Digital Watches Posted December 16, 2013 Posted December 16, 2013 (edited) If I recall correctly, you can definitely special-cancel into wild throw as of at least +R, though I'm pretty sure you always could. Edited December 16, 2013 by Digital Watches
Circuitous Posted December 16, 2013 Posted December 16, 2013 Could also be ... - Anti-Air - Frame Advantage on Block - Big Chip Damage or Guard Meter builder - Just have a really fucking good hitbox and some combination of the above that lets you use it as oki - Combo Utility (launches, etc), maybe like 5K 2H Flame Pillar -> 5H Heat or something. No idea honestly. I've only seen it used like, twice in any videos so I can't even get a basic idea on its properties. It seems entirely too slow to be an anti-air (definitely seemed slower than 2H, but those videos are RIP status). Frame advantage/chip/combo fodder is possible, but... it's so slow. It seemed really damned slow. I wonder if FAB speaks any English?
Kaizen Posted December 17, 2013 Posted December 17, 2013 If I recall correctly, you can definitely special-cancel into wild throw as of at least +R, though I'm pretty sure you always could. Actually you can't. I don't know if he'd been able to do it in Slash or earlier, but in AC and +R he cannot.
DaiAndOh Posted December 17, 2013 Posted December 17, 2013 It seems entirely too slow to be an anti-air (definitely seemed slower than 2H, but those videos are RIP status). Frame advantage/chip/combo fodder is possible, but... it's so slow. It seemed really damned slow. I wonder if FAB speaks any English? Don't hurt to try. It worked for Lich and Ryo, and I'm going to try hitting up N-O, Fino, and/or HEVEN once the game drops. Remember, the Japanese were forced to take 12 or so years of english classes!
Digital Watches Posted December 17, 2013 Posted December 17, 2013 Actually you can't. I don't know if he'd been able to do it in Slash or earlier, but in AC and +R he cannot. Huh, guess not. That's why it's always good to check
TheRealBobMan Posted December 17, 2013 Posted December 17, 2013 Just one more thing to check at the next loketest. Also, now I wanna see Wild Throw > Dragon Install > Napalm Death confirms. Just because.
TekkamanArk Posted December 23, 2013 Posted December 23, 2013 Do we know if there will be more characters or not?
HoudiniJr100 Posted December 23, 2013 Posted December 23, 2013 nothing since I last checked the site.
king of heart Posted December 26, 2013 Posted December 26, 2013 (edited) https://twitter.com/gasyota006/status/416117087417794560/photo/1 Check the left side So Xrd is coming in Mars ? Edited December 26, 2013 by king of heart
pachincko Posted December 26, 2013 Posted December 26, 2013 https://twitter.com/gasyota006/status/416117087417794560/photo/1 Check the left side So Xrd is coming in Mars ? That's right. Same with the next door game "Dengeki Fighting Climax" in the same Sega board in the same month.
Layer Posted December 27, 2013 Posted December 27, 2013 Staying true to their Spring release. Really feeling like the current cast will be the only ones for now. Though I question whether I-No is really gonna be the final boss in Arcade mode again.
kosmos badgirl Posted December 27, 2013 Posted December 27, 2013 https://twitter.com/gasyota006/status/416117087417794560/photo/1 Check the left side So Xrd is coming in Mars ? Great find, so if they rush it, they can do 2 more locketest, maybe 4-6 new characters for the arcade release?.
Jocelot Posted December 27, 2013 Posted December 27, 2013 I'm guessing if the arcade release is in spring, the console release won't be too far away. Probably late summer just like P4A was I hope. Good news regardless, hears hoping we get some info and stuff coming in the new year.
Narroo Posted December 27, 2013 Posted December 27, 2013 Staying true to their Spring release. Really feeling like the current cast will be the only ones for now. Though I question whether I-No is really gonna be the final boss in Arcade mode again. I thought it was Bedman?
TheRealBobMan Posted December 27, 2013 Posted December 27, 2013 Great find, so if they rush it, they can do 2 more locketest, maybe 4-6 new characters for the arcade release?. With the release date being in March, assuming that's true, I'm now doubting there will be any more characters. They will probably have at least one more location test before launch, but at this point I think they're going to want to balance the characters they have and make sure everything works without game breaking bugs. A march release doesn't give them a lot of time, and a full character is a lot of content to add, unless they already had like 80% of the work done. It's possible, but I wouldn't get my hopes up, at least on more than one more character if they could manage that somehow. I don't know what the restrictions are for releasing to an arcade, but console submission needs to be like 6 weeks ahead of time to allow 1st party testing + manufacturing and distribution. As far as I know it's way easier to make changes to the arcade board, and since there's no distribution or other shit to deal with they're going to have more time. I just don't think we'll see something as complicated as a new character. Working with 3D models might be faster than their old way of doing things, but they still have to remake everything from scratch for the new engine. I'd love to see more, but I just can't expect it. What I would expect is for them to finalize the arcade launch, then begin immediate work to add a character by the time they have enough data to make their first major balance patch. They might put out a patch within a week of launch for bug fixing, and then again any time something major comes up, but you know they're going to want to make some more substantial changes after a few weeks. They'd probably have a character or two to add by then. Followed by another patch without characters, followed by a character addition patch, repeat times X times until they're ready for the console release, which will probably be a year after the arcade release. Or, ArcSys could be totally awesome and have a global console release sometime in the late summer or early fall of next year. But with BB:CP having just come out (not even the US SKU is out yet right?), I'd expect them to hold Xrd until late next year so that they wont cannibalize their own sales. As much as we have people that play games because they like them, some consumers just buy shit because it's out. Hell, SF4U is coming out spring or summer next year right? The Xrd console launch would have to compete with that too if they didn't wait... not so much with market share of "I play fighting game X vs fighting game Y", but with people only having so much money in their wallets. SF4 players might want to try Xrd, but wont have the money if they just upgraded to the newest version of SF, which they will feel is the mandatory choice. If Xrd comes out after that, the people that are getting bored with the X-teenth version of SF4 might be ready for GG.
Kurushii Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 I don't think it takes 6 weeks for digital arcade releases. It just has to be tested, then uploaded to the server to be distributed digitally to all the cabs. There won't be an arcade board just for Xrd, it'll be running on the same All.net cab as the other games. The only thing that physically gets distributed are the posters, and movelists/header for the cab.
redsilversnake Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 They will probably have at least one more location test before launch, but at this point I think they're going to want to balance the characters they have and make sure everything works without game breaking bugs. Honestly, I'd expect more characters over balance testing. ArcSys has plenty of precedent showing that they don't really care about the balance of the first iteration of whatever game they make. Hell, Ishiwatari is even on record as basically saying that he only really cares about preventing characters that absolutely dominate the game, and that he isn't really concerned about anything beyond that. A march release doesn't give them a lot of time, and a full character is a lot of content to add, unless they already had like 80% of the work done. You do realize that March is approximately three months away, right? Considering how much they got done just between the loketests, I wouldn't be surprised if we get more announcements than just the release date. Or, ArcSys could be totally awesome and have a global console release sometime in the late summer or early fall of next year. This will literally never happen unless they become as big as Capcom or Namco Bandai. Even though they established a partnership with Aksys and even formed their own US office, they've stated repeatedly that their primary focus is the Japanese market. The best you could hope for is Aksys pulling another Calamity Trigger, and considering how things have gone since that game's release, even that's probably stretching it. Also, a Summer console release when the arcade version is slated for Spring is just wishful thinking. Sometime in Fall or Winter is more likely. But with BB:CP having just come out (not even the US SKU is out yet right?), I'd expect them to hold Xrd until late next year so that they wont cannibalize their own sales. CP only just came out on PS3; it's been out in arcades for just over a year now. Until it gets a revision, they've made most of the money they can off that game, so they have no reason to believe they would compete with themselves.
TheRealBobMan Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 I don't want to assume anything, but I seriously doubt that they created those characters from the ground up in between loketests. They probably had the framework going for each of the next set of characters as they were doing the first test, and slowly worked things in. That could also happen now with the other characters being dropped in before the launch, but I don't want to get my hopes up. Three months is a long time, but shit needs to be coming together when you're that close to launch time. It's great that they wont lose 4-6 weeks of that time on external QA testing, manufacturing, and other bullshit that cuts into launch time for console games, which means they have substantially more time than I thought, but they still probably wont be able to add more than 1-2 characters if they really grind nonstop for that amount of time. Possibly one more if the work on one was nearly completed already, but I feel like it's extremely wishful thinking to assume there will be 3 more at launch time. I don't know first hand what fighting game development is like, but if you use the Skullgirls timetable as a frame of reference, I would assume it would take several months to make and implement one character. I really want to stress that I don't know how different it is for a fighting game launching in arcades, but by this point a console game would have to be in beta, doing internal testing for gold, and there would have to be no major changes to level or game play design. Then again, they'd be submitting a lot sooner, which wont be the case here. So yeah, ArcSys could have 10 more characters "almost done" right now, and they might even get to submit just a few days before the arcade launch which would give them nearly the whole 3 months. That'd be great, but I wont hold my breath. Especially when they'll probably add characters after it launches anyway. I was joking about the global console release in the summer. ArcSys, we're still waiting on US PS3 +R. Your other points were good and either were things I didn't know or hadn't considered. If they make most of their money off of JP arcades, they're probably hungry to launch something new by now. I was considering just the console launch timing of BB:CP vs Xrd and ignoring arcades as a source of revenue.
redsilversnake Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 I don't want to assume anything, but I seriously doubt that they created those characters from the ground up in between loketests. They probably had the framework going for each of the next set of characters as they were doing the first test, and slowly worked things in. That could also happen now with the other characters being dropped in before the launch, but I don't want to get my hopes up. It's true that it takes a good deal of time to make even just one character, but it's also true that we don't know how far along they are on any that are yet to be announced. Regardless, I was just pointing out that they're more likely to focus on fleshing out the roster than fine-tuning the character balance. I don't know first hand what fighting game development is like, but if you use the Skullgirls timetable as a frame of reference, I would assume it would take several months to make and implement one character. The method Xrd uses is very different from what was done with Skullgirls, though. I'm not knowledgeable enough about 3D animation to say for sure whether or not it's less time-consuming than hand-drawn animation, but from what I do know, it is easier to work with them once the base model is finished. So it is possible that the development time for Xrd's characters isn't as long as SG's. Your other points were good and either were things I didn't know or hadn't considered. If they make most of their money off of JP arcades, they're probably hungry to launch something new by now. I was considering just the console launch timing of BB:CP vs Xrd and ignoring arcades as a source of revenue. I didn't say that they made more money off of arcades, just that ASW has probably made enough money off the game over its lifespan, both in arcades and on PS3, that Xrd's release can't really have an effect. If they announced that, say, a revision of CP was coming out in that timespan, it might be time to worry, but for now, there's not much reason for concern.
Bloodcrave Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 march release? oh shit that's really soon
TheRealBobMan Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 I asked Mike via PM once and he said Skullgirls does that flattened model thing that most fighting games are starting to use. Judging by the camera rotation in Xrd, either they don't flatten their models, or they use some sort of amazing voodoo trick to make them look like sprites until they need to be full 3D. It's probably as far from amazing or voodoo when you figure it out, but it's astonishing that it can look so much like it used to, yet be fully 3D models when the camera spins like that mid-match. That said, they both use 3D models despite looking as good as hand drawn, so the dev time for something like a character should be similar between Skullgirls and Xrd. 3D models are be substantially more efficient to work with. Think of all of the frames of animation that need to exist for each character. Draw those by hand and have the character look consistent between all of them, vs keyframe pose a model and then refine the in-between frames. Hand drawing 20 frames of animation for one attack probably takes longer than tweaking around in the graph editor in Maya after making your initial X number of poses for the same attack. Multiply by the tens of thousands, or however many frames of animation per character. It's still long and tedious work, but faster than hand drawing all of those frames (and I think some of that tweening grunt work can be outsourced too... I think that was mentioned in the Skullgirls indiegogo campaign). Also, alternate color pallets would take some work when hand drawn. You can't just use the magic wand tool in photoshop since that'll look relatively shitty, and you would have to edit up the colors on a bunch of individual images. With 3D you really only have to change one texture file times X number of recolors that you want. BUT YEAH XRD IN MARCH WOOOOOOOOOOO Or, that could be wrong and we could get 5+ more characters by the time the game launches. I'd be fine with that too. : )
Kyosuke Kagami Posted December 29, 2013 Posted December 29, 2013 Just add Anji, Testy and Baiken. That'd be enough and they'd feature all the "living" characters from the first GG.
LeonD Posted December 29, 2013 Posted December 29, 2013 Just add Anji, Testy and Baiken. That'd be enough and they'd feature all the "living" characters from the first GG. DA FUQ? WAT DID YOU JUST SAY?
The DMK Posted December 29, 2013 Posted December 29, 2013 (edited) Hey Destin. I remember in some thread quite some time ago that you said if Dizzy was no longer in the game you'd quit GG. I'm guessing that is no longer true? Or you never said that and I am wrong? I think the crests/sigils/whatever are great for Ky. I need to look at vids again, but the beams seem pretty big and look like they last for a while. I don't know, but they look like the kind of attack that would have decent chip damage (complete conjecture here). There are still some simple things I would like to see improved in Ky. If Greed Sever had a faster start-up, better recovery or less proration that would be great. All three wouldn't be bad. IMO GS is too telegraphed, easy to punish and doesn't get enough of a good reward. You get a combo off of it, which is great, but it is hard to land and the damage is clearly lower than a standard combo. Last I mentioned this (in reference to ACR?) ehuangsan suggested that reducing Ky's proration on 2K and 2P would be enough to make him notably better (instead of improving GS), and he is probably right. Either way, I wouldn't mind Greed Saber being a better overhead. As it stands, it is only something you can throw out every now and then. I don't want to say it is a gimmick, but it is definitely risky. A better Greed Sever could be an overhead with some real mix-up potential. Ky's design makes him by default a halfway decent character (unfortunately I didn't play too much / when his fireballs were ridiculous), but with a little bit of adjustment he could be great or at the very least good. He feels like a good character (mid-tier) who is neutered into being mediocre (mid-low/lower). Out of 5 iterations of XX he is low to mid-low tier in 4 of them (maybe mid?). I mean, I can't complain that he was top for a game, but y'know, That was two games ago. I'm sure many others feel the same about their characters, but I feel like making Ky a consistently decent character would be pretty simple. He has good pokes, anti-airs, and versatile and useful specials. The ingredients are there. As for the whole characters issue, I can't really say whether any will be added in before a console release, but I'm sure it wouldn't be long after. Forgetting the whole business side of it, this is actually Daisuke working on it. It is his brainchild, and I am sure he has big plans, what with the story being all post GG2 and all. Edited December 30, 2013 by The DMK
Destin Posted December 30, 2013 Posted December 30, 2013 Hey Destin. I remember in some thread quite some time ago that you said if Dizzy was no longer in the game you'd quit GG. I'm guessing that is no longer true? Or you never said that and I am wrong? I have no doubt that dizzy will be in this game eventually. This is the GG followup I always wanted, I think this game looks significantly better than Slash, WAY better than AC and AC+R. I am not only impressed they are going in this direction, but GREATLY surprised. The changes to the characters are ambitious, creative, intelligent, and open more doors for creativity and action rather than reduce options. Everything seems to be adding accessible complexity. When I look at SF4 and all the bad mechanics, intentions, failures, and short-sighted changes, I walk away knowing that I could have made something better. With this game, I am sure I would have no chance of ever making something better. You are probably right that I did say that and mean it, but if I didn't support this game I would be doing all of fighting games a disservice. I may not have time to play this game like I once did, but I will certainly be taking names from a bunch of new kids who have no idea what's really going on.
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