Kanta-Kun Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 "What's the point of making characters difficult to use?" I'm relatively new to GG, but I think that homogenizing execution requirements so that no character stands out as a "high execution character" is not a good change to the game, at all. Even if it does make it "more fair" in a way ("Why should I have to do all this stuff when other characters can do much less for the same or better result.") I personally enjoy picking higher execution characters because I like to press buttons. I usually don't play games that have very low execution requirements. It's fine if the basic stuff is easy to execute, but stuff like IAD TK specials doesn't really need a bigger buffer window. There's a reason why that kind of thing falls into the "advanced techniques" category.
STenSatsu Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 Eh, I know plenty of people who dropped I-no because of her execution requirements to be competitive even though they enjoyed her character and playstyle, which I think is a shame. Even myself play Anji mostly because he's fun but also a bit because he let's me focus on things like mind games and strategy rather than trying to get flaming yoyo setups or 1hit ensengas.
oldkiller Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 Remember In #R May 4->6H dolphin FRC has 2 outcomes depends on when you FRC. First is May will touch the ground immediately, second is May floats in the air for a brief moment, with this you can Air Dash if you Jump Install, and that just 2-3 frames. Now if we broaden the FRC frames then ? Other fake FRCs like Jam 2D or Potemkin 6H, if FRC frames were longer, then it will be both fake and hit FRC ? BB doesn't have FRC but it has Rapid even when doing haduken move. Now if we have RC Ice spike and RC stun edge ?
OneSanitarium Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 Jam's 2D can FRC on the first frame it hits IIRC.
Kanta-Kun Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 Eh, I know plenty of people who dropped I-no because of her execution requirements to be competitive even though they enjoyed her character and playstyle, which I think is a shame. It is, but it comes with the character. At least AC is a balanced enough game where you only have to deal with "can I execute?" when picking a character. Other more unbalanced games pretty much strike out certain cast choices, even if you love a character. (Marvel 2, for the easy example) However, maybe I-no is a character that should be streamlined slightly (I personally dont know, never tried to do her hard stuff). At a certain point, common sense has to kick in and if a character is waaaay harder to use than the average, some tuning is in order.
TheRealBobMan Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 I wrote an extra-big-ass post about why this execution argument is driving me nuts, decided no one would want to read it, and swapped it out for this. You can thank me for saving 10 minutes of your time by being hyped for the game instead of talking about execution requirements. Digital Watches is right, GGAC is still fun, and I'd rather be practicing my needlessly hard HCL combos than reading this thread because of all of the BS in here (so I'm going to start doing that right now). I'd rather play I-No than Millia. I'd rather play I-No than Faust. I'm not going to complain if they make her any easier. I will be sad if she's not in Xrd if there's no replacement for her free-form play style, but I'll get over it. THE END
destruction_adv Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 "What's the point of making characters difficult to use?" I'm relatively new to GG, but I think that homogenizing execution requirements so that no character stands out as a "high execution character" is not a good change to the game, at all. Even if it does make it "more fair" in a way ("Why should I have to do all this stuff when other characters can do much less for the same or better result.") I personally enjoy picking higher execution characters because I like to press buttons. I usually don't play games that have very low execution requirements. It's fine if the basic stuff is easy to execute, but stuff like IAD TK specials doesn't really need a bigger buffer window. There's a reason why that kind of thing falls into the "advanced techniques" category. Why make a character stand out as a "high execution" character when they can stand out as a "great mix-up" or "cool mindgame" character
Xtra_Zero Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 Why make a character stand out as a "high execution" character when they can stand out as a "great mix-up" or "cool mindgame" character those are things all characters should have, imo.
Kanta-Kun Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 ^This Why make a character stand out as a "high execution" character when they can stand out as a "great mix-up" or "cool mindgame" character Because there are those that enjoy high execution characters. And one does not negate the other. A character can be mixup oriented, still be high execution and stand out for both of those reasons (MvC2 Magneto). Execution is an added layer of fun, for some people, not a chore or a barrier.
destruction_adv Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 (edited) those are things all characters should have, imo. I'm not sure about that. Every character having great mix-ups could really throw the game outta wack. I will agree that the reasons I mentioned are not mutually exclusive. Edited May 23, 2013 by destruction_adv
Digital Watches Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 (edited) Execution is an added layer of fun, for some people, not a chore or a barrier. Some people like the taste of methanol, but that doesn't mean we should put it in everyone's drinks. Edited May 23, 2013 by Digital Watches
Xtra_Zero Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 (edited) I'm not sure about that. Every character having great mix-ups could really throw the game outta wack. Uh, what? Not having mixups means you can't win. If you can't get your opponent to block wrong, how are you supposed to hit them? If you give a character bad mixups you essentially get a bad character. Why was CT Rachel good? j.2C and 2B. Why is Naoto bad despite being able to OHKO the whole cast? Bad mixups. The same thing is seen in SF4 with a few characters. I'm really missing something here. Could someone explain this to me? Edited May 23, 2013 by Xtra_Zero
Digital Watches Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 (I was referring to execution barriers, not mixup. I'll quote the post I was responding to in order to clarify.)
mAc Chaos Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 Well, if you don't have good mixup, you could still win during neutral. And there are various kinds of mixups, not just overheads and lows. There's frame traps and stagger pressure.
TheRealBobMan Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 (edited) So how about that new... burst effect? Edited May 23, 2013 by TheRealBobMan HERPA DERP BURP
Ctrlaltwtf Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 NEW GUILTY GEAR IS COMING OUT IT'S GOT 3D GRAPHICS AND I LIKE THAT. I'm trying here.
Digital Watches Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 TOON SHADING IS HELLA COOL LOOKING. ALSO I LIKE THE DUST ANIMATIONS.
mAc Chaos Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 I'm fine with all the execution talk. It's related to the game.
Xtra_Zero Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 Well, if you don't have good mixup, you could still win during neutral. Wouldn't that just be arbitrary guessing? (Not that there's anything wrong with that) And there are various kinds of mixups, not just overheads and lows. There's frame traps and stagger pressure. I'm not differentiating here. Mixups are mixups. If you don't have them, you don't have them, if they're bad compared to other characters then they're bad compared to other characters.
mAc Chaos Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 Neutral is not about guessing, it's about using your options at the best ranges to control the opponent and get an advantage on them. In other words, footsies.
TheRealBobMan Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 This is Guilty Gear. Everyone has instant throw, at least one grounded overhead, and at least one grounded low. EVERYONE HAS MIXUP. NOT EVERYONE NEEDS TO BE MILLIA. NOT EVERYONE NEEDS TO BE HARD, AND NOT EVERYONE NEEDS TO BE EASY. So, Ky's ankles are looking extremely flimsy. Also, not only does his sword seem shorter, but with the way he animates, it looks like his range is significantly nerfed. j.S is that crescent looking swing right? Doesn't it seem to have way less range?
StayFree( ' 3') Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 Neutral is not about guessing, it's about using your options at the best ranges to control the opponent and get an advantage on them. In other words, footsies. worst mac post. ever.
Digital Watches Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 They finally decided ky wasn't manly enough to have all that range.
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