[Xrd] News & (Theoretical) Gameplay Discussion

[Hecatom]

I think that the key frames is more like a stylistic choice to keep the 2d feel of their games

[STenSatsu]

I actually think that the 6P counter hit effect is akin to the sliding effect of some attacks (i also think that it looks cool and they should keep it)

Hmm, I didn't really think of it like that. I guess I'm so used to them being on their back during the slide I hadn't even considered it since the trailer style made it seem like the enemy wasn't vulnerable, I guess that is the best way I can put it. Now that you mention it like that though I guess it would be fine and could be much cooler.

Actually I just realized I was linking the in game effect with the transition into Sol's introduction in my head. The actual game animation still was just a tumble where I was thinking it was just him sliding back while crouched essentially. So props to the ASW cinematic team for making that seamless enough and bad on me for the mistake lol.

[Slaythe]

It's nothing like blazblue, they are using unreal engine because they definitely placed the characters on a 3D plane. Just an extremely controlled one since the goal is 2D fighting. If you look into how Broken Age ( double fine adventure ) implemented their 2D game in their 3D engine you'll have a better idea.

Also, once again, pixel art = looks only good on ONE resolution, perfect for arcade, hell to handle for thousands of customers on consoles, + removes the ability to do fancy close ups like all those successful fighters in America.

And also, since they already have movesets to base the new ones on, it's a fast way to reuse them while still getting a lot of visual change thanks to 3D allowing more details. Seriously, Ky's face looks perfect on every angle, as well as the shadows on it. There is way too much control here on several level ( that I can elaborate if you will ) that does not let me think it's simple 3D.

[Chaoschao222]

Also, once again, pixel art = looks only good on ONE resolution, perfect for arcade, hell to handle for thousands of customers on consoles, + removes the ability to do fancy close ups like all those successful fighters in America.

Those "successful fighters" were doing fine before fancy close-ups, though, and even sprite-based fighters have cut-ins.

[Ctrlaltwtf]

It's nothing like blazblue, they are using unreal engine because they definitely placed the characters on a 3D plane. Just an extremely controlled one since the goal is 2D fighting. If you look into how Broken Age ( double fine adventure ) implemented their 2D game in their 3D engine you'll have a better idea.

Also, once again, pixel art = looks only good on ONE resolution, perfect for arcade, hell to handle for thousands of customers on consoles, + removes the ability to do fancy close ups like all those successful fighters in America.

And also, since they already have movesets to base the new ones on, it's a fast way to reuse them while still getting a lot of visual change thanks to 3D allowing more details. Seriously, Ky's face looks perfect on every angle, as well as the shadows on it. There is way too much control here on several level ( that I can elaborate if you will ) that does not let me think it's simple 3D.

You are seriously underestimating the power of 3D visuals. Lights and camera manipulation have been around forever so it's not surprising that all the angles look good. Light sources and effects (and a ton of other things) can be tracked to the camera or offset from the camera in certain ways that they give attractive effects no matter what angle the object in question is being shown at.

Simple example: A fill light is tracked to the character that points directly into the camera at all times. This prevents the character from ever having overly dark shadows no matter what angle he's shot at.

[Destin]

I always thought the groundslide and wall struck were very clearly arc's attempt to reuse sprites to create a new game

Mechanic. The both looked pretty out of place, this new tumble looks fantastic though!

[Tong]

I wonder how they're going to animate the likes of Robo Ky and Faust, if you're limited to a character model.

Sprite allows more freedom when it comes to drawing unique animations.

[SolxBaiken]

Sprite allows more freedom when it comes to drawing unique animations.

Can't tell if serious or just misinformed.

Drawing a sprite makes it "easier" to have outlandish things on screen [but still a pain in the ass to animate] but switching/using 3D models doesn't take away any of the freedom. In fact since it's easier to keep 3D models consistent, that's the whole reason they're used in the creation of modern high end 2D sprites [blazBlue, King of Fighters XIII].

If anything it just depends on how adept Arc's staff is with 3D modeling [battle Fantasia was plenty good looking and whacky to me] which will determine how much time is invested into creating the desired outputs.

[shtkn]

I wonder how they're going to animate the likes of Robo Ky and Faust, if you're limited to a character model.

Sprite allows more freedom when it comes to drawing unique animations.

They could create model for those things like Morrigan/hsien-ko in mvc3

Sent from my phone using Tapatalk

[Circuitous]

It's nothing like blazblue, they are using unreal engine because they definitely placed the characters on a 3D plane. Just an extremely controlled one since the goal is 2D fighting. If you look into how Broken Age ( double fine adventure ) implemented their 2D game in their 3D engine you'll have a better idea.

...this is what BlazBlue does. The sprites are on a 3D stage. The fact that they're pixel art is irrelevant.

Also, once again, pixel art = looks only good on ONE resolution, perfect for arcade, hell to handle for thousands of customers on consoles, + removes the ability to do fancy close ups like all those successful fighters in America.

Coincidentally 3D makes all of that much easier, too!

[Tong]

There are things sprites can do better and easily than 3D, and vice versa.

And yes, I'm aware that ASW uses 3D to then draw the 2D sprites, but look at how they edit each sprite to give motion and other effects.

Xrd is mixing both worlds, realtime 3D models + keyframes to keep the "sprite feel". My point is while motion effects are feasible, how to properly implement that into characters that have weird and unorthodox frames/motions?

[Volt]

What if Ky's 6P in the trailer was his Dead Angle?

[OneSanitarium]

I don't think he was in block stun when he did it.

[Circuitous]

He definitely wasn't, just looked like a counter hit 6P.

[Slaythe]

There are things sprites can do better and easily than 3D, and vice versa.

And yes, I'm aware that ASW uses 3D to then draw the 2D sprites, but look at how they edit each sprite to give motion and other effects.

Xrd is mixing both worlds, realtime 3D models + keyframes to keep the "sprite feel". My point is while motion effects are feasible, how to properly implement that into characters that have weird and unorthodox frames/motions?

Well to be fair, if you look at the trailer, there are many animations that are skipping frames in a classic anime way, so I absolutely would not worry about the stylized characters. The animation design is probably unnafected as you pointed out, both snk and arc use the 3D as base even with sprite.

Now, out of hundreds of cell shaded games, none have had perfect outlines, perfect faces on ALL angles ( Ky's ultimate is seriously gorgeous technically speaking, even if the design itself is still not the best), anime shading ( that is not always following the actual shapes for artistic purposes ), NO clipping, anime styled animation to a new level etc...

And suddenly Arc system would just outclass the whole world ? (lets not mention how horrid capcom games look on a cell shade point of view ) Or don't you think it's more probable that this is a mix more pronounced of the method they re used to, 3D + HD edits ? Look at the launch close ups, once they jump the key frames remains identical. It's also possible these are 3D models with hd 2D layers, but since they need Vsync, perfect constant FPS and smooth netplay, seems like overdoing it since they know exactly which frames to render then edit a bit.

Edited June 1, 2013 by Slaythe

[Narroo]

At the least, the no clipping thing has been explained. Clipping is actually a natural logic error that you usually have to program out. What's going on is Z-planing something or nother where is that one guy who explained it.

The other stuff? I have no clue.

[Ctrlaltwtf]

At the least, the no clipping thing has been explained. Clipping is actually a natural logic error that you usually have to program out. What's going on is Z-planing something or nother where is that one guy who explained it.

It's called X-Raying, basically it means that Object A is always rendered in front of Object B, despite them clipping through each other. Imagine something similar to Layers in Photoshop. The term comes from when modelers needed to edit the bones of a skeleton rig after it's already placed within a mesh. By making the Skeleton always show it becomes simple to select and edit it even though it's technically "behind" or inside a mesh. It sounds simple at first but it can sometimes really fuck with your head when you see it in motion.

I don't think there's any of this "HD 2D" editing he is talking about, I'm not even really sure what that is supposed to mean. 3D animation is technically nothing but a sequence of rapidly rendered 2D images.

Edited June 1, 2013 by Ctrlaltwtf

[Slaythe]

I'm gonna say this again. I do not underestimate 3D. I just have a hard time believing their ingame engine ( especially unreal's) is capable of all this.

[BladeOfJustice7]

What if Ky's 6P in the trailer was his Dead Angle?

I don't think he was in block stun when he did it.

He definitely wasn't, just looked like a counter hit 6P.

Circ is right, if proactively done 6p can beat out a late starting fafnir, I've done it in AC.

[Digital Watches]

Motion blur effects are a thing that's easy to do with sampling, and freestyle is a good example of a way a post-processing step can draw clean-looking lines in a procedural way. Toon shading can have a really nice aesthetic and largely is going to depend on the shaders you're using and the way you make your color ramps. I don't have any reason to believe they couldn't do anything shown in the trailer in-engine. Taking the time to design the aesthetic well goes a long way, and technology is improving rapidly.

[bojack]

I really like the new look but what else will they do with this 3D engine? Different angles or close-ups when characters get launched or do specials? I love that sort of thing but maybe it would slow the action down too much for others.

[Star-Demon]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreal_Engine#Unreal_Engine_3

and

http://www.unrealengine.com/features/

For engine features.

[shinr]

If they will bring back Baiken, will they make her armless side flip like Spencer's cyber-arm from MvC3, or will they redesign her to be symmetrical? (new cyber-arm; no-hands-sword-in-the-mouth-and/or-feet etc.)

Edited June 2, 2013 by shinr

[hipikachu]

If they will bring back Baiken, will they make her armless side flip like Spencer's cyber-arm from MvC3, or will they redesign her to be symmetrical? (new cyber-arm; no-hands-sword-in-the-mouth-and/or-feet etc.)

I assume they're going to try to remain as faithful to the original design as possible, aside from possible little costume tidbit changes that characters like Sol and Ky have displayed so far. I think Anji might probably receive a weapon upgrade due to having an Outrage, but I don't think anyone else in the story has a weapon significant enough to undergo a huge design overhaul.

I hope my main gets a better slab of concrete. Or even appears in this game for all that matters.

[stickystaines]

Well the young ones cant stay young forever: What will May look like?