Chrono Phantasma Story Discussion [fun tentatively allowed again]

[BlackYakuzu94]

That fight took an entire episode? Jesus.

[Master Of Chaos]

So what exactly was the reason that Team Rachel had to trap Hazama and have Trinity separate him and Terumi's positions? Was it because Hazama's life link with Noel made it impossible for them to kill Terumi? What was the game plan after that?

[kylehyde]

So Ragna will become a zombie?, and why Rachel needs to die? Damn it, now I want to know what comes next, but reality is cruel and we'll have to wait at least another year.

I also don't know why the she has to die but would love for Mori to explain it. Anyone else find it strange that Rachel was all for Ragna fighting for his life until his last breath and now she like wants him dead. >:|

[Shinhwa]

That fight took an entire episode? Jesus.

Eh, pretty much. Don't worry it was less talk more fighting until like after Tsubaki gets freed from Mind Eater where Kagura tells them that he wants to take down the current Imperator and like tells them about Homura and such. That part had a lot of talking actually (it's gonna be a pain lol)

I also don't know why the she has to die but would love for Mori to explain it. Anyone else find it strange that Rachel was all for Ragna fighting for his life until his last breath and now she like wants him dead. >:|

You know, there are tons of weird things that happen in this game, where despite the fact Rachel and Jubei do support Ragna, they also have supported Jin who actually wants to kill Ragna. They must have their reasons.

[churchblue]

Oh. Forgot about that part.

Here are the translations then:

Tsubaki: This is...?

Tsubaki: That's right. This is the darkness within me.

Tsubaki: My heart's darkness that I have always ignored.

Jin: Don't become ignorant Tsubaki. Don't become like me.

Tsubaki: Who?

Tsubaki: What have I...?

Tsubaki: That's right... I had fought against Makoto, Noel, and Jin Nii-sama...

Tsubaki: I attacked Jin Nii-sama with my sword...

Tsubaki: I... killed Jin Nii-sama? Ah... just... what have I done...?

Jin: Succeed my will.

Tsubaki: Me, succeeding Jin Nii-sama's will?

Hakumen: Is that so... The Power of Order was used.

Tsubaki: !? Hakumen-sama? Why are you here?

Hakumen: To send you back. Is that the right word to say?

Tsubaki: To send me back?

Hakumen: Tsubaki Yayoi. The Power of Order means the power of will. That willpower can even overpower dimensional influences.

Hakumen: Jin Kisaragi used his willpower to believe in you. Even at the cost of his life, he believed in the existence of Tsubaki Yayoi who thought about him.

Hakumen: More powerful than the Imperator's curse.

Hakumen: You should have felt it. Even compared to the Imperator you had faith in, even compared to the justice that makes you stand, you have thought about one man named Jin Kisaragi. That's why the evil spell that bound you was broken.

Hakumen: He did not run away and faced it. He did not ignore it and followed his heart. It is something I was unable to do.

Hakumen: Go, Tsubaki Yayoi. The Imperator's curse is already broken. Return to reality and follow Jin Kisaragi's will.

Tsubaki: Hakumen-sama. I have seen it. No, I must have seen it since the beginning.

Tsubaki: Noel, Makoto and Jin Nii-sama's thoughts

Tsubaki: But I have committed a sin. If I can make up for it, I really want to. I want to reply to everyone's thoughts. If it comes true, I want to reply to it.

Tsubaki: But I have... killed Jin Nii-sama with my own hands...

Tsubaki: If this is the price to pay for my sins, I will accept it. If I don't... but I....

Tsubaki: I don't want to lose them... I don't want to fall apart from them...! From Noel! From Makoto! From Jin Nii-sama!

Hakumen: Then think. More than Makoto Nanaya, more than Noel Vermillion, more than Jin Kisaragi.

Hakumen: Think hard enough to the point that the Power of Order doesn't feel enough.

Hakumen: Those thoughts will give you Light. A new hope.

Tsubaki: A new hope...

*Tsubaki awakens*

Thank you so much.

[kylehyde]

Eh, pretty much. Don't worry it was less talk more fighting until like after Tsubaki gets freed from Mind Eater where Kagura tells them that he wants to take down the current Imperator and like tells them about Homura and such. That part had a lot of talking actually (it's gonna be a pain lol)

You know, there are tons of weird things that happen in this game, where despite the fact Rachel and Jubei do support Ragna, they also have supported Jin who actually wants to kill Ragna. They must have their reasons.

Yeah they've been supporting Jin from way back in CT even, so it's nothing new in CP. I'm hoping that the next game is truly the final game cause they need to end this Ragna getting screwed from all sides story.

[Shinhwa]

Yeah they've been supporting Jin from way back in CT even, so it's nothing new in CP. I'm hoping that the next game is truly the final game cause they need to end this Ragna getting screwed from all sides story.

You mean in gag routes? O.o

[NumeroGaijin]

Has anyone organized all these stories in order yet or will it be possible? I have been wanting to read the story but it is way too fragmented atm for me to piece it together without putting one part in front of the other.

[Shinhwa]

Has anyone organized all these stories in order yet or will it be possible? I have been wanting to read the story but it is way too fragmented atm for me to piece it together without putting one part in front of the other.

I did put an extreme long summary of the entire game except it is only in Ragna's point of view as it was originally written for Ragna's character page on blazblue wikia. I am currently working on translations of Episode 1~18 of Chronophantasma, but my life stuff is getting in the way so you will have to wait a bit.

[Zedar90]

So what exactly was the reason that Team Rachel had to trap Hazama and have Trinity separate him and Terumi's positions? Was it because Hazama's life link with Noel made it impossible for them to kill Terumi? What was the game plan after that?

They didn't trap Terumi, Rachel used Jubei sekigan who had seen Terumi's true form as a guide for trinity to enter Terumi's mind. The reason? What good will it do to kill Hazama, all Terumi has to do is to get a new body. Also Terumi doesn't have a Life-Link with Noel, it is Hazama that has it.

I also don't know why the she has to die but would love for Mori to explain it. Anyone else find it strange that Rachel was all for Ragna fighting for his life until his last breath and now she like wants him dead. >:|

Rachel doesn't really want Ragna dead as much as it needs to be done. The same way as she wanted Noel dead at the end of CS.

And why she must die? It's never explained but it might have something to do with this. When an Observer starts to observe someone the can't stop doing it, unless someone "higher" takes over. And when the one who observes dies so does the observing target.

[Shinhwa]

They didn't trap Terumi, Rachel used Jubei sekigan who had seen Terumi's true form as a guide for trinity to enter Terumi's mind. The reason? What good will it do to kill Hazama, all Terumi has to do is to get a new body. Also Terumi doesn't have a Life-Link with Noel, it is Hazama that has it.

am I to understand that Hazama isn't dead then? Platinum and Hazama stabbed each other but that was it, except BP Vermillion thinks he is dead just because Terumi and Hazama were linked.

Rachel doesn't really want Ragna dead as much as it needs to be done. The same way as she wanted Noel dead at the end of CS.

And why she must die? It's never explained but it might have something to do with this. When an Observer starts to observe someone the can't stop doing it, unless someone "higher" takes over. And when the one who observes dies so does the observing target.

Actually that makes sense. That might be the reason. But I thought Rachel had observed Hakumen to keep his existence in the world. Or was she doing both?

[Zedar90]

am I to understand that Hazama isn't dead then? Platinum and Hazama stabbed each other but that was it, except BP Vermillion thinks he is dead just because Terumi and Hazama were linked.

The story wants us to believe that Hazama is dead so it is best to say so. Personally? Don't believe for one second that he is.

Actually that makes sense. That might be the reason. But I thought Rachel had observed Hakumen to keep his existence in the world. Or was she doing both?

You can observe several people at the same time. Rachel is currently observing herself and Hakumen for what it is known. Kokonoe was observing Arakune, Hakumen and herself at the same time at one point, until Rachel took over the observing duty of Hakumen.

[Shinhwa]

The story wants us to believe that Hazama is dead so it is best to say so. Personally? Don't believe for one second that he is.

In terms of all those questions that this game's story left us regarding Hazama and Terumi (Jin's question about Hazama and Ragna's question about why Terumi wanted to become a Black Beast), and yeah considering the Life Link with Noel, I guess it is possible.

You can observe several people at the same time. Rachel is currently observing herself and Hakumen for what it is known. Kokonoe was observing Arakune, Hakumen and herself at the same time at one point, until Rachel took over the observing duty of Hakumen.

There is something I am confused about though. Why did Rachel lose her ability to use teleportation magic and such after joining the "stage" and becoming an "actor"?

Also, am I to understand that a lot of characters became weaker or useless due to being unable to use Ars Magus anymore ?

Edited December 5, 2013 by Shinhwa

[Zedar90]

There is something I am confused about though. Why did Rachel lose her ability to use teleportation magic and such after joining the "stage" and becoming an "actor"?

Also, am I to understand that a lot of characters became weaker or useless due to being unable to use Ars Magus anymore ?

There is nothing to say why she did get weaker, but what Amane said it was because she got too involved. Something like "if you're going to play the game you sure are going to follow the rules" instead of being able to break the "rules" all the time?

I don't think any of the Playable Characters are going to get weaker, since it makes sense for them all to be part of the "qualified ones". And the others are slowly become seithr and gets drained to Take-mikazuchi. The question is why are they able to use Ars magus? The lynchpin is stopping seithr to come from the boundary and Take-mikazuchi is draining all the seithr in the air. So what are they using?

[Shinhwa]

There is nothing to say why she did get weaker, but what Amane said it was because she got too involved. Something like "if you're going to play the game you sure are going to follow the rules" instead of being able to break the "rules" all the time?

I don't think any of the Playable Characters are going to get weaker, since it makes sense for them all to be part of the "qualified ones". And the others are slowly become seithr and gets drained to Take-mikazuchi. The question is why are they able to use Ars magus? The lynchpin is stopping seithr to come from the boundary and Take-mikazuchi is draining all the seithr in the air. So what are they using?

Yeah, even after re-watching the story mode several times, I could not really find the right answer to why a Bystander gets weaker if he/she gets too involved.

And well, I mean... I thought characters can't really use their Drives and killer moves if there is no seithr to manipulate for it... Which means it would be pure melee. But if there is no seithr to manipulate, doesn't that mean Nox Nyctores can't really be used either? I thought their main engine was seithr.

More like what's Bang gonna do now that he doesn't have Phoenix: Rettenjou? XD;;

Lynchpin did stop all seithr activity right? So Take-Mikazuchi is getting all the seithr from the people that are turning into seithr?

Edited December 5, 2013 by Shinhwa

[Zedar90]

Yeah, even after re-watching the story mode several times, I could not really find the right answer to why a Bystander gets weaker if he/she gets too involved.

And well, I mean... I thought characters can't really use their Drives and killer moves if there is no seithr to manipulate for it... And wait what the.

Lynchpin did stop all seithr activity right? So Take-Mikazuchi is getting all the seithr from the people that are turning into seithr?

Yeah, Lynch pin deactivates the Seithr, but I think only the ones inside the boundary, the seithr in the air and those the gets turned into is drained by Take-mikazuchi.

And the reason to identify those who are "qualified ones" is to be able to use Ars magus, so they must be able to use it somehow without using seithr. Are they turning their own bodies and souls into Seithr and uses it?

[Shinhwa]

Yeah, Lynch pin deactivates the Seithr, but I think only the ones inside the boundary, the seithr in the air and those the gets turned into is drained by Take-mikazuchi.

And the reason to identify those who are "qualified ones" is to be able to use Ars magus, so they must be able to use it somehow without using seithr. Are they turning their own bodies and souls into Seithr and uses it?

Really, I have no idea as during Episode 18, Makoto and Tsubaki were unable to use any Ars Magus after the Lynchpin hit the Monolith tower, but they still fought (how they fought is not shown but it is presumed they just used ordinary melee). Also the fact the only one who used Ars Magus after the Lynchpin activated was Ragna but that was only thanks to the Noise Canceller according to Kokonoe. I am not even sure if Mu-12/Noel and Jin used any Ars Magus when fighting Ragna :I

[Zedar90]

Really, I have no idea as during Episode 18, Makoto and Tsubaki were unable to use any Ars Magus after the Lynchpin hit the Monolith tower, but they still fought (how they fought is not shown but it is presumed they just used ordinary melee). Also the fact the only one who used Ars Magus after the Lynchpin activated was Ragna but that was only thanks to the Noise Canceller according to Kokonoe. I am not even sure if Mu-12/Noel and Jin used any Ars Magus when fighting Ragna :I

There had to be some effect from the Lynchpin before it reached the Boundary through the monolith, and becoming an "Qualified One" might not be that instant. After all, one must be chosen by the Azure.

Tsubaki must be able to use ars magus, or else she is extremely stupid to go after Ragna.

[Shinhwa]

There had to be some effect from the Lynchpin before it reached the Boundary through the monolith, and becoming an "Qualified One" might not be that instant. After all, one must be chosen by the Azure.

Tsubaki must be able to use ars magus, or else she is extremely stupid to go after Ragna.

Really we don't know as it was not shown XD;;

But as I said, Tsubaki could not use it after the Lynchpin had activated lol.

And yes Tsubaki is stupid as she pretty much moved out of rage after seeing Noel and Jin in a really bad state =w=;

I am more interested in what Amane said about Ragna when they met. Amane really seems to be another bystander like Rachel but I wonder if there is another special reason why he really wants Carl other than Amane wanting Carl to join his group.

Edited December 5, 2013 by Shinhwa

[Alpha to Omega]

They didn't trap Terumi, Rachel used Jubei sekigan who had seen Terumi's true form as a guide for trinity to enter Terumi's mind.

What power does the Sekigan have anyway? How did it force Terumi into his ghost form in PS 4?

[Shinhwa]

Seriously wish the Phase Shift novels were fully translated as I lack information about what happened in them in full detail... T.T

They were the main reason why I could not put in the summaries about what Ragna did in the Dark War era in detail for his summary for Chronophantasma on the wiki =w=;

I blame myself being unable to read all the Kanji TwT

[Zedar90]

What power does the Sekigan have anyway? How did it force Terumi into his ghost form in PS 4?

Have no real idea what sekigan really does. This is the dialog between Rachel and Jubei when she gives him it:

Jubei: … It was a long time since I last saw it.

Rachel: After it was picked up together with Tomonori it seemed to have been sealed by Father.

Not be easily carried out until the time has come.

Jubei: I'm sorry to have given you problems about the things with Tomonori.

Rachel: It wasn't I that was troubled. That is why I have to care for it carefully. Especally toward...

Jubei: Yuuki Terumi.

Rachel: It will work as you guys has planned. You can cut the black beast's spirit with Hihiirokane and enter the black beast. However if you take it I will have you to carry another act.

Jubei: Act?

Rachel: The act of killing Yuuki Terumi.

Jubei: You can't just use mind eater and seal him again... huh.

Rachel: It isn't possible. It's obvious. Before when father sealed him it was thanks to that Yuuki Terumi's conscious wasn't perfect. We finally was able to seal him after throwing away Tomonori's life.

Hihiirokane is the only weapon that can kill Terumi. And probably you are the one user who is the most accepted by that katana. I think that if it is you I can entrust it.

The one to decide is you. So, decide.

Jubei: That role, I accept it.

Rachel: … is that so. Okay, if that is the case Jubei, I have prepared another weapon for you.

Jubei: Weapon?

Rachel: Special Item, one could say to make some atmosphere perhaps?

The one who cut “Yuuki Terumi”, and saw his spirit's eye.

Jubei: It couldn't be...

Rachel: That's right. Tomonori's eye.

[Master Of Chaos]

They didn't trap Terumi, Rachel used Jubei sekigan who had seen Terumi's true form as a guide for trinity to enter Terumi's mind. The reason? What good will it do to kill Hazama, all Terumi has to do is to get a new body. Also Terumi doesn't have a Life-Link with Noel, it is Hazama that has it.

My bad, I had assumed that they had trapped him from what I saw in his arcade story.

I am aware that it is Hazama, not Terumi, who has the life link with Noel. My question is this: Why did it become a necessity to bring out Terumi in this way? In CS, Rachel's plan was "Get Hakuwin to fight Hazama and kill him," since he was apparently the only one who had a chance of doing it with his strength and the Power of Order, and it would have killed Terumi as well, or at least make it possible for him to be killed (At least, from how Rachel put it). What changed that made it so Hakumen couldn't just kill Hazama like he was trying to do in CS? I had thought Hazama's life link made him invincible to the point where even Hakumen's power could not fully kill him, and therefore they could not reach Terumi, who is inside Hazama. Or is there something else?

[Toxin45]

My bad, I had assumed that they had trapped him from what I saw in his arcade story.

I am aware that it is Hazama, not Terumi, who has the life link with Noel. My question is this: Why did it become a necessity to bring out Terumi in this way? In CS, Rachel's plan was "Get Hakuwin to fight Hazama and kill him," since he was apparently the only one who had a chance of doing it with his strength and the Power of Order, and it would have killed Terumi as well, or at least make it possible for him to be killed (At least, from how Rachel put it). What changed that made it so Hakumen couldn't just kill Hazama like he was trying to do in CS? I had thought Hazama's life link made him invincible to the point where even Hakumen's power could not fully kill him, and therefore they could not reach Terumi, who is inside Hazama. Or is there something else?

Apparently doesn't stop him from being defeated and Killing Terumi from Hazama

[BlackYakuzu94]

I think its like Zedar said before, killing Hazama would be useless because of his life link and the fact that "Hazama" is simply the body he is using atm, and if it dies Terumi can just get another. In order to kill Terumi, they have to kill him as in, not Hazama but Terumi himself, which Hakumen did in CP.

In CS, I'm pretty sure Rachel didn't take into account that Hazama established a link with Noel and was completely caught off guard by it.