just really good for the corner carry? I'll have to practice it tonight because it seems pretty viable.

Also, I 've just realised I really should be posting this in the Q and A threads, sorry

Edited December 6, 2013 by Kriegdrache

[Dreize]

Don't apologize, it's perfectly fine. We're not going to crucify you, hah.

As for combos, the combo that you choose in any given situation is generally based off of:

1. Your starter.

2. How much wolf meter you have.

3. How much wolf meter you are willing to spend.

4. Where you are on the screen.

Midscreen w[j.A]/w[5A] confirms are generally going to be converted into the 5D > h[5B > 5C] > Aerial stuff since 6C wallbounce stuff isn't viable here due to weak starters.

w[5B]/w[j.B]/w[j.C]/w[5C] confirms can be converted into 5D > h[5B > 2C > 6C] stuff if you're close enough to the corner (except on Makoto and Carl).

Midscreen w[5B]/w[j.B]/w[j.C]/w[5C] confirms should almost always be converted into better stuff like 5D > h[5B > 5C > tk.214B > IAD], etc stuff.

EDIT: I've been watching videos and I've noticed that players will go 5D > h5b > 2C > 6C > stuff rather than 5b > 5C > aerial. Is the former just really good for the corner carry? I'll have to practice it tonight because it seems pretty viable.

So yeah, the 5D > h[5B > 5C > Aerial] stuff is mostly used off of weak starters whereas the 6C wallbounce stuff is generally used off of good starters (w[5B]/w[j.B]/w[j.C]/w[5C]) when you're close enough to the corner for the wallbounce.

[Kriegdrache]

Right, so basically "learn the route, but don't worry about making it your go to bnb"?

That makes things a lot easier, thanks man.

[Kiba]

Also, I 've just realised I really should be posting this in the Q and A threads, sorry

I'm not really strict when it comes to these things so don't worry it's all good. I'll move stuff around if it becomes too much.

As for combos, the combo that you choose in any given situation is generally based off of:

1. Your starter.

2. How much wolf meter you have.

3. How much wolf meter you are willing to spend.

4. Where you are on the screen.

Midscreen w[j.A]/w[5A] confirms are generally going to be converted into the 5D > h[5B > 5C] > Aerial stuff since 6C wallbounce stuff isn't viable here due to weak starters.

w[5B]/w[j.B]/w[j.C]/w[5C] confirms can be converted into 5D > h[5B > 2C > 6C] stuff if you're close enough to the corner (except on Makoto and Carl).

Midscreen w[5B]/w[j.B]/w[j.C]/w[5C] confirms should almost always be converted into better stuff like 5D > h[5B > 5C > tk.214B > IAD], etc stuff.

So yeah, the 5D > h[5B > 5C > Aerial] stuff is mostly used off of weak starters whereas the 6C wallbounce stuff is generally used off of good starters (w[5B]/w[j.B]/w[j.C]/w[5C]) when you're close enough to the corner for the wallbounce.

Incorporated into strategy guide. Nice one.

[50-50罠]

Ok glad somebody tried the combo out. I thought it might be height reasons. I will grind it out thanks a bunch kiba.

Edit: After grinding it out for several hours. I'm convinced its a height issue on the 2nd jc. I don't think the combo is really long enough for hit decay to make konig whiff. It seems more consistent if I get the right jump height on the 2nd jc. I'm really amazed at how hard this combo is lol.

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Edited December 7, 2013 by 50-50罠

[Kiba]

In the 'baiting and punishing' section of the strategy guide, I'm lacking information on punishment, and I'll take the time to explain it here. Of course many of you will already know this.

If in the usual case you bait a DP or reversal, always always punish with 6B regardless of whether it's midscreen or in the corner. It's the best confirm, it fatals, and you can rack up 4k+ from it, but to get that much damage you will need wolf command dashes. In the case where you have very little to no wolf meter midscreen your best option may be a 3C CH, as you have better followup options. You can do something like:

3C CH > 66 > 2C > 6B > 2C > 5C > hj.B > j.A > j.B > dj.B > j.C. If you use 6B FC, you'll have to followup with > (5B/2C) > 5C > 236B ~ 236B which won't deal as much damage. In addition, if you use 236C instead of 236B ~ 236B you won't be able to followup because you'll need a wolf command dash. Even if you have little to no wolf meter in the corner 6B is still your best punish.

There may be instances where you will be incapable of using 6B to punish due to spacing issues. In that case, your most convenient punish will be (5C CH) > 236C. In wolf form, w5C CH > 6D > 2C is the best punish, but remember to deal any real damage from this you'll need wolf command dashes. You won't be able to do much with no wolf meter from certain distances.

[Kriegdrache]

I'm going to have to practice 3C punishes, as it sounds like it can make life a lot easier. I usually punish with 6B if possibe and it's like you said, if I'm down on wolf meter, I usually have to just do a short combo ending in the 236B > 236B

Also, I wanted to ask: I was practicing a couple of combos last night, mainly (CO) 5B > 5C > 236C > 6D > w[j.C > dj.C > j.236A > j.236B > 6D > j.B > j.B > 5B > j.A > j.A > j.A > j.C] > dj.D > j.C because it felt very extendy and was fairly easy to do (this is my main combo of FC 6B btw lol), but instead of JAx3 > JC > dj.D > JC, I've been doing w5B > transformation > JB > JB > JC. I dunno if this is a worse ender or not, but I've been feeling very comfortable doing it. Is there any disadvantage to this ender?

[Kiba]

Also, I wanted to ask: I was practicing a couple of combos last night, mainly (CO) 5B > 5C > 236C > 6D > w[j.C > dj.C > j.236A > j.236B > 6D > j.B > j.B > 5B > j.A > j.A > j.A > j.C] > dj.D > j.C because it felt very extendy and was fairly easy to do (this is my main combo of FC 6B btw lol), but instead of JAx3 > JC > dj.D > JC, I've been doing w5B > transformation > JB > JB > JC. I dunno if this is a worse ender or not, but I've been feeling very comfortable doing it. Is there any disadvantage to this ender?

The difference between the two enders is minor. j.A > j.A > j.A > j.C] > dj.D > j.C ender you much higher in the air than the j.B > dj.B > j.C ender. j.B > dj.B > j.C is also slightly stronger, but the damage difference is miniscule.

The j.B > dj.B > j.C ender is easier, more stable, slightly stronger, and has less air time meaning you can get to your opponent quicker as you land. If you use this ender in the corner then you need to be wary about roll outs (unless you use j.8B > dj.8B > j.8C).

The j.A > j.A > j.A > j.C] > dj.D > j.C ender allows you to catch those who don't tech with falling j.C to kinda force them to tech in the corner. However, midscreen, you're left higher in the air so your opponent has an easier time getting away, and the j.C > dj.D >j.C can be real strict with certain combos.

Edited December 11, 2013 by Kiba

[Kriegdrache]

Oh okay, that makes a lot of sense then. I'm kind of glad I'm not screwing it up by using that ender, thanks Kiba.

Yeah, I found myself using JB JB JC just cause it didn't feel as strict, but now that I know it can force techs I should try and implement it more. (y)

[Dreize]

Calling all Valkenhayn players.

How are you guys doing in terms of consistency? I'm really not doing that well.

[Shyn]

Do you mean in results or like execution? I've done fine I guess overall but sometimes (like if I'm nervous) I can't do shit for execution. Like I'm sure you noticed if you watched me at all at NEC. XD

In general though I don't think valk is actually that good of a character for consistent like, win streaks and such. He can be kinda unstable...

Edited December 14, 2013 by Shyn

[Dreize]

Execution. I do pretty well in terms of results.

I only watched a very tiny bit of NEC. Think I saw your match vs Delta and vs Brkdave (hopefully I spelt those names correctly).

Your match vs Delta was a bit sloppy (but I'm sure you already knew that), I was like "Damn, Shyn must be really nervous".

I personally don't think that he's bad for consistent win streaks but some of his stuff is a bit wonky. Really though executional consistency means a lot more to me then winning a match. I'd much rather lose and execute everything correctly than win and mess everything up.

[Kriegdrache]

Calling all Valkenhayn players.

How are you guys doing in terms of consistency? I'm really not doing that well.

I'm still learning him so I'm not very good atm, but I managed to do wja > 5D > h5b in netplay last night so I'm getting there!

I still cant do wolf brakes tho, but I'm not worrying as my valk is still a baby. I'm probably going to straight up main him tbh, I cant play Haku for shit anymore.

[Naphiel]

I've made a fair amount of progress in the last few days in that I'm using single reps of the wolf loop for pressure and stuff like w5B > 1DCA on a consistent basis now. I got motivated to get better after watching and playing a set in which I was really rusty. I'm still not happy with it though. While I'll get it 10 times in a row in one set, I'll completely throw myself off the right wolf brake timing in one game until I tell myself to slow things down. I also really want to work on wolf movement.

Two things I have particular difficulty in getting consistently are wJ.C > 6DC > falling wJ.B and comboing after w5C > 3D > w4C midscreen if both of the WCs connect.

[KaiserCX]

In terms of execution I'm fairly consistent in training (I have off days), but I can generally do wolf loops to a decent extent and I have BnBs down to an extent I'm happy with. But in matches online (on a good connection) I'm consistent at dropping stuff! I often drop simple stuff that I can do 95% of the time offline such as w5B/C > 1DCA and w5C > 3D4C as well as the 1D > 5D > h[2C...] part of w(j.)5B/C combos.

I'd much rather lose and execute everything correctly than win and mess everything up.

I definitely agree with that, I'm much happier losing knowing I did everything right in terms of execution. When I drop most of my stuff and win it makes me feel fraudulent and I feel like I didn't deserve the win honestly.

Also to Kiba, good job on the command grab set-up video. Also what is with the lack of good JP Valk players of recent? I wish there was a footage of a regular good JP Valk like in the Hima/Zekuso days of Extend, such a shame they seem to have stopped playing. I also like Yuitaba a lot, but I haven't seen anything from him recently either.

Edited December 14, 2013 by KaiserCX

[Kiba]

I'm inconsistent and I agree with Shyn that Valkenhayn can be unstable. It just adds to the difficulty in using Valk.

Generally, I would say that I have my combos down; they're usually not an issue. My execution is quite good, but has actually gotten better in the past few days. Sometimes I fail w5C > Wolf break > w5C & brjA if I'm not thinking straight, and I remember I used to fail following up with Sturm Wolf from 3C > OD due to misinputs. Also I must confess, I remember I used to really fail in doing meaty brjA. In the wolf brake tutorial, it actually took me a while before I managed to land it...

I have been spending much more time in training mode with Valk practicing wolf brake,various combos & OD stuff. I think this is crucial for consistency, because I can see it paying off. Afaik the only consistent Valks I've seen are Hima and Shuu I think. I know I've definitely seen Zekuso and Masashi have their off days.

I don't believe there is anything else that stands out, but this is all excluding online for obvious reasons.

I'd much rather lose and execute everything correctly than win and mess everything up.

This is why I'm salty sometimes and people don't seem to understand.

Also to Kiba, good job on the command grab set-up video. Also what is with the lack of good JP Valk players of recent? I wish there was a footage of a regular good JP Valk like in the Hima/Zekuso days of Extend, such a shame they seem to have stopped playing. I also like Yuitaba a lot, but I haven't seen anything from him recently either.

Thanks Kaiser, and well, since the console release we haven't really seen much Valks. I stumbled across some nico videos and found Nao. Also I caught Yuitaba squaring off against Boku Zen in one of the lobbies lol.

Edited December 14, 2013 by Kiba

[KaiserCX]

This is why I'm salty sometimes and people don't seem to understand.

Yep it may seem like you're being an asshole for being upset even when you won (although I generally try to not complain), but I don't feel happy about myself when I win and drop nearly everything.

I stumbled across some nico videos and found Nao. Also I caught Yuitaba squaring off against Boku Zen in one of the lobbies lol.

Sweet could you post what you use to search for them on Nico please? I tried ゆいたば and 結束氏 for Yuitaba but I believe the last video uploaded was from September 26th.

Edited December 14, 2013 by KaiserCX

[Kriegdrache]

I feel that I don't have combos down enough to even attempt to intergrate wolf brakes into my gameplay. For one thing, i can't do them right now (I'm hoping to get a stick soon to remedy this) and I'm still getting comfy with Valk so I'd feel like I'd be jumping off the deep end.

I had a pretty long, fun offline session with my buddy Shruikon today, and I got a little more used to the character, but I still feel like my movement and wolf meter management needs improvement. I was using OD to refill my meter superfast if I ran out, and I don't even know if that's a viable tactic or not, it didn't feel like a waste but I'm guessing you guys prob wouldn't recommend it. apart from that, I was cancelling JC with ODC to get more damage for Konig Flug so I could kill. I don't think I managed to 3C > OD > Sturm tho.

On the plus side, I've been using wolf grab a HELL of a lot more.

[Magaki]

I remember I used to fail following up with Sturm Wolf from 3C > OD due to misinputs.

Psssssssst ! In order to never fail Sturm, instead of doing 632146D, go for 632147896D as a gatling. In other words, pull a Tager and 360 your way through. Works with any 632146 motion in the game.

As for consistency, I always grind the same combos again and again. Which consists of combos that use a minimum amount of wolf gauge so I don't really have any particular problem with execution in itself. Only combo I can't manage to pull off consistently in matches is 236B>236B>1DCA. Gotta grind more I guess.

My only problem so far with Valk is simply defense-related.

[Kiba]

Sweet could you post what you use to search for them on Nico please? I tried ゆいたば and 結束氏 for Yuitaba but I believe the last video uploaded was from September 26th.

I type in 'BBCP' when I want to catch the latest vids, but if I'm specifically looking for Valkenhayn I type 'BBCP ヴァルケンハイン'. If you're looking for a particular player, you can get the Japanese name in the video thread.

Psssssssst ! In order to never fail Sturm, instead of doing 632146D, go for 632147896D as a gatling. In other words, pull a Tager and 360 your way through. Works with any 632146 motion in the game.

Thanks man, I'll give it a go. Also sorry man, I owe you games.

[EXonestar]

This is why I'm salty sometimes and people don't seem to understand.

Try just ignore the people who talk nonsense. Especially those who literally say "it worked out anyways so idk why you're upset" That probably makes your blood boil.

Just block em out. you know what you have to do next time. Just iron it out next time.

[Aki-]

When it comes to execution I tend to be 80% on point with combos, hell 1DCA isn't even a problem like it was at first. However whenever it comes to online play, I tend to drop the smallest of things, I find it difficult to use 1DCA and certain combos online it eats at me and I get salty because I know I can do better. I hate it when I land a solid hit like midscreen W[5c] online because I wanna do something like W[5c]>6D>J.A>5b>5c>TK214b>IAD>J.aa>2c ect but the timing feels bleh online that I just go for a half ass combo in fear of dropping it and paying for it with my life, pardon my english. lol

Edited December 15, 2013 by Aki-