Xrd and growing the GG community

[Chrome Homura]

Even though it was forgotten pages ago, I'll restate that the point of this isn't about why people might be afraid or deterred from guilty gear. It's about how to bring them in, and the mindset that will aid that path. I haven't posted much since my initial words, but i've been keeping an eye on all the GG threads, and a lot of my worries are being confirmed by the general attitude and discussions amongst a lot of people. I still think a lot of good things can happen for the GG player base as a whole, and I'll be doing my own part to help with that. But it's an uphill battle against a lot of the mouths that love to hear themselves flap online and off.

Speaking as one of the very people you hint at, I am just as concerned. Much as I love GG, I am an individual severely lacking in charisma/wit, and feel deeply embarrassed that what remains of the scene has the reputation it does. I wish I could support my favorite game more constructively, but am at a loss in terms of what exactly I could possibly do to help.

[Silmerion]

So, if we're being honest with ourselves here, the GG community is full of awkward people. We all know this.

I'm in a fraternity that tends to attract such people. One of the ways we recruit introverts is to make sure that whatever event we're holding, there are multiple things to do. Holding an ice cream social? Bring board games and see a movie after the event. That sort of thing. The reason we do this is that awkward folks, when they feel cornered (perhaps they just lost really badly in GG, a game they've only just picked up, and they're embarrassed) will look for an escape plan. If there aren't multiple things to do, some of which are pretty casual and easy to get into, then that escape route is going to be "leave and don't come back." They need a reason to stay.

I think small gatherings have this issue where they're all about the game. Plus, everyone who's there probably knows everyone else (except for the newbie), so the world feels closed to them. It sounds kind of stupid, I know, but gatherings like these could benefit from simple icebreakers and things that let the new person relax in the company of strangers who are all better than them. Did New Person X just lose twenty times in a row? Invite them to take a break, grab a beer, and join a game of Cards Against Humanity or something.

Again, I know this sounds pretty silly, but people are going to come to gatherings if they feel like they can relax, have fun, and socialize.

[Raurik]

I think small gatherings have this issue where they're all about the game. Plus, everyone who's there probably knows everyone else (except for the newbie), so the world feels closed to them. It sounds kind of stupid, I know, but gatherings like these could benefit from simple icebreakers and things that let the new person relax in the company of strangers who are all better than them. Did New Person X just lose twenty times in a row? Invite them to take a break, grab a beer, and join a game of Cards Against Humanity or something.

Again, I know this sounds pretty silly, but people are going to come to gatherings if they feel like they can relax, have fun, and socialize.

This is actually an amazing point. I'm personally one of those people that will lose millions of times and it just makes me hungrier. On the other hand though, pretty much EVERYONE else I know that likes fighting games generally can't lose too many times before looking for something else to do. Having something less competitive around that's more focused on socializing would definitely help quell the notion that FGC related events are only super aggressive scenes.

One of the other issues that I've personally run into with my local scene is that nobody wanted to see a new face. I showed up, stick in hand, eager to test my might against some people in local matches. I sat down to SF4. The competition was really wonky. There were two guys there that would wreak house, and the rest of them were still learning some basics so no middle ground. When I sat down, the two guys had left and so I was playing against the rest and, in turn, didn't lose a set/my seat. I played for a bit, but knew they weren't really up to beating me yet so I tried to kindly made an effort and gave up my win streak to let more people play. I came to make friends, y'know? As soon as I was up nobody gave one shit that night. Tried to talk about the game, tech, recent event streams, etc. Nobody wanted anything to do with me. They were too busy chasing something else. So I called next again after a while when one of the other two guys came back over in hopes to at least learn something first hand from them. After that match he left so I did too.

Funniest part of that night was when their Ryu player versed me. They kept making comments about him being like Daigo or something. I also played Ryu and assumed he could play because of these remarks. He could not. Made for quite an awkward blowup. Again, just really weird.

I've been back a few times since because I was desperate to play against someone that wasn't online, but each experience seemed worse. They're almost exclusively an AE/UMVC3 house and after my first visit I got more into other games that, even when mentioned as a "You know what fg I loved playing back in the day? CVS2." were scoffed at for any reason imaginable. I honestly wouldn't go back. It's really hard to go back to an event (especially a weekly one) where no one even makes the slightest effort to say "hi" back.

Bottom line, beyond just being a more welcoming event, the event-goers need to make an effort to invite the new blood into the fold. Wait, isn't that what the OP said? Well, here. Use my experience of looking into a local scene as what NOT to do.

[The Katz]

Not gonna lie: I got tricked into playing Guilty Gear when I thought I was going to a Gran Turismo meet. :V

This is funny to me because I was tricked into playing drunk pokemon cards when I thought it was a Guilty Gear meet!

[Fenrir Werwolf]

So, if we're being honest with ourselves here, the GG community is full of awkward people. We all know this.

Well, it's the same for the FG general community

[Pichy]

It's the same for most videogame communities? You know why? Because they're full of nerds. Take it as a challenge to overcome, and go play some videogames.

[Rhiya]

I think an issue (everywhere, really, not just here) is that communities forget you have to start off at low-level play and work your way up. Lots of times, when someone is new to a fighter, I'll see people tell them to go learn their character's optimal combos, or to make sure you can do this one critical move (be it an important TK, an FRC, or something else), or go learn some framedata. But really, that's not where anyone starts. If we're playing naturally, we start off with cobbled-together combos that half-work and weak strategies; these will evolve over time, and with guidance, that low-level play can blossom into mid-level play, and maybe even high-level play. I don't see an acknowledgement of this, though. I feel like people want to put the cart before the horse, and shove people right into high-level play even if they're nowhere near ready -- and that makes things look really daunting, and turns people away who could really enjoy the game.

Let's assume (for GG) that low-level play is everything past button mashing up to mid-level play, and mid-level play is playing sort of intelligently and knowing your character's important FRCs. (I might be completely off on this interpretation -- I'm just going off impressions.) I feel like GG seems hard just because there's such a defined barrier (FRCs) between low-level and mid-level play. When you add in how low-level play is often made to seem unacceptable -- I always got the impression that some FRCs were so critical for their characters that you might as well not play that character if you couldn't do it, that, for that character, you had to start at mid-level play or that was that -- you're looking at an instant turnoff for the vast majority of people, even if they want to try your game. Add in the exec requirements on FRCs, and GG really just looks like a tough game to get into. If you can make it seem like starting off at low-level play is okay, though -- that you don't need to learn everything right now, but rather, it is okay to learn as you go and as you need it -- you'll go a long way to keep new players from getting scared off.

The bottom line of my post is this, I guess:

A) Communities should understand that low-level play exists, and that people start at low-level play.

B) Communities shouldn't make new players feel like starting at low-level play is a bad thing.

C) Communities should nurture new players from low-level to mid-level to high-level play. Don't coldly throw a bunch of information at new players and expect them to learn high-level play on their own from scratch; let new players start where they may, then push them forward at a pace they find comfortable. This means that your new players will be doing suboptimal things for a while, but that's just how it works -- people won't be getting first place at majors on their first day playing any game. Let them work their way up at the best speed they can. That best speed will be a lot faster with a supportive community's help.

[Vashimus]

Max addressed this and going about it the right way.

[Star-Demon]

I really like the icebreaker idea. Personally, I'm all business when I go places. I want to play the game so much I'd prefer just jumping into the TV and ignoring all the noise in the arcade and people and get myself some credibility by performing well.

I don't have time for anything else. I have to get better somehow. People go to play the game and accomplish things, I think.

That's just me, though.

[Mugen Tux]

I just want to put in my two cents real quick.

Reading through this thread, I feel like a whole new door is being opened.

Knowing that there are people in the community that care about welcoming new blood is great, and it makes me happy that I play these games.

Looking back on my experience with FG after this, I realize I've made some idiotic choices, like bashing on other games that I haven't even played, simply because I liked BB and whatnot. I think I might have done that because ArcSys is pretty obscure in my area, and I guess I wanted to herd people here.

I play Smash with a few friends from high school(should probably mention that I'm a minor, so I'm pretty limited as far as going to areas where the scene's at), and while we have a good time playing it, I'm pretty bad compared to them. Sometimes we playfully bash eachother, but sometimes it gets out of hand on both ends, and I just end up feeling angry, usually stopping after a bit.

Now that I look at the conversations, I made a lot of jabs at the game itself, and focused far too much on the flaws of the game, rather than seeing the good. I hated on the game because it was more of a party game, not a competitive-style fighter, and that was pretty bad. At the same time, I bashed a bit on Marvel, a bit more mildly, but still bashing, because of the relative lack of balancing I perceived in it.

Now this thread is showing me a lot of things I've been messing up.

I'm starting to clean up my attitude about these things, and life in general, and so far it's having a really positive effect. I'm trying to be more open with other games, and not deifying ArcSys to my friends because of its "non-scrubbiness" system, and I'm trying to be less angry when I play.

tl;dr: this thread helps me realize my mistakes, and it makes me feel good inside.

Thanks.

[Klaige]

tl;dr: this thread helps me realize my mistakes, and it makes me feel good inside.

Thanks.

You're welcome.

These are the kind of things I'm hoping for with this kind of thread. I'm not on a soapbox here hoping to change an entire culture and re-route an entire community. I can offer up all the advice and thoughts I like, and at the end of the day it doesn't really matter. Why should anyone listen to me? I'm just another guy who plays games and has entered some tournaments over the years, I'm not special, nor am I trying to do anything special. But if even one or two people get the jist of what I'm tossing out as an idea and use it to consider their own views and actions when it comes to games and new players, then it was worth my time to type out these posts 10 fold.

I tend to have long wordy posts on these sorts of things because I think it's important, but what I think doesn't really matter if no one else sees it as the right direction. The posts may be wordy, but the point i'm trying to make is really simple, and I think people are starting to get that.

[j1n[kr]]

Klaige Kliage you doing it wrong:

WANT TO INTRODUCE GG TO PEOPLE? VERY EASY. FOLLOW STEPS.

- HAVE PEOPLE PLAY SF x TEKKEN (or a Tekken in general, or if you're feeling really saucy Injustice/MK9/DoA5)

- WHEN THEY GROAN AND COMPLAIN TO PLAY SOMETHING ELSE, PULL OUT GUILTY GEAR. BAM.

WANT TO BUILD COMMUNITY AROUND GG? VERY EASY. FOLLOW STEPS

- HAVE BAD/POOR TOP PLAYER BUT POPULAR STREAM THE GAME (IE - Maybe get Nerdjosh to stream OOHHHH SNAP Don't hurt me JJ I KID I KID)

- RAISE BIG PRIZE MONEY SPONSORS COSPLAYERS BIG AMERICAN TITTIES LT3 JESSICA NIGRI CONTINUE STREAMING

- CREATE TERRIBLE MEMES AND GHETTO SCENE ATTITUDE (Don't Let Spirit Juice do this TROLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL)

- TWEET THE SHIT OUT OF IT. or that new thing VINE. I think Klaige should wear google glass to every tournament. It's the future, use technology

WANT TO GET HUGE PLAYER BASE? VERY EASY FOLLOW STEPS

- RELEASE GAME FREE WITH ONLY SOL AND KY

- MICROTRANSACTION THE SHIT OUT OF THAT AND MAKE VIRAL REQUESTS

[Circuitous]

Just because j1n's post is funny doesn't mean you can use it to post meaningless off-topic bullshit, people.

[Essay]

I'm kind of amazed at how many players of other fighting games in my city are looking at our group playing hardcore GG and wanting to be a part of it, to the point where I'm starting to consider overseeing GG meetups specifically for newer players to help them break in.

It's been kind of a weird dynamic until now around here with myself and the other main players kind of losing ourselves in competition with each other for hours at a time, while some of the more motivated newer players cut in occasionally to take their lickings to glean us for bits of knowledge. However, at the end of the day, the up-and-comers all main other games—usually at the same gathers—and it can be difficult to get them to stay on the GG setups with each other when the dedicated GG players are hovering.

So, yeah, my hunch: keep these newer players at it by facilitating their own dedicated beginner/intermediate GG meetups, maybe something like the way that Cross Counter Afterhours seems to be giving lots of screen time to their newer players, with a more advanced player or two looking on and contributing. I mean, it's not how I learned the game or anything, but I'm wondering if it might help our long-term retention rate.

Anyone have experience with such an approach and reflections to contribute?

[Rhannmah]

One thing i've been doing without necessarily talking about it is to get off the station when someone who is more of a match for my opponent comes along. Not many people can actually take matches off of me, so it can be pretty frustrating. It's better when people fight people of their own skill level, so if the "dedicated GG players" always hog the stations, they will make it hard for newcomers to get interested in the game if they just body them ad nauseam.

[Oiboi]

Nah, it's better to fight people better than you, for a few reasons:

1: They improve

2: Lots of good players are also good teachers, and generally cool dudes that don't mind just shooting the shit while doing some casuals

3: It builds a repertoire between the best and the worst of the community, so that everyone gets to know each other better

I'll admit I only remember the characters people play and their aliases half the time. Remembering their real names as well always proves a challenge to me, but I wouldn't say that's for lack of trying. Rather, I tend to try and get at least acquainted with everyone at a tourney, because I'm there to have fun and play a game I love. Lots of us here in norcal play more than just GG, but I'd still say GG is a big staple game for all of us in the area. In fact I don't even go to the BB tournaments, so I don't know any of the BB only players. Hopefully I will be able to change that when the next BB comes out.

Really, tournaments are more than just tournaments to me. Their a chance to meet new people, hang with old friends, improve my game, and generally socialize. Every time Digital Watches makes it in town for a tournament, the hype meter hits max, and everyone has a fun time. And I think that's the core ideal that should be recognized for all scenes, that it's just a game, even if we play it competitively; We should still understand what we want out of the game. If you play the game to have fun, you never lose at a tournament. If you only play to win money, you might 'win', but what kind of relationship do you build with other players there? If all you want is money, it's going to be a business relationship, essentially; worse, some players who play only for money build up negative interactions in the scene. I wouldn't name any names, of course, but I've played on both sides of the country in multiple scenes-- I've met my fair share of moneygrabbers, and even known of a few people who'd try to rig or otherwise disrupt a tournament in their favor. These people are surely the minority, but they can still sour a scene badly, because it quickly becomes a cutthroat scene where you don't know who you can trust rather than a scene that helps each other to grow, both as players and as people.

These entire forums are built on the ideal that we can share our tips and tricks in hopes of becoming even better players. I've personally filled out nearly every thread in the zappa matchup forums with as much pertinent information as I can, just so I can see more and better Zappa players (And I must say, I have not been dissappointed when I do meet another zappa player). If we don't keep up a friendly relationship with each other, or find some way to minimalize the damage of moneygrabbers and assholes who would do the community harm, then the entire community suddenly becomes at risk of falling apart. The only way to draw in more players is to genuinely be good people and keep a healthy, safe community.

Another thing to mention is age gaps. A lot of new players may be in the teenager years, while a lot of us are now in mid twenties to early 30's (I'm sure there's plenty of variation depending on region, but this has generally been my observations). This means that for those new players, we need to provide a safe place where parents can be certain the kids don't get harmed in some manner. Does this mean you might need to install certain rules for your venue/tournament? Maybe, but I think that should be a region thing, decided by it's own community on whether that is necessary or not. Regardless, a gentlemen's code has always existed in arcades and tourneys and meetups; nothing that effects the gameplay (beyond don't be an annoying scrub, I guess) but still exists to keep people from doing something unsavory or socially unacceptable. The only time I feel something should be done officially and by the community at large is bans to those who commit real crimes, such as assault or threats and the like (I would also say rigging a tournament would be grounds for a ban, as that is tantamount to theft). And, obviously, in these instances it would be wise to involve some sort of legal action (and obviously as a person-to-person thing, i.e. pressing assault charges).

We all come from greatly varying walks of life, and I think that makes us all richer for it. I've met people who traveled across the world to fight and prove their worth, people who come from different classes, different backgrounds, possessing different personalities. We could do so much, but we'd have to do it together, and I think GG has potentially the strongest community of all the games. Maybe it's not the biggest, and maybe it's got it's faults, but we're committed, and I think that counts for a lot.

[HeatEXTEND]

;1512539']

- WHEN THEY GROAN AND COMPLAIN, PULL OUT GUILTY GEAR.

I think you just distilled GG's essence lol

[Zero Reputation]

Growing the Guilty Gear community is not possible. It will never be as relevant as the fanboy games or SF in this day and age in America. The characters are unrelatable on any kind of level the the mass public. The game's style automatically alienates a large group of people, because of this there is a smaller pool to pull from, which means a small competitive scene.

Think about the Top 4 games at EVO in # of participants. SF was #1 but look at the rest

2.) Marvel, a fanboy dream game that pits tons of different super heroes and non-fighting game characters together for fighting.

3.) Smash, a fanboy game designed to have all of Nintendo's big franchises under one title fighting it out.

4.) Injustice, see Marvel.

Why do you think these games are popular? It has nothing to do with how good or bad they are, it has to do with the fact that they appeal to a boarder audience give the fact they pull from multiple fanbases.

It will always be this way and it will never change in America so get used to it. Only non-fanboy games that will be big are SF and MK because of their legacy, all other fighters are doomed in America and the majority of the world to lack support because they lack universal appeal.

[Klaige]

Growing the Guilty Gear community is not possible. It will never be as relevant as the fanboy games or SF in this day and age in America. The characters are unrelatable on any kind of level the the mass public. The game's style automatically alienates a large group of people, because of this there is a smaller pool to pull from, which means a small competitive scene.

Think about the Top 4 games at EVO in # of participants. SF was #1 but look at the rest

2.) Marvel, a fanboy dream game that pits tons of different super heroes and non-fighting game characters together for fighting.

3.) Smash, a fanboy game designed to have all of Nintendo's big franchises under one title fighting it out.

4.) Injustice, see Marvel.

Why do you think these games are popular? It has nothing to do with how good or bad they are, it has to do with the fact that they appeal to a boarder audience give the fact they pull from multiple fanbases.

It will always be this way and it will never change in America so get used to it. Only non-fanboy games that will be big are SF and MK because of their legacy, all other fighters are doomed in America and the majority of the world to lack support because they lack universal appeal.

Who said about needing or trying to be as big as Marvel?

Guilty Gear has never been the biggest nor most popular game in the states, no one expects that out of it. This isn't about becoming the biggest or most notable game in the scene, it's about getting new players interested and adding some new blood to the scene who want to enjoy the game as much as we do, or who want to learn something different.

You say growing this community is not possible? I can tell you right now you are wrong. Since the initial XRD announcement, and since I started doing IAD-TV I've already lost track of how many people have emailed, messaged, and gotten ahold of me asking questions about GG or telling me that they are really enjoying learning the game. There are new players popping up all around, and that's a great thing.

With your nonstop "fanboy" comments this comes off as a really shitty attitude on your part and is exactly the kind of thing I want to avoid. This isn't about GG vs other games, people can play whatever they want, and they should. Games are about having fun, even competitive ones, so when you chide other players about liking their "fanboy" games the only one who sounds like a fanboy is you, and it just makes you sound whiney and childish.

If you are so certain that GG can't grow and that it's "doomed" as a fighting game then why are you here posting this? Shouldn't you either be switching to one of the "not doomed" games or quitting fighters entirely then? (See how silly and douchey this sort of hyperbole sounds?)

The problems i highlighted in this thread have nothing to do with game popularity or what games get the biggest draws, this post is almost entirely about attitude towards a new game and new players. Your attitude clearly needs some adjusting if it wants to be of help with the future of the guilty gear scene.

[the_d3v]

IMO, people are not realizing that, due to the series' age and being part of the late 90's, GG actually does have some "old school cred", especially among gamers who may be fans of fighting games, but aren't actually aware of issues with "animu" games. These are people who might not ever consider touching something like BlazBlue, Persona, Melty, Arcana Heart, etc. but would happily pick up Guilty Gear simply because it's a familiar, old-school name from back in the day (I know more than a few people, including a know TO, who would fit into this). The key then is for the existing community to find a way to milk this fact to be able to grow their numbers.

[zerosoulreaver]

I have been playing GG for ages and still can't put my finger on how to get new people into it. The problem with GG is that people who do touch Melty, Persona, BlazBlue don't always necessarily play or want to learn GG. Let's face it, the learning cap is way different for them and we shouldn't compare those other "anime" games to GG just because of the style of art as they aren't the same. In fact I hate when people lump every game together of any style just cuz.

Maybe GG is an old man game, the problem I see is dedication from those who say they want to learn. No I'm not saying it's really their fault, why pick up a new game and learn from scratch where their are guys who have played or ages that are killers? People want easy access and easy to jump in and out gameplay these days. This is partially why games like KOF, Tekken, VF have trouble catching on with many folks.

I feel like when you go to play GG you really have to do your homework. Looking at videos, going to forums (like this one), playing for yourself with trial and error. It's really a lot to fathom and not everyone is that dedicated to go out of their way to find info. So trying to bring the info to them is a good idea which is what guys like Koogy and Klaige do.

I do want to give props to Klaige and Koogy for their efforts in making GG accessible to those who aren't always in the know.

Anyway, not quite sure what else people can do to get others interested even in xrd. I see people jumping on xrd day 1 and then hopping off because it's new and because it looks as if it's going to be as deep as the other GGs.

[edollarports]

I agree GG has an old man feel. Every time I go to conventions and play GG I find random people that played in days of yore.

[Klaige]

One of the hardest things to do is break the "stigmas" associated with a game that isn't as popular as the biggest ones in the scene. To this day I'm still trying to get people to realize that GG isn't this giant brick wall of difficult execution that you have to fight for years to get over. The term "Anime games" has stuck to a set of fighters and I think it really does hurt their potential just because there are certain things (for better or worse) that people automatically associate with the term anime game.

The best thing you can do is show everyone out there why all 3 Arc-sys flafship series (GG, BB, and P4A), are good games. It's so rare for one company to have 3 well done and for the most part well balanced games out there that all share components, yet play completely differently, that I think a lot of people just assume that arc-sys players are so biased that they over-inflate how depth-filled and fun these titles are. Believe it or not, it's not easy to show someone what makes an air-dash game good or why they can be a lot of fun to play, learn, and compete in.

This is again why my original intent of this thread is to hopefully get people to keep an open mind. Being a smaller core of players means we can't afford to push people away with negativity or pumping ourselves up and believing our game is too good to become more accessible and entice newer players. I know this is not easy to do, and even saying something you have good intentions about when it comes to GG or XRD or any arc-sys game, can come off as elitest or off-putting to players who are new or looking to get in from other games.

The other thing that really needs to be hammered home is that it's not worth worrying about it if people aren't "dedicated" to the game. Everyone has different tastes and interest in different games and maybe they are willing to put a certain amount of effort into one, but not another because it's just not their thing. While more numbers showing up to events and casuals are great, and bigger entries in tournaments help put the game in a stronger light (I.E. people don't assume its a dead or dying game), sheer numbers aren't everything.

When you have the big numbers you also have more loud-mouths or generally trollish people in the scene. The stream monster era is a real thing, and if you get the big draws that means you get all the pluses and minuses that go with it. You will get those players that don't actually want to learn real fundamentals or show up to tournaments, but instead just want to pop off and use their anonymous shield on the internet to entertain themselves. This is honestly the sort of thing that I think causes a lot of players to want to be negative about making a game more accessible, they fear the game they really love becoming a haven for stream/pot monsters who will make the scene less fun as a whole.

This is the difficult balance that is trying to be achieved by having the next big fighting game on the horizon be from arc-systems. How do you get more players interested and increase the quantity of the community without sacrificing the quality. One of the more likely answers is more simple than you think, and that's just to try and follow the advice i've offered up in here. If you a generally helpful to new players, offer them a welcome pad and point them in the proper direction when they have questions then it does a world of good. At the same time, don't worry about or try to fight off the "stream monster" that shows up now and again. You can't stop people from being dumb on the internet, it's a waste of your time, and that effort is far better served by, again, doing things to help the players who are showing real interest. On top of this, if people just don't worry about the jackasses out there who act that way, then eventually they go away. There's nothing entertaining if they can't get people to take the bait they toss out.

At the end of the day, certain games will always come with certain stigmas or outside opinions. The "anime game" tag isn't going away, and people are going to have pre-conceived notions about guilty gear or any arc-sys game. The goal isn't to "show them the light" or to make them realize they are wrong, the goal is just to be open and inviting to players who want to check these games out. This isn't a political campaign, and were not going to walk out and sway people's vote, it's just about being a group of people that can have fun playing games we really enjoy, and hopefully convincing some new blood to hop on board and take the ride with us.

Edited August 13, 2013 by Klaige

[Dreiko]

I became competitive with fighters with BBCT, before that I was just playing 3D games with my friends. Through BB, I discovered GG and hearing all the cool things about it (once I had been into BB enough to comprehend their meaning) made me wanna play it.

All throughout those early days, there'd be a few loud angry people who would badmouth the game, it was quite funny to beat them at GG once the game finally got online play by using my BB-obtained skills. Yes, I likely wasn't playing the game right, I hadn't had much practice, still though, fundementals transfer.

That's when it hit me, people who'd be assholes like that, they're just insecure, they're not really good or really confident in themselves or their game so they have to put others down. The people who destroyed me in GG, the ones who actually knew how to play it right, they tended to be cool and nice and helpful for the most part. I think the ellitist people are just like the ones in every scene, they try to cover up their insecurities by dumping on people who just don't know enough about the game to stand a chance but as long as you are good enough they scatter like roaches and will agree to your pro-BB anathema as if it was their original viewpoint.

It's just funny to me that the people who glorify the difficulty of the game aren't even all that good at doing all those difficult things. They like...want to brag that they play a difficult game despite being unable to do half the things, rather than enjoy a less difficult game and be able to do mostly all the things and lose those hollow bragging rights. Ah well, I like GG but BB is my favorite game, I'll play both, I'll enjoy both, eventually I hope I get as good in GG as I am in BB! :D

[Rhiya]

snip

Let's be honest: no good competitive game is easy to learn for people who want to play competitively. Some games just mask that fact better than others, and those are the games that make money and have huge playerbases. LoL really -is- a good example. The vast majority of the stream monsters and low-level players don't and won't care about leveling up, but the game is playable for them because there's a ton of other low-level players to fight and the game isn't hard to play and learn on a low level. GGAC doesn't even have move names in the damn movelist, let alone tutorials. It's hard to get into without someone to help. That's definitely a factor.

Also, -no- fighting game worth its salt has a low learning cap. Melty, BB, and P4A have a lot of stuff to learn, and an amount of system and character quirks that are at least -approximate- to GG's (compensating for cast size, anyways). The main difference is that people find GG's difficulty more up-front. Melty has character-specific delays for lots of bnbs, depending on who you play, and the exec can be pretty rough, but that's a lot less scary when you can do launcher>j.bc j.bc AT as a low-level bnb with the vast majority of the cast. Most people don't see that easing-in for GG, or at least, if it exists, they never get to look at it. The game doesn't show it to them, and it's hard to find players that aren't already doing the complicated stuff.

Edited August 13, 2013 by Dusk Thanatos