[CP] Azrael - Gameplay Discussion v.2 (Discuss Videos/Combos/Questions/etc.)

[Lucalibur]

That is true, but it's really a case of being able to tell if the enemy is at a good height for it during the combo. In a lot of situations you can slap that J.A in and get away with it, but there ARE some combos where J.A either puts you out of range or actually burns enough time for J.B to not combo into J.C(yes it happens). It's basically a 'good judgment' thing in those situations and you just gotta decide at the time if it's gonn work or not, but there is no reason not to go for it if it will work.

[alexbib]

Thanks a lot for the help guys.  So I've practiced it a little bit, and if I do everything as fast as possible it seems to make me fall very fast during j.D so it whiffs.  Could that be because I'm too early and the jump cancel doesn't take place?  If I press 8 during j.C and wait a little bit before pressing D I can sometimes get it properly.

[LegendaryRath]

Thanks a lot for the help guys.  So I've practiced it a little bit, and if I do everything as fast as possible it seems to make me fall very fast during j.D so it whiffs.  Could that be because I'm too early and the jump cancel doesn't take place?  If I press 8 during j.C and wait a little bit before pressing D I can sometimes get it properly.

You need to visibly see azrael jump before inputting j.D. Hope that helps.

[TheArm05]

Don't you have to use the j.ABC route for the 5A > Aerial combos?  I usually go for j.BC off of 5B but I don't trust 5A > j.B. 

 

Alex Azrael j.C has CRAZY hitstun.  You can almost always get away with delaying j.D unless the combo is exceptionally long.  As long as you have the opponent slightly above you j.D shouldn't whiff. 

It is really just a matter of getting use to the correct height for his air combo.  Keep practicing you will get it.

[Verimeloni]

I did it guys, I beat Unlimited Mars (course C) with Az.

 

2 words: Frame. Traps.

 

And 3C.

[natearistata]

Don't you have to use the j.ABC route for the 5A > Aerial combos?  I usually go for j.BC off of 5B but I don't trust 5A > j.B. 

 

Alex Azrael j.C has CRAZY hitstun.  You can almost always get away with delaying j.D unless the combo is exceptionally long.  As long as you have the opponent slightly above you j.D shouldn't whiff. 

It is really just a matter of getting use to the correct height for his air combo.  Keep practicing you will get it.

It is required to use a j.A first if you're jump canceling 5A, yeah, but even then you could just do j.A j.C jc j.D.

[Warhound]

Okay, so I know I come back here every other day to complain, but I think I have pinpointed why I'm so awful (besides dropping combos, no ability to hit confirm and an inability to fight Tager in general).

 

My pressure. My pressure is so god-awful, so fragmented, that apparently you can just throw out a super counter, or one of Tager's throws and you can pretty much beat me.

 

I don't know which strings are air tight, or is there really not much Az can do, and we just have to be unpredictable?

[RentalBlackout]

No matter which character you play, it pays to be unpredictable.

Sometimes you'll see Dogura do 2B>6D, like here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHnlnkvE-2Y at around 13 seconds in the video. Is it air tight? Definitely not, but it works because it's not something he does repeatedly. In fact when you watch Dogura play it doesn't seem like he has an inherit pattern when he pressures people, and that's what makes Azrael scary. Also Fenrich, the Jin player, does it well himself not to do the same strings over and over again.

Why don't people just interrupt Dogura all the time in between 2B>6D? Well that's because they don't know if he's going to do that. He could've done 2B>Gustaf, 2B>2C, or even 2B>2D(if you're in range) instead since those are all airtight on normal block. So why not do 2B>Gustaf all the time? Well if you do it all the time then people can just IB the Gustaf and you'll be in disadvantage(-2). So my point being, don't be too predictable, it's nice to do airtight strings but even those have their weaknesses.

Be creative with your pressure and generally you'll be fine, and never be too predictable(something I have problems with sometimes). Be too predictable and Tager becomes a really hard opponent(those 360s and 720s hurt). Go look at Azrael's revolver action table at the end of http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=Azrael_Frame_Data_(BBCP) and find out what you can do after each move. Play around with jump cancelling and instant air dashing, doing your mixup way earlier in a string and even just plain up dashing through the opponent for a crossup. One thing to note though I don't think you can actually cancel 5C into 5D or 2D like the wiki says.

Also if you wanna see how "safe" each string is there's a section in the Strategy Thread over here that talks about Pressure Strings, so you can have a look at that.

[Verimeloni]

My pressure. My pressure is so god-awful, so fragmented, that apparently you can just throw out a super counter, or one of Tager's throws and you can pretty much beat me.

 

I don't know which strings are air tight, or is there really not much Az can do, and we just have to be unpredictable?

That is more a trait of Azrael himself, being link-based and all that. We all like to boast about his damage but on the other hand you have to make good use of moves like 5A and j.A against tougher opponents. Good players know how to block and when to use reversal moves unlike computer AI which randomly tries to retaliate with 15f+ startup moves between 5B and 2C. Plus there are many Azrael players online so people know how to play against him.

 

Try out stuff like 5A > 2A , 5D or 66 > jc. j.A , (crossup) j.B > 2B > TCL, play with his forward dash jump canceling, if people block your Gustaf or Valiant > RC 6D.

[Verimeloni]

Double-post bump, Arcadia says Azrael is S tier along with Koko and Litchi and the rest of the cast is A (except Makoto...)

 

Thoughts? I don't think by not getting nerfed fixes all his bad MUs. Like yeah Hazama can't do j.C loops so easily anymore but he still has the chain, right?

[Lucalibur]

Double-post bump, Arcadia says Azrael is S tier along with Koko and Litchi and the rest of the cast is A (except Makoto...)

 

Thoughts?

Eh, total bullshit. That is just me, though.

[greatfernman]

Double-post bump, Arcadia says Azrael is S tier along with Koko and Litchi and the rest of the cast is A (except Makoto...)

Sentinel input change is big. Dash TK Sentinel is godlike. Practically everyone else got nerfed and Azrael's always been one of the better characters anyway. So while I don't think he's as strong as Kokonoe, I sitll think he deserves S, or at least high A

[LegendaryRath]

Azrael is definitely top in 1.1 imo. Just like greatfernman said, he was already strong and only got better, while most other characters got a little worse.

 

I think that arcadia tier list MIGHT have been for pre-patch BBCP. They also released a P4U2 tier list, which was pre 1.1. It was solely based on the players at that specific arcade, anyway, so it probably isn't the most credible thing ever.

 

Also, IDGAF about double posting. If you ever have anything to say, ask, talk-about, or whatever, don't hesitate to post.

[Verimeloni]

The one we're talking about is definitely for 1.1, here's the original link: http://shoryuken.com/2014/05/02/whos-top-tier-check-out-the-latest-character-rankings-from-arcadia-for-super-street-fighter-iv-arcade-edition-ver-2012-guilty-gear-xrd-sign-persona-4-the-ultimax-ultra-suplex-hold-and-more/

 

Edit: it's kinda big feat actually to balance 26 characters into just 3 tiers, especially when MUs differ so vastly in BlazBlue. If only Mori would take his head out of his ass and buff Makoto...

 

That is if Arcadia can be trusted, next some Makoto player wins EVO or something.

[natearistata]

I believe Azrael could be S tier in 1.1, absolutely.

 

But that Arcadia tier list is utter shit. You're gonna tell me characters like Amane, Bullet, and Tager belong in the same tier as Taokaka, Hazama, and Mu?

 

Nah.

[LegendaryRath]

The P4U2 tier list was based solely on wins from people playing at Arcadia. If there just happened to be a Tsubaki god there, then they would have said she was S tier. It's just an early list anyway. Lets give the patch time to develop before jumping to any real conclusions.

[Warhound]

"S Tier" to me always meant things like CT Nu or CS Vanilla Litchi. Azrael is strong in the right hands sure, but he seem to (and I will admit total wrongness on my part if I am) have much in the way of total roflstomp MUs besides MAYBE Tager, but even then, I feel like it's just a weird MU, not a completely advantageous one.

[Yuhoke]

I got inspired to learn those double weakpoint combos with Hornet Bunker (weakpoint) shown in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKms8y7kGw8&t=50s

I've practiced them a bit and can pull them, though inconsistently. Have you guys practiced these combos? What sort of timing do you use on 214D>j.C>AD>j.C>236D part? The first j.C as soon as possible and then delay the second until you're close to the ground? Share your thoughts! 

[TheArm05]

For the first j.C I just do it while Az is rising. I don't do it instantly but it is well before the height of the jump.

 

After the airdash just do the second j.C when Az is clearly on the other side of the character so that he turns around for the j.C.  You can't really do it too early as long as Azrael does it in the right direction since j.C with Hornet active has like forever hitstun.

[Verimeloni]

You can't be too close to your opponent when you hit them with Hornet or you can't get the second j.C to connect in time.

[Fatalis]

From what I've heard, it seems like Az's is very strong in 1.1, especially because he got some slight buffs while everyone else got nerfs.

 

Also TK Sentinel seems godlike.

 

http://youtu.be/cubPJfm2b2g?t=1m36s

[Kinkuli]

http://www.twitch.tv/central804/b/525412241?t=52m58s dash sentinel at it's finest! (Also a shameless self-plug!)

[Verimeloni]

What's the easiest input for dash Sentinel? 662147C?

[LordSpectreX]

What's the easiest input for dash Sentinel? 662147C?

 

Imagine it would actually just be 66432147. Do 6 then do a basic kind of rotate like a 360.

[RentalBlackout]

If you know you are going to cross up, you can also 23669C, as someone else mentioned before (I don't remember who). Only works when crossing up though.