Xrd and growing the GG community

[Destin]

I have played them all at some point at a semi competitive level. Old fighting games might have that level of entry issue you are talking about, but newer ones aren't that bad...

[Ventus Tatshima]

I'm very open to GG XRD even though i'm not that good at fighting games GG and BB are my most favorable FG's. Xrd would do wonders for the GG community but at the same time certain individuals will ruin it for the majority just like the said individuals are ruining BB for novices and casual players like me. No matter what we'll always have those elitist assholes who'll say "Guilty Gear is not a scrub game like P4A" But you know what? Fuck them. we're supposed help newcomers get accustomed to the game and increase our community along with BB/GG or whatever you prefer as whole

[Ryu334]

Coming from someone who mainly plays capcom games an is just getting into ARC style fighters well I did play BB for awhile but stopped around CS2 anyways I don't wanna go off topic, but I never really understood why most acr guys just play bb and gg or bb/gg/p4a like how a lot of the sf4 players play the other 2 capcom games I'm not saying all of them but there's a good amount of them. Now as for GG I really enjoy it I brought GGXXAC+ once it was released even though I just really started to play it I think its pretty tough but fun hopefully people won't really complain about how GGXrd is once more info is shared.

[Sophisticat]

I have played them all at some point at a semi competitive level. Old fighting games might have that level of entry issue you are talking about, but newer ones aren't that bad...

You'd be surprised. I know some guys IRL who quit over the execution of quarter circles and DPs. They just couldn't get past it. Execution alone is a huge barrier to newbies trying out these games, regardless of how easy we might find it.

[Ventus Tatshima]

yeah that is very true

[Rhannmah]

but I never really understood why most acr guys just play bb and gg or bb/gg/p4a

Can't speak for everyone, but I just find Capcom games very lacking in the movement options. Everything feels so sluggish. And then you've got Marvel vs Capcom which is just too much. Guilty Gear and co. is a really good middle ground.

[Ventus Tatshima]

Street fighter is just so... awkward for me

[reaVer]

ye...like you need a degree in rocket science to be decent at gg

You need to learn to find the simplicity in the complexity, just like an other decent game. Almost everything you learn in GG can be applied to other games and vice versa. You for example have momentum in dota and starcraft, same way as you have zoning in both of those games too. The terminology can be different, but if you look at high level games there, you will notice it's what a lot of players are constantly doing. And for those games it's no different, you will need to put in your practice time, you will need to take advice and even after years of playing those games can be even less rewarding than GG(especially dota falls into this category -> *THANKS FOR FEED TEAM*).

Fighting games aren't even close to other videogames genre in terms of "time spent" to be decent

Maybe your definition of decent is different than mine. I would consider myself somewhat decent and it means I'm able to get a top16/top8 ranking at non japanese major tournaments. You however, I've never even seen playing the game. And that makes your statement rather bold.

[Digital Watches]

Man, it's a good thing reaver's here to make sure no one who isn't "decent" says anything about being "decent."

[BladeOfJustice7]

Can't speak for everyone, but I just find Capcom games very lacking in the movement options. Everything feels so sluggish. And then you've got Marvel vs Capcom which is just too much. Guilty Gear and co. is a really good middle ground.

This is my reasoning justification as well. Just not my cup of tea.

[Diar]

Can't speak for everyone, but I just find Capcom games very lacking in the movement options. Everything feels so sluggish. And then you've got Marvel vs Capcom which is just too much. Guilty Gear and co. is a really good middle ground.

You should really consider on trying out vampire savior for great movement options. The game feels very solid and fluid in the movement department.

[Rhannmah]

You should really consider on trying out vampire savior for great movement options. The game feels very solid and fluid in the movement department.

Oh, I've known about vsav forever, i just have my hands full with GG and BB, lol

[reaVer]

Man, it's a good thing reaver's here to make sure no one who isn't "decent" says anything about being "decent."

Just light the bat signal when you need me again! WHOOOOOSH!!

[Gramas]

You need to learn to find the simplicity in the complexity, just like an other decent game. Almost everything you learn in GG can be applied to other games and vice versa. You for example have momentum in dota and starcraft, same way as you have zoning in both of those games too. The terminology can be different, but if you look at high level games there, you will notice it's what a lot of players are constantly doing. And for those games it's no different, you will need to put in your practice time, you will need to take advice and even after years of playing those games can be even less rewarding than GG(especially dota falls into this category -> *THANKS FOR FEED TEAM*).

Maybe your definition of decent is different than mine. I would consider myself somewhat decent and it means I'm able to get a top16/top8 ranking at non japanese major tournaments. You however, I've never even seen playing the game. And that makes your statement rather bold.

To me being decent in a fighting game means master your character(combos, options in neutral, mixup) and have a good neutral game(spacing-reaction-good use of your tools)

While the first part should be pretty easy the second part is harder -learn how to play the game for real-

but saying that you need year(S) to be decent (aka beating or 50-50 the majority of EU-USA players in an arcsystemworks game)is nosense..especialy if you already have some fighting games basic

I played counter-strike 1.6 for 6 years and took me wayyy much more time to being decent at it(being able to beat almost every team in europe except the top1-2-3 of some strong countries)compared to the arcsys games

[Fenrir Werwolf]

You need to learn to find the simplicity in the complexity, just like an other decent game. Almost everything you learn in GG can be applied to other games and vice versa. You for example have momentum in dota and starcraft, same way as you have zoning in both of those games too. The terminology can be different, but if you look at high level games there, you will notice it's what a lot of players are constantly doing. And for those games it's no different, you will need to put in your practice time, you will need to take advice and even after years of playing those games can be even less rewarding than GG(especially dota falls into this category -> *THANKS FOR FEED TEAM*).

Maybe your definition of decent is different than mine. I would consider myself somewhat decent and it means I'm able to get a top16/top8 ranking at non japanese major tournaments. You however, I've never even seen playing the game. And that makes your statement rather bold.

In game like stracraft you need at least 10 hours for day of training/playtime to be really competitive

I don't think the same applies to FG :X

[Pete278]

The reason you know top SC2 players and LoL players and whatever eSport of your choice put in a ton of hours is because they get paid for it. Any FG player that plays for a living will put in as many hours. Or do you think ChrisG just says 'whatever, let's just leave this next major up to luck, don't really need food on my table'?

[Ventus Tatshima]

Isn't chris G a professional UMvC3?

[STenSatsu]

I have a question for the lot of you.

There's an arcade about 15 minutes from where I live, smack dab in the middle of Los Angeles. You'd expect anywhere in SoCal to have a thriving existent GG scene, but not here.

I used to go to Arcade Infinity and Family Fun Arcade near the ends of their lifespans, and went from being "some Sol scrub" to "that guy who uses that cheap ass Sol how brainless what a scrub nobody should ever lose to this guy" yet almost everyone does.

The problem is that, going into this now growing area, Japan Arcade, most players are on Melty Blood, SF4, Third Strike, and Blazblue. Most of them are afraid to jump on the GG machine when I play arcade mode because I actually know how to avoid Megalomania, as if it's the most impressive thing in the world. I tell them that they should play GG, because it's great. I jokingly talk smack about Melty amongst the regulars, but everybody knows that I actually respect it. But everybody there already has the mindset that GG is too hard. I explain that maybe it's a little more complex, but that there are characters who are relatively easy: Pot, Faust, May, Jam, and to a lesser extent, Sol, Ky, and Kliff whenever +R drops, since we're planning on getting a board for it sometime down the line.

How do I go about fixing this? These are players who are already dead decided that GG is too difficult, who quit after I go easy on them, and sometimes let them win. Sometimes I win by doing the SAME MOVE over and over, expecting them to try different things to punish them. I never outright tell them how to beat things, but mention that I do things that are unsafe, and that they should be punishing them. If players ask, I'm willing to help, but nobody seems to be willing to push forward their questions. I want to watch this community grow, but I don't want to hold people's hands through it: that doesn't really help anybody in the long run.

I once beat a Chipp player by doing NOTHING but Bandit Revolver, which is fairly unsafe and completely unsafe to throws. The point was obviously to try to make him learn how to deal with it, yet he just kept getting hit by it. No 6P, no throw, no nothing. Should I really just outright tell people "do this", or hope that they bother trying to learn?

First thing you have to figure out is if the guys that are playing those other fighters are playing them semi-seriously or are they just guys coming in and mashing it out for fun? If the latter, there's nothing you can really do about it unless they somehow get interested in fighting games on a more serious level anyway so I wouldn't worry about it. Otherwise, start with the BB and MB players since the leap isn't quite as large. (Especially BB.)

Ask them why they think GG is too hard. Once you know why they think it is hard, you can break down that part of it. And yes, you should outright tell people 'do this', especially on basic things. People aren't going to know that in GG throws are 0 or 1 frame or whatever and that 6p is often a character's good anti-air. You can also make comparison of the mechanics between games. (Fairly obvious with things like BB but stuff like EX GUard is like IB I think.) You don't need to worry about going into stuff like ID, JI, or Slashback for now.

[Pete278]

Isn't chris G a professional UMvC3?

ChrisG is practically professional everything after his performance as of late, but yes, that's why I chose him. He's one of the few FGC top players who actually plays for a living.

[MacArthur Blunts]

I am wholly confident that the older players will help newer ones in the GG scene. This new game and +R will prove that. Players like Jais, Kyle, Slymoogle, or anyone who knew of Tenkai can attest to that. I may even move off of this cold mountain to get back into the scene when it drops. (IM STILL ALIVE EVERYONE!) I have great hopes that we will usher in a new era of amazing friendships, knowledge sharing and packed venues.

[Ryu334]

haha I was actually trying to say that why some people don't just play all 3 or at least 2 of the arc fighters I know I don't go on dustloop enough but on other forums or comments its usually bb or gg not both or I hear trash talk between the 2 I'm not trying to start something or bring up old things but I just thought it would be abit better to be just 1 big group kinda like the capcom players.

[Amadeus46Art]

I may even move off of this cold mountain to get back into the scene when it drops. (IM STILL ALIVE EVERYONE!)

:D come back to us Mac we miss you ;-;

[Dandy J]

haha I was actually trying to say that why some people don't just play all 3 or at least 2 of the arc fighters I know I don't go on dustloop enough but on other forums or comments its usually bb or gg not both or I hear trash talk between the 2 I'm not trying to start something or bring up old things but I just thought it would be abit better to be just 1 big group kinda like the capcom players.

part of the reason they are one big group and get along is that they arent as passionate about their specific games. real rap. its more of a social thing. a lot of mvc3/sf4 players dont even really like the game they play.

[Celerity]

To me being decent in a fighting game means master your character(combos, options in neutral, mixup) and have a good neutral game(spacing-reaction-good use of your tools)

While the first part should be pretty easy the second part is harder -learn how to play the game for real-

but saying that you need year(S) to be decent (aka beating or 50-50 the majority of EU-USA players in an arcsystemworks game)is nosense..especialy if you already have some fighting games basic

I played counter-strike 1.6 for 6 years and took me wayyy much more time to being decent at it(being able to beat almost every team in europe except the top1-2-3 of some strong countries)compared to the arcsys games

This argument in general is pretty silly, because "decent" can mean vastly different things to different people. I think most people consider themselves only decent, because they're always looking up. As reaver mentioned, his definition of decent is about where he's at, while a casual player might think another way, and a player in Japan would have an even stricter definition. It's meaningless to argue about who's decent and who isn't.

IMO fighting games have a lot more complexity than games like DotA, Starcraft, and Counterstrike. The skill ceiling is basically unattainable due to the number of decisions you need to make in a match. The reason why it seems like eSports games are more difficult is because there are a lot more people playing competitively, for a lot more money, so it takes a longer time to become competitive compared to fighting games. However, I think if the same amount of money and players existed in both scenes, it would become clear that fighting games have a higher potential for skill.

Disclaimer: I come from a semi-professional DotA/FPS background, and I'm comparitively terrible at fighting games, so it's possible that I overrate their difficulty at the top level.

[Dandy J]

IMO fighting games have a lot more complexity than games like DotA, Starcraft, and Counterstrike.

Well I only have a rudimentary understanding of those games for the most part, but for at least sc I'd have to disagree? Seems like there's so many important things to learn AND the fact that you always HAVE to be doing something or you're losing. Counter-strike and dota I can see. A lot of the complexity (i.e. amount of crap to learn) of mobas seem to come from the items, which a lot of do similar things in different ways, and it's only critical to know about specific ones (this is not that far off from some fighting games). CS I can agree with, the game doesn't have much fat to cut through, it's mostly about learning the maps, positioning, where to look and when, when to advance and when to stay put, and from there it's just playing a lot and getting better at aim. The thing about fighting games, particularly gg, is yeah there's all these setups to learn and very specific things, but you can also simplify things down to a few base options and be very successful. For example, you can learn 5 different 50/50 mixups from a wakeup situation, which will always help to know, or you can use the one you like the best and just run that every time. Yes, it's better to vary what you do to make it harder to defend against, but theoretically you can do just as well with that one 50/50. I think the difficulty in fighting games is just getting used to hitting the right buttons at the right time, for lack of a better description. Anti-airing on reaction properly, timing mixups properly, etc. and just execution in general.