Kyosuke Kagami Posted June 4, 2013 Posted June 4, 2013 Well, GGAC's Ky and Dizzy endings and GG2 overall plot are still connected
Kitsoru Posted June 4, 2013 Posted June 4, 2013 If there were FMVs like what we saw at the end of the reveal trailer I think there are 2 rather safe assumptions that can be made: - Frequency will probably [at least] be on the level of animated sequences in BB's story modes - The Unreal Engine could've been requisitioned for this exact reason, to reduce the cost of making these sequences [as everything could be produced easier "in house"] and allow for greater creative control. Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking. For comparison, looking at the GGX trailer (and I suppose, the XX intro movie since by the looks of it they were done by the same company?), I'm sure those alone cost them quite a bit at that time... If they can do that themselves with the technology available now, I'd hope that they would. They're really emphasizing this mix of the 3D and the 2D and we know that Daisuke himself likes the western-style real-time cinematic game look.
Agni Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 If there were FMVs like what we saw at the end of the reveal trailer I think there are 2 rather safe assumptions that can be made: - Frequency will probably [at least] be on the level of animated sequences in BB's story modes - The Unreal Engine could've been requisitioned for this exact reason, to reduce the cost of making these sequences [as everything could be produced easier "in house"] and allow for greater creative control. That's...really low. If it is cheaper and quicker, why not take advantage of that and have more of those kinds of cutscenes? In any case, I don't think FMV is a good term for them.
Volt Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 That creepy PWAB fucker is also a dumb character with no real relevance aside from the fact that he's a Japanese guy who betrayed his nation as well as Johnny's Iaido teacher. I would not be surprised if Daisuke just flat out said "AC+ is not canon". If that's the case I'd like if Ishitawari said most of AC+ isn't canon. I never knew anything about Crow being Johnny's master, the only thing that I've noticed regarding the relationship of Johnny and Crow was that he hated Crow and then Crow threw a Justice clone at him (And he does that to everyone else...)
Kitsoru Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 If that's the case I'd like if Ishitawari said most of AC+ isn't canon. I never knew anything about Crow being Johnny's master, the only thing that I've noticed regarding the relationship of Johnny and Crow was that he hated Crow and then Crow threw a Justice clone at him (And he does that to everyone else...) He's not Johnny's master, they had the *same* master. Ufomi.. something? Anyway, Crow betrayed him and caused the school to fail/possibly killed him?? (Don't quite remember the specifics) edit: just looked it up, got thrown into a dimensional prison (like Zato's or Justice's) for it, which is why Johnny doesn't like him.
SolxBaiken Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 That's...really low. If it is cheaper and quicker, why not take advantage of that and have more of those kinds of cutscenes? In any case, I don't think FMV is a good term for them. I'm not 100% sure what you're trying to say... Sure it's "cheaper and quicker" [which itself is still a gross over simplification] to produce those types of FMVs but I highly doubt Arc will blow that production value in the arcade release, the "story mode" there will probably be simple and effective like any other arcade fighter. Who knows how they plan on telling the consumer story, but I think it's pretty safe to say they'll at least have a much FMVs as animated sequences were present in BB [which, isn't alot, so it's not like that's a high goal ] Also FMV, CG cinematic, call it what you will but it's obvious those sequences are pre-rendered as opposed to the game's primary engine. And perhaps they will use alot of real-time cinematics, doesn't mean they won't use [the admittedly gorgeous] FMV/CG sequences. Also Crow is the worst character in GG history, this is coming from a girl that loves and adores Leopaldon lol. Nothing they do with the character will make me like him.
Kitsoru Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 Also Crow is the worst character in GG history, this is coming from a girl that loves and adores Leopaldon lol. Nothing they do with the character will make me like him. Personally I don't like him either but I find him a lot more clever/bearable when you look at him as a take-that on creepy Dizzy fanboys
Agni Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 I'm not 100% sure what you're trying to say... Sure it's "cheaper and quicker" [which itself is still a gross over simplification] to produce those types of FMVs but I highly doubt Arc will blow that production value in the arcade release, the "story mode" there will probably be simple and effective like any other arcade fighter. Who knows how they plan on telling the consumer story, but I think it's pretty safe to say they'll at least have a much FMVs as animated sequences were present in BB [which, isn't alot, so it's not like that's a high goal ] Also FMV, CG cinematic, call it what you will but it's obvious those sequences are pre-rendered as opposed to the game's primary engine. And perhaps they will use alot of real-time cinematics, doesn't mean they won't use [the admittedly gorgeous] FMV/CG sequences. Also Crow is the worst character in GG history, this is coming from a girl that loves and adores Leopaldon lol. Nothing they do with the character will make me like him. Oh, I was referring exclusively to the story mode of the inevitable console release. What I meant is that I think they should use actual cinematics for at least really important moments in the story mode now that it's easier and cheaper to make them. And more often than BB. Like maybe one for each character's story, near the end?
Kongk4 Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 After re-watching this trailer for the 100th or whatever time. I desided it's time I make an account since I feel that this game is the next sort of game to draw in a masive amount of interested new players. Since it's a long awaited sequal to a well known series. Kind of like how SF4 and BBCT(though BB was a different case) did so back in 09. What do you think? I'm pretty new to the series myself for possible obvious reasons, and I hope to become good in the future. So anyways, hello... PS: Sorry if this was ether already discussed or if this post sounds a bit too "off-topic".
BladeOfJustice7 Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 I agree with Kongk4, if you go on ArcSys' channel the amount of views Xrd has makes that very clear.
nnecron Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 I wonder why GG forces you to do a very strictly timed button presses like FRC. You do feel skilled once you nailed that timing, but other than that there is not much point to letting players do Guitar Hero in mid-fight. There are only few frames of delay so why not simplify it by turning it into an additional command that lets you chancel at certain moment? For instance, in addition to Sol's "Gun Flame" command if you pressed quarter circle forward P+D the move will be chanceled at the exact same moment as you do with normal GF FRC. There may be some input issues with the example I gave, but you get my point. FRC is suppose to be an essential game mechanic that is holding back newbies from experiencing itself.
Hecatom Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 (edited) You are like 100 pages late. It has been already discussed why they are the way they are, why they are "hard" and that many would be ok if they turn them into force breaks, but not remove the concept since it adds a lot of what makes GG, GG, not to mention a lot of depth. Also, again, fuck this mentality where everything needs to be easy, it sickens me that everyone feels that they should be able to do everything without putting any effort, nothing against making things more accessible though, but sick that nothing can be "HAAAAAARD" because everyone cries like babies. Also add a huge eewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww to this story talk. Edit, it also annoys me when people talk about mechanics that they don't understand and lack the knowledge of the context behind them. Edited June 5, 2013 by Hecatom
White Man Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 Also, again, fuck this mentality where everything needs to be easy, it sickens me that everyone feels that they should be able to do everything without putting any effort Simply playing the game well enough to outsmart and/or outmaneuver your opponent takes effort, man. I don't see anybody talking about making the game effortless to play, only possible ways they might simplify ONE single gameplay mechanic that is (arguably) needlessly difficult to execute and presents a gigantic roadblock to new players that could potentially turn them away from the game. But yeah, Necron, giving canceled moves their own inputs is basically the same thing as taking FRCs out of the game and replacing them with command moves ala FBs. In either case you're simply removing the timing aspect by automatically cutting off a move's recovery frames for the cost of a certain amount of meter.
nnecron Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 I'm just saying. It'll let you do the exact same thing with the same advantage that comes from the original system with few tweaks. FRC can be used as a combo extender, tech trap, rushdown, and mixups. I just don't think non of these would be affected with the idea that I came up since it's only a few frames of difference. I'm sure I'm not the first one, but if there is a flaw in my suggestion then tell me. Just wanted to have a nice discussion about it that's all.
nnecron Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 Simply playing the game well enough to outsmart and/or outmaneuver your opponent takes effort, man. I don't see anybody talking about making the game effortless to play, only possible ways they might simplify ONE single gameplay mechanic that is (arguably) needlessly difficult to execute and presents a gigantic roadblock to new players that could potentially turn them away from the game. But yeah, Necron, giving canceled moves their own inputs is basically the same thing as taking FRCs out of the game and replacing them with command moves ala FBs. In either case you're simply removing the timing aspect by automatically cutting off a move's recovery frames for the cost of a certain amount of meter. I can see where the flaw would rise up with this system I came up with. A player would still want to do a move right after the chancel so you still have to know the exact timing even if chanceling itself has become more accessible.
Rhannmah Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 There is a flaw. It is that often, FRC's will be used as confirms if the move hit, or if the move puts you at a disadvantageous position, things you do not necessarily know at the beginning of the move. I think the best proposed solution to make FRC's easier is the input buffer, like in Blazblue. This basically extends the input window going in the FRC by some frames, without altering FRC functionality(without making it be cancellable earlier).
Hecatom Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 There are flaws on every possible solution actually, like you said the FB solution actually takes away some options of the moves that have their frc point late in the move. The buffer one forces that the frc happens on the 1st frame of the frc point (if the move has more than 1 frame of frc point of course), so if it happens that the move grants different outcomes depending of the frame where you cancel, you don't have access to the others :/ One thing that i think that ASW should add is some sort of visual cue that can serve as a guide to see when the frc point happens, as long is not too distracting but is clear enough it can help the players imo.
nnecron Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 There are flaws on every possible solution actually, like you said the FB solution actually takes away some options of the moves that have their frc point late in the move. The buffer one forces that the frc happens on the 1st frame of the frc point (if the move has more than 1 frame of frc point of course), so if it happens that the move grants different outcomes depending of the frame where you cancel, you don't have access to the others :/ One thing that i think that ASW should add is some sort of visual cue that can serve as a guide to see when the frc point happens, as long is not too distracting but is clear enough it can help the players imo. Thanks, that answered my question, and your solution may be better than the others. If that's the solution they are going to take, then they have to make that visual cue appear a bit earlier because as you may have experience in the training mode, pressing at the moment you see the flash on the input viewer isn't early enough.
Agni Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 All FRCs need is some SLIGHTLY increased windows (the buffer can do this as said above) and some kind of cue. I've never actually played a GG game (though I'm looking to buy AC Plus R) but I like how it has lots of detail and depth in the system with things like FRCs, they should remain the same way to keep that kind of depth.
Hecatom Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 Larger windows can fuck the outcome, i made an example some posts ago on how having a wider window is not an optimal solution. The thing that works mostly against the FRC in terms of making them more easy to perform is mostly the nature of the mechanic, the moves and frames where they are assigned and the intended use for them. And the alternatives have drawbacks since they don't work exactly as the frc. The more optimal way to make them easy without changing much of them would be make the game slower, but i am pretty sure that no many people would like the idea
Volt Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 What about this: You can do a FRC in every frame of the move (But it will only cancel at the FRC Point) and that costs you 50 tension. However, If you actually hit the right timing, It only costs 25 tension like it is now. The newer players will be able to do them and the older players will be able to do it cheaper but harder.
Kyosuke Kagami Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 Dudes, calm down. The "make FRC timing less strict" shit, I'd agree as long as it's not bonkers. See the case of Axl's S charge move FRC. IIRC it was liek... 1 frame? In #R they made it 2 frames (a lot easier to deal with). That kind of changes would be nice. It's not like people here is asking 20 frames FRCs lol
Dandy J Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 theres a pretty simple and obvious solution. ok for example gunflame frc happens on frame 21. you then make the window for the frc from frame 1 through frame 21. if the command is input any time from frames 1 through 21, then the frc occurs on frame 21. if the command is input on frame 22, the frc does not occur. is there some sort of problem with this solution?
nnecron Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 That's basically what I said. Agni and Hecatom have already made their explanation so read either of them.
Volt Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 theres a pretty simple and obvious solution. ok for example gunflame frc happens on frame 21. you then make the window for the frc from frame 1 through frame 21. if the command is input any time from frames 1 through 21, then the frc occurs on frame 21. if the command is input on frame 22, the frc does not occur. is there some sort of problem with this solution? Most people actually just want a Slightly larger window, but not too much, after all it still needs to be a little hard.
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