[CP] Noel Vermillion - Gameplay Discussion

[legacy49i]

Good to know. Thanks!

[LiveWireX]

This is going to sound weird but, from just lab messing around and going off of starting combos with 6A>6C(2)>2D, or 6A>6C>6B>6D midscreen it 'feels' like I can get something decent off of it, and I can often do d.5C>d.5A>d.5B>236A from it, but I'm not sure what to go for from there.

I sorta have the same problem with some stuff in the corner, as yeah I can just do 6A>6C(2)>6C>6B>6D>5D>5C>5A>Bloom Trigger (6A being the starter as before), and depending on timing can finish it with 5B>Chamber Shot, but I can never quite figure out just what the best sort of action would be. Just some quick advice, or suggestions or whatnot would be helpful. I also admittedly haven't really tried going in depth with the 22B~ stuff or 22C in combos, since I'm trying to take it a step at a time and not go and try to "learn everything at once", since I feel much more like it's starting from scratch in CP, than I have with any other iteration post-CT.

Edited November 14, 2013 by LiveWireX

[LunaKage]

I assume those combos you stated were the beginning of a combo and not the end right?

[LiveWireX]

I assume those combos you stated were the beginning of a combo and not the end right?

Oh yeah, they're 6A starters. I went and cleared that up in my original post.

Edited November 14, 2013 by LiveWireX

[LunaKage]

Oh yeah, they're 6A starters. I went and cleared that up in my original post.

Aight, now that I'm home at my computer I can give you some 6A combo routes. I'm honestly surprised Alpha/Delta or Lith didn't get here first, dem guys needs to step it up :3

Ok, so basically after a 6A route (meaning raw 6A, or anything into 6A) you wanna super jump j.C > j.D to confirm.

Here's a few examples:

Midscreen:

6A > sj.C > j.D > (d.6B) > d.6C > d.2D > d.6B > 22C~66 > 6C > 6B > 4D > d.2D > d.5C > 22B

6A > sj.C > j.D > d.6B > d.5C > d.6B > 22C~66 > 6C > 6B > 4D > d.2D > d.5C > 22B (Works on everyone)

Corner:

6A > sj.C > j.D > d.4D > d.2D > d.6B > 236D > 66C > 4D > 214D > 6C(2) > 6B > 22BxN

These are the main ones I use, keep in mind that depending on how many moves you used before the 6A, they might affect how long the combo can go, so shorten it as required, I can list a few examples of shorter combos if you'd like.

[GreeniX]

That's a really nice tutorial, Luna, but the video seems to imply that you absolutely need long overdrive time and a jump cancel OD activation in order to land double super. While it does seem to be the best thing to do if you have low life, you can still land a normal Fenrir after an OD Fenrir. On the standard combo you used to test your stuff, this yields ~5.4k damage as opposed to double OD Fenrir which did ~5.6k. Needless to say, this is still a really good option to go for the kill even if you yourself are at max HP.

[LunaKage]

Man, the video was already 4 minutes long lol. I figured people would kinda get the point regardless.

And since you got the point, I suppose I was right :3

[legacy49i]

6A > sj.C > j.D > (d.6B) > d.6C > d.2D > d.6B > 22C~66 > 6C > 6B > 4D > d.2D > d.5C > 22B

6A > sj.C > j.D > d.6B > d.5C > d.6B > 22C~66 > 6C > 6B > 4D > d.2D > d.5C > 22B (Works on everyone)

Corner:

6A > sj.C > j.D > d.4D > d.2D > d.6B > 236D > 66C > 4D > 214D > 6C(2) > 6B > 22BxN

I like these. I will give them all a run when I get home. THANKS! I'm still teetering between CSEX mentality and CP mentality. It'll be a while before I can clear out all my old muscle memory.

[Alpha152]

I already posted my all of my combo routes though...personally I like to use j.D > (d.2D) > d.6B because unless it's off an 5/2A starter, it will guarantee wall stick from BT.

[LunaKage]

you gotta be ready to repeat yourself man lol, I usually only use that variation of the combo if I crossed myself closer to the corner after j.D, its one of the ways to get corner carry.

[Eshi]

I need anti-noel tech plzkthnx. her drive can't really be disrespected in this game, can it? seems pretty strong.

[Demon Wind Bomb]

I need anti-noel tech plzkthnx. her drive can't really be disrespected in this game, can it? seems pretty strong.

It still can, but it depends entirely on what drive string she's using.

Based on my limited experience with Amane, I believe he can use his 632146C super to disrespect drive pressure. However we can use our 4D mid drive to bait any attempts at mashing out of drive.

[Eshi]

It still can, but it depends entirely on what drive string she's using.

Based on my limited experience with Amane, I believe he can use his 632146C super to disrespect drive pressure. However we can use our 4D mid drive to bait any attempts at mashing out of drive.

looking at frame data, it appears that Noel can beat reversal super by doing 4D after the super flash. So that's pretty cool. Edited November 15, 2013 by Eshi

[LunaKage]

yeah, d.4D is a really good reversal bait this time around. keep in mind that her overhead while in drive is much faster than her low, so it might be more benificial to block high and react to her low while she's in drive.

the best way to beat noels drive is to block it, because we're still pretty boned if we don't open you up.

[LiveWireX]

Pretty much going to echo what people have said, and add on that some Drives (aside from the obvious example of normal 2D) feel more easily punishable this time than before. Things such as Spring Raid seem to have increased vulnerability/punish potential, and Assault Through is now almost punish on hit, if the move itself leaves you on the ground instead of going through the air. It's always seemed a bit amusing to me that punishing Noel often can turn to just "wait a couple seconds for her to be done".

[LunaKage]

actually assault through is only -4 on block now. can only be punished on IB. if AT lands, than any A move will beat out anything without invuln the opponent tries to do.

[Alpha152]

Ehhh...her Drive is so much better now. In EX you could seldom do a drive blockstring without leaving a gap for you opponent to mash or escape from and now you're able to do gapless mix up and even end your blockstring without getting mashed out. AT was -8 in EX...it's now -4. SR will always be punishable because it's a DP.

Regarding Drive pressure, if you don't want to block her drive mix up your alternative options for dealing with it are:

- Up-back (Noel has to commit to using a frame trap that punishes jump startup, but this will always let you jump out of d.6D. Creating a frame gap also allows you to reversal out)

- Reversal (Noel has to end her pressure early to make it gap-less or commit to baiting the reversal which leaves very few mix up options afterwards)

- 4D (In the case of a mirror match, Noel has to call out 4D with d.6D)

[LunaKage]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vOD49Xp7Nw&feature=youtu.be

CH 5C Corner combo. With multiple Enders.

[mAc Chaos]

Ehhh...her Drive is so much better now. In EX you could seldom do a drive blockstring without leaving a gap for you opponent to mash or escape from and now you're able to do gapless mix up and even end your blockstring without getting mashed out. AT was -8 in EX...it's now -4. SR will always be punishable because it's a DP.

Regarding Drive pressure, if you don't want to block her drive mix up your alternative options for dealing with it are:

- Up-back (Noel has to commit to using a frame trap that punishes jump startup, but this will always let you jump out of d.6D. Creating a frame gap also allows you to reversal out)

- Reversal (Noel has to end her pressure early to make it gap-less or commit to baiting the reversal which leaves very few mix up options afterwards)

- 4D (In the case of a mirror match, Noel has to call out 4D with d.6D)

can i still mash counter through them

[LunaKage]

can i still mash counter through them

Only where there are gaps. So during the actual Mixup portion yes. We can bait them like any other reversal though.

[mAc Chaos]

All right.

So they are much safer now. Strange, I wonder why I never tried to punish them in CS1~EX. I look at the frame data and see they have huge recoveries. Like a blocked 2D, I could probably just 5C.

> blocking 2D

But that doesn't count the gatlings so I could never be sure.

[Putin]

Only where there are gaps. So during the actual Mixup portion yes. We can bait them like any other reversal though.

So, where exaclty are those gaps?

I can DP out of most of her stuff, but it seems that I can't mash out of them as reliably. I could even 5B some of her strings in EX, but now I often find myself trading when using 5f 5As or even Houtenjin.

[LunaKage]

Well if you think you can reversal out of her "most of her stuff" that means the Noels you fight aren't baiting the DPs.

Noel has a lot of gapless strings in drive, the only time gaps show up are her frametraps, and her mixup. Pretty much everything else is tight, so you are probably only able to DP out of a lot of her stuff because they are only ever using her mixup options in drive.

[BlackYakuzu94]

All right.

So they are much safer now. Strange, I wonder why I never tried to punish them in CS1~EX. I look at the frame data and see they have huge recoveries. Like a blocked 2D, I could probably just 5C.

> blocking 2D

But that doesn't count the gatlings so I could never be sure.

I just used Hakumen's 6D back when it was still good. It was hilarious, just punishing everything that came at me.

Mashing out of her drives is such a pain now because of how gapless it is, the only place I can see where its ok to mash out is d.6B, and it was probably a fluke.

[legacy49i]

if AT lands, than any A move will beat out anything without invuln the opponent tries to do.

:/ I'm always exchanging or getting hit on a 2A. What's up with that?