[CP] Noel Vermillion - Gameplay Discussion

[confusedxphreak]

Mmmm...I'm really apprehensive about that change to MF since her high damage combos come from that base damage. =/

[LunaKage]

A little iffy about the Muzzle Filter nerf, sure it gave retarded damage, but that was her ONLY way to get stupid damage. I suppose they hoped to change that by changing Crush Trigger and making it more viable for Noel to use, though we'll have to see.

Upon first read of that d.6C change, it reads like a buff "Easier to get all hits to connect" but really I never thought it mattered much, as long as our j.D > d.6B > d.6C > d.2D > etc combos still work as consistently as they do I'm perfectly fine with it, and honestly who knows? it might lead to MORE combo opportunities, though I'm willing to bet the d.5B > d.6C combos are no longer possible.

My only other worry is about the obvious buff to Fenrir, I was actually wanting this for a long time BBUUUUUTTT I do have a worry about this one as well, though it's not a huge worry, since I don't personally land these in matches all that often, but thanks to this change, it might no longer be possible to do OD Fenrir > Fenrir.

Crush Trigger Buff is great, Assault Through buff is great, though I was still kinda hoping that she just got her old one back lol. Ooh by the way, assuming Noel's combo routes are unchanged, depending on how high CT bounces, it actually opens up a very obvious combo extender for our 3C combos, since it was always harder to extend these due to already using 22C, so here's my idea: 3C > 22C~66 > 6C > j.D > d.6B > d.6C > d.2D > d.6B > CT > 66C > 6B > 4D > d.2D > d.5C > 22B

I use 6C > j.D in that example instead of 5B > 5C > sj.C > j.D because I assume if I did the latter, then the rest of the ender wouldn't work due to time, so I believe it would work if we just did 6C > j.D to save time.

[Appledash-]

I'm not sure I understand why the change to Fenrir would affect OD Fenrir > Fenrir combos.

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[LunaKage]

OD Fenrir > Fenrir is height dependant, the second fenrir won't connect If your opponent is too low after getting hit with the missle of the first fenrir.

luckilly we can already test this, just hit OD Fenrir on a standing opponent, then try to connect a second one, I'll test it myself if no one else does before I get home tonight.

[Demon Wind Bomb]

Assault Through buff is great, though I was still kinda hoping that she just got her old one back lol.

Did they release more changes? I don't remember seeing this before.

[Litherain-XIII]

i think he misread it as assault through when it was counter assault buff..

[Adsfzxczxc]

Nah, he's definitely talking about the counter assault, since assault through is basically the same as the previous iterations. Just a typo I bet.

Edited February 14, 2014 by Adsfzxczxc

[LunaKage]

yep my bad lol. I meant counter assault. this week's been tough on my brain lol.

[7r17r1]

Well mostly good changes, but not awesome changes either

Even if I really like the drive to crush trigger change aswell, this means that Noel can end a drive pressure by being plus on block for 25% meter, not bad

I'm pretty sure j.C kara cancelled j.D is a safejump...

Do you know what a safe jump is ? ôO

Because you don't make any sense for me, first because any setup into j.C kara j.D won't be safe jump... maybe j.C kara j.4D would have a chance but I highly doubt it.

And speaking of setups, you don't mention the setup in which this j.C j.D would be a safe jump

[Litherain-XIII]

its a safe jump actually. the j.C > landing j.D cancel into d.6B is the setup. what happens is if the opponent tries to dp the j.C will whiff but 6D comes out to then punish the dp attempt with invincibility. if the opponent blocks instead then j.C will be blocked and then the j.D will be canceled on landing frames and will skip into d.6B for a fast 16 frame overhead as a follow up. that's noels safe jump setup basically. so on paper it will look like this by the eye: j.C > d.6B

Edited February 15, 2014 by Litherain-XIII

[mMarikom]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWasXgCIGso

I meant to say recovery cancelled. Sorry I used the wrong word for it.

[LunaKage]

OK so I tested double Fenrir on a standing opponent, and it DID work, HOWEVER, I tested it on two characters Terumi and Ragna, and just those two gave me most of the info I needed. Against Terumi, it worked no problem, against Ragna, it didn't work if I was in his face, because the last couple of shots missed him, so he dropped a little lower than he should have, but when spaced a little bit it worked perfectly.

So basically this means that it's indeed possible, and may even be MORE consistent than it already is, though I wont be able to test it during actual combos until the patch obviously. I want to test in an actual combo due to spacing issues on a character like Ragna, which as I said makes the combo drop if Noel is too close to the corner, though the amount of space needed isn't huge, so basically I assume that if the ender will still work after a d.5C > d.6A > d.5C > OD Fenrir ender, then it should ALWAYS work.

Much Excite.

[7r17r1]

its a safe jump actually. the j.C > landing j.D cancel into d.6B is the setup. what happens is if the opponent tries to dp the j.C will whiff but 6D comes out to then punish the dp attempt with invincibility. if the opponent blocks instead then j.C will be blocked and then the j.D will be canceled on landing frames and will skip into d.6B for a fast 16 frame overhead as a follow up. that's noels safe jump setup basically. so on paper it will look like this by the eye: j.C > d.6B

Yeah, but this only works against 11+ frames DP (and not mu-12's one until the next patch)

And you have to underline that this safe jump setup works after a 22B combo ender

So yes, as long as you option select a d.6X after your safe jump, you can do what you want against a bunch of the cast

It's just that when I come around the forum and read "hey j.C j.D is safe jump", I' ve got nose bleed instantly :D

And it's not totally a safe jump, but I'm being a bit fussy, because if you go for this mix up with d.6B and the opponent rolled out, you'll end up driving in the wind which is not really recommended :D

But yeah, as showned in mMarikom's youtube link (which, btw, doesn't have anything to do with recovery cancel), j.C is a safe jump against most of the cast after a 22B combo ender

[LunaKage]

I mean, you can always use it as a normal safe jump instead of ALWAYS using the drive route.

j.C > Block beats all DPs

j.C > 4D beats MOST of the casts Reversals

j.C > Normals for pressure and such

It's just one of Noel's many options after a knockdown, the thing about CP Noel isn't that she's got any ONE thing that's godlike, it's just that she has a BUNCH of things that are pretty good. A good Noel can always keep his/her opponents on their toes, she can do so many things to call out so many things, but what makes her not broken is that these things can also be called out to punish her, and no one option Noel has covers too many options that the opponent has.

[mMarikom]

Yeah, but this only works against 11+ frames DP (and not mu-12's one until the next patch)

And you have to underline that this safe jump setup works after a 22B combo ender

So yes, as long as you option select a d.6X after your safe jump, you can do what you want against a bunch of the cast

It's just that when I come around the forum and read "hey j.C j.D is safe jump", I' ve got nose bleed instantly :D

And it's not totally a safe jump, but I'm being a bit fussy, because if you go for this mix up with d.6B and the opponent rolled out, you'll end up driving in the wind which is not really recommended :D

But yeah, as showned in mMarikom's youtube link (which, btw, doesn't have anything to do with recovery cancel), j.C is a safe jump against most of the cast after a 22B combo ender

I basically worded it wrong. The basic setup is just j.C block but j.C recovery cancelled j.D gives you both the same safejump if you choose to hold back and the option of drive mixup or a reversal bait d.4D. The first time I saw it before I saw Vista's vid was in this Jin DP OS video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qn0lS4_HGGs

Then after testing it in practice mode but I don't see a reason to not use the drive unless you're like me and mess it up sometimes. Personally I time it better when whiffing a rising j.A instead of doing the drive setup...

[7r17r1]

Yeah of course, I agree with all of that :p

Anyway, there are reason not to go for this setup, some can punish it :p

[legacy49i]

Noel (BBCP2?) changes

Counter Assault – Improved hitbox of the attack portion

Crash Trigger – Changed hit property to a ground bounce, can now be canceled into during Chain Revolver strings

(During Chain Revolver) 6C – reduced the trajectory of the thrown gun, can now hit with all hits easier

Type Nine – Muzzle Flitter – Damage, proration have been adjusted. When it hits raw, it deals more damage, but during a combo, it deals less

Type Zero – Fenrir – If the first hit hits an airborne opponent, it will force them to the ground and allow the super to hit fully

So what does everybody think about the changes to Noel?

So wait, there's already a CP2 coming?

The Muzzle Flitter nerf is shitty. The buff we got was the only good thing Noel had going for her, and now they're taking it away??? The Fenrir buff is nice, but the lost bullets hit as it is now isn't very significant. It's just whatev if you ask me. The d.6C change. I'm not sure I fully understand it. Crush Trigger buff may cause me to actually use it (GASP!). It's pretty worthless right now. And like someone else said, I'd really like her old Counter Assault back. It was SOOOO nice breaking free from long, multi-hit distortions (Litchi, Carl, Relius, Bang...)

Edited February 18, 2014 by legacy49i

[Appledash-]

How the hell do I quote things on tapatalk? About what Luna said about cp noel having a bunch of nice options rather than one really powerful option. I really like that about cp noel. It makes her feel dynamic or something. I dunno.

Is the muzzle filter nerf really that bad? Where will we get our stupid damage from now? Is it (potentially) gone?

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[Adsfzxczxc]

It's just a balance patch, mainly aimed at the new characters.

As for the d.6c change, for example right now if you do 6b>5d>d.5c>d.6c in the corner, you will miss a bunch of hits of the d.6c, so I assume that the change just allows more of the d.6c hits to hit. Basically just a minor change that gives us slightly more damage.

As for the muzzle filter, they may have just adjusted the base value or maybe even the P1 and P2 so that the rest of the combo doesn't do as much damage. We don't know how bad it is yet. Either way RIP 5k corner 6B combos.

Edited February 18, 2014 by Adsfzxczxc

[legacy49i]

It's just a balance patch, mainly aimed at the new characters.

Thank God! All the new characters are ridiculous! Seems that whenever Arcsys introduces a new character, they're incredibly unbalanced. I remember when Valk first came out and he was doing obscene damage with very few hits.

And getting a solid 1.5k on Muzzle Flitter is awesome! Using Muzzle Flitter at all is highly situational, so I think having high damage isn't unreasonable. Bang has big damage on his command throw. Actually, compared to everyone else, Noel's command throw pretty much sucks, and the fact that it's now doing big damage makes it not suck for the the first time. I almost never used it up until CP, and now I use it every chance I get.

[Random Naoto]

Good ol' Jamie McXie made a tweet about seeing an unusually high damage Noel combo while watching people play the patched build. He didn't really go into detail, but I would assume he was alluding to crush trigger in the use of drive combos giving her much better damage since the only other thing that would actually change her damage was a nerf.

Rejoice noel players...?

[LunaKage]

"Extremely high damage combo"

Cool? I mean, it would HAVE to be Crush Trigger if all the other reports are true, I'd say if we could get a CH 5C > 214A starter, with an early Crush Trigger, into OD, while using the combo to build back the 25% meter so we could double super, then we could do mad stacks of damage.

But as it stands atm, our current max damage is around 7k, and that's with 100 meter and OD. So I guess we'll find out.

[Demon Wind Bomb]

Good ol' Jamie McXie made a tweet about seeing an unusually high damage Noel combo while watching people play the patched build. He didn't really go into detail, but I would assume he was alluding to crush trigger in the use of drive combos giving her much better damage since the only other thing that would actually change her damage was a nerf.

Rejoice noel players...?

The tweet said that Noel got over 5k damage for an incomplete CH 5C> 214A combo.

We normally get that much off of those combos anyway, but the fact that it's incomplete is interesting.

I'm more interested in whether or not they changed Muzzle Filters raw damage.

Edited February 21, 2014 by Demon Wind Bomb

[LunaKage]

Well midscreen meterless we got about 5.2-5.4k if I remember right, in the corner meterless we got 5.6k

So who knows?

[legacy49i]

You know, the whole CH 5C -> Muzzle Flitter thing, I was reading some people bitching about how it's too good on another site. I barely have enough mental capacity to understand that it was a CH to make the link. Plus, I've been conditioned to go CH 5C -> 3C for some time now, and old habits die hard. On top of that, I rarely come out with a raw 5C. 5C doesn't have much more range than 5B and 5B is much faster.

Also, I wish they'd alter Noel's 2D so ALL of the cast would bounce correctly on air hits. And bring back her old Counter Assault.

You know what else sucks? They should give her an extra Distortion. Seems everyone gets them but the characters I use (Noel, Ragna, Tager). It should be 360D, then you teleport behind the opponent will full invincibility, command throw for 7k. By the way, I fucking HATE Bang's gay ass new Distortions that teleport and throw. How in the fuck are you supposed to not get hit???

Edited February 21, 2014 by legacy49i