ArisatoGod Posted September 21, 2014 Posted September 21, 2014 I noticed that when Azreal used TCL in the corner, he was able follow with 5A, that's a buff I guess? Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2
Yuhoke Posted September 21, 2014 Posted September 21, 2014 Also are you talking about Scud invuln frame wise or range wise? From what I saw, Scud was HELLA fast. It wasn't really a good reversal because it was so slow, even though it was invulnerable. In the video at 1:15:38 Ragna does backdash and Az's Scud still snags him. No way that could've worked before.
StylisH Posted September 21, 2014 Posted September 21, 2014 They said they wanted Kokonoe to be beginner friendly too. Damned if they didn't accomplish that
natearistata Posted September 21, 2014 Posted September 21, 2014 I noticed that when Azreal used TCL in the corner, he was able follow with 5A, that's a buff I guess? Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2 Kind of. It causes wall stick in the corner now vs wall bounce everywhere, so grounded TCL can lead to a follow-up in the corner that would've required a rapid cancel before. However, the removal of wall bounce mid-screen kills his mid-screen oki off of it. Not really sure right now what his best mid-screen, meterless combo routes are now beyond something incredibly simplistic like 5B > 2C > 6/3D for retaining pressure. Also, the untech time of Scud Punishment might just mean that it's a viable mid-combo distortion to use in the corner. Due to the bounce, I wouldn't be surprised if they were close enough for a 2A follow-up, which could lead to things like Scud > 2A > TC > Valiant/Hornet etc. Sending full-screen otherwise is a bummer, though, for the same reason that TCL sending full screen hurts.
Myoro Posted September 21, 2014 Posted September 21, 2014 1. 6B seems like it can be cancelled by more than just forward dashes. I saw it jump cancelled (on hit) and normal cancelled into 6C (on whiff). 2. Damage looks somewhat lower but kinda hard to tell. Might just be the combo routes taken. EDIT: Yeah damage is lower but negligible (we're talking like 100~150 damage lost from the current version). Ragna's damage is lowered as well so I guess this it more just a general thing with all the characters and not just these 2. 3. Scud Punishment now wall-bounces. Damage lowered to 1299 (normal, non-OD version). 4. Growler Field still can "hit" the opponent (Ragna blocks it in the air) and later when it does hit proper, it still sends them flying but not as far as CP1.1. "Hot potato" Growler is pretty good though, especially if you catch Ragnas dash-cancelling their (caught) Dead Spikes. 5. Not strictly Azrael-related but when 6B and Belial Edge clashed the words "DEBCG Sousai Gravity" appeared. No clue what the heck that means however. 6. That's about all. I'm sure someone much more attentive and knowledgeable can provide more info than I. 1. Ooh, so it's not useless now. 2. Dang, Rel and Tao can't afford another hit to their damage really. (Well Rell prolly can. 3.4K from anywhere is pretty stronk.) 3. Wasn't Scuba punishment always 1299 damage? 4. What of Growly's I frames? 5 Sounds awesome, whatever it is. 6. Ya did great! =D
Luminos564 Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 3. Wasn't Scuba punishment always 1299 damage? In CP1.1, Scud Punishment does 1482 (1950 with OD) and as others pointed out, it no longer staggers. However, the version used was only the normal, non-OD one so it's properties might change up a bit in OD. IMO, the damage lost is negligible since I don't think any Azrael player ever used it for its damage. You use it for the automatic 2 weaknesses and the status buff. The stagger lost hurts more but then again with the wall-bounce and better utility as a reversal (others pointed out it is much faster), there might be more potential in there. 4. What of Growly's I frames? Couldn't rightly tell ya. It was used to hit the Ragna all of thrice. The first time it hit him in the air (it was blocked). The second time it hit him when crouching (no counter hit). The thrid time was much the same as it hit Ragna when Azrael recovered from the aerial axe kick follow up. None of those times it was used as a DP/reversal. Whether it does retain its invulnerability frames or no is not going to be answered from this video. IMO, Azrael is so far very much the same. His mid-screen stuff suffers due to TCL no longer having wall-bounce anywhere (plus no oki like natearistata said) and I did not see the player use the 2C combos either (those would need to be explored). However his corner damage with weaknesses is still explosive and as other pointed out in his section, Gustav now staggers on hit (thanks guys). Hot Potato Growler looks surprisingly dangerous since at best it will punish careless projectile tosses or force the opponent to think twice about using them at worst, neither of which is really detrimental to the walking mass of muscle. 6B is also better and has more use besides the occasional surprise anti-air. Still this is all personal opinions and impressions on my part. I could be entirely wrong but from what was shown here, Azrael still appears to be good. 6. Ya did great! =D Thank you.
StylisH Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 I honestly don't mind Az remaining the same. Now if some other characters would remain nearly untouched....
Airk Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 I honestly don't mind Az remaining the same. Now if some other characters would remain nearly untouched.... They're NEVER going to bring the whole cast up to Azrael level; Using him as the balancing point is unrealistic. He should be changed, because clearly they are afraid of making most characters that power level.
NecroTheReaper Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 To be fair, have they even tried making bad characters better? As far as I can see, the only buff they've given to low tier in CP was Bullet's 720 change. You cant say anything is unrealistic when they'd rather make EVERYONE weaker rather than buff bottom tier and tweak top tier.
SoWL Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 To be fair, have they even tried making bad characters better? As far as I can see, the only buff they've given to low tier in CP was Bullet's 720 change. Also, her 5C, her Miquelet, her 3C, her 2C...
Zedar90 Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 To be fair, have they even tried making bad characters better? As far as I can see, the only buff they've given to low tier in CP was Bullet's 720 change. You cant say anything is unrealistic when they'd rather make EVERYONE weaker rather than buff bottom tier and tweak top tier. Do Arc really care if they makes the characters "better"? Do they not only want to add "freshness" to not make the game stale?
NecroTheReaper Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 I dunno exactly how starting to break character design makes things fresh, but it's not a point I'm gonna argue. I'm just sayin there's very few cases where bottom tier suddenly became S tier, but plenty of the reverse. From what I hear, Makoto was gdlk in CS2, and Tsubaki was actually fairly competitive, but since then... not so much. When they can prove a character can be good, taking steps away from that point is stupid.
Airk Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 I dunno exactly how starting to break character design makes things fresh, but it's not a point I'm gonna argue. I'm just sayin there's very few cases where bottom tier suddenly became S tier, but plenty of the reverse. From what I hear, Makoto was gdlk in CS2, and Tsubaki was actually fairly competitive, but since then... not so much. When they can prove a character can be good, taking steps away from that point is stupid. They have buffed bad characters - Izayoi benefitted quite a bit from 1.1 I think. And Rachel didn't stay stuck at CS1 tier, nor did Tsubaki. And you mentioned Bullet as well. It's not that they NEVER do this. Anyway, I'm just sortof saying that saying "Azrael is fine and needs no changes" is basically tantamount to saying "Azrael should be top tier forever!" because it doesn't look very likely that they're going to bring the rest of the cast up to that level. Therefore, I think it's more appropriate to say "No, Azrael needs changes if he's going to be in line with the rest of the cast."
NecroTheReaper Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 No, Azrael doesn't need to be top tier for forever, but that's a flaw that's going to happen with so many varying playstyles. If Azrael wasn't high tier, you'd just choose another high tier character that you think should be nerfed. I'm surprised you're complaining more about Azrael than Hazama, since as far as I know, he's never been bad.
TD Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 azrael definitely isnt the char that everyone should get to. if everyone was top tier like him the game would likely take a turn for the worst. I personally think azrael is on the weaker end of the tops. nevertheless, he is a top tier, and at this point of development there is no refuting that. my point mostly is that if the game was to balance based off a character or tier, it should be A- to B+. these tend to be the most balanced characters in bb. strong, maybe has some bs, but not too strong/no blackholes. everyone's drive has a potential of making them broken, even characters with filler drives like makoto. so the devs always have to be careful with these sorts of things. it is generally agreed that extend was the closest in terms of strength between characters except for the top tiers as usual. someone mentioned before that cp added new mechanics which is true, so now the balance was sort of thrown off, but even still cp is quite balanced to the point where only the bottom tiers cant really win too much without supreme effort. once again my point is that by cp extend we should have a very balanced game, once we are finished being milked for our cash, and all the mechanics have been sorted out and everyone is doing at least -and, at most- 4k off their overdrives.
SoWL Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 once again my point is that by cp extend we should have a very balanced game, once we are finished being milked for our cash, and all the mechanics have been sorted out and everyone is doing at least -and, at most- 4k off their overdrives. Which will just happen to be the most "boring" installment that everyone drops in two months.
JyakotuKurayami Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 Can they make Tsubaki competitive again please? Make her Drive useful god dammit! Even though I just sub Tsubaki, it's a damn shame when in most fights, I don't even attempt to charge because it really doesn't make much of a difference in many of her match ups. At least in CS2, she had the damage and faster charge time to be competitive. Fireball did little for the character, imho. Blah, but like someone said, let's not make this into a complaint thread about Tsubaki.
Airk Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 Which will just happen to be the most "boring" installment that everyone drops in two months. Except me, of course; Whatever other people may do or say, I am NOT a hypocrite about this sort of thing. I didn't even import CP - I played Extend all the way to CP U.S. release. Actually a week or two after, because I didn't even pay for not-on-the-slow-boat shipping for my copy of CP.
D.R.F. Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 Except me, of course; Whatever other people may do or say, I am NOT a hypocrite about this sort of thing. I didn't even import CP - I played Extend all the way to CP U.S. release. Actually a week or two after, because I didn't even pay for not-on-the-slow-boat shipping for my copy of CP. Damn. That is one hell of a way to resist temptation. All my CP, unib and P4U2 is jp, was not willing to wait, not even for a month.
Poultrygeist Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 My prediction is that with the damage lowered and overall nerfs to characters' mixup and neutral tools, we'll be back to another "do long combos because that's the only way to actually hurt people" game but I hope I'm wrong.
D.R.F. Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 My prediction is that with the damage lowered and overall nerfs to characters' mixup and neutral tools, we'll be back to another "do long combos because that's the only way to actually hurt people" game but I hope I'm wrong. Why does that sound like extend?
ArisatoGod Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 Why does that sound like extend?Because extend(The whole CS era to be exact) was exactly like that. Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2
Airk Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 Except that the CP engine explicitly disallows long combos. At least, for certain definitions of "long".
TD Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 Which will just happen to be the most "boring" installment that everyone drops in two months. Part of development is learning from ones mistakes. This is no different. There is of course a chance for the devs to screw up and make the game boring, just as there is a chance of it still being fun and balanced. Now I cannot say for sure whether mistakes will be learned from but neither can anyone else at the moment. Regardless, it will be interesting looking forward to what they come up with in the end.
Justice7541 Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 My prediction is that with the damage lowered and overall nerfs to characters' mixup and neutral tools, we'll be back to another "do long combos because that's the only way to actually hurt people" game but I hope I'm wrong. UNIEL has way less mixup (almost none unless you're in Gordeau in fact) and people still find ways to open people up without the match ending in time over TOO often. You don't need unreactable 50/50s on every character to make a game flow quickly, although it does help.
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