[Xrd] Venom Gameplay Discussion

[xxteefxx]

@snowmonkeyfunky  go ahead man, feel free and have fun. hope it was helpful.

 

@DaiandOh  boy you sure have an attitude (wink). thank you. yes ofcourse it's sloppy, i am not graduating from GG school and that is my final Project. it's just a video DaiandOh, i really care less about the presentation and more of the content. i would agree regarding the block and how it might be distracting(thus i promised the explanatory), but when a person like me live day to day bases of 10 dollars a week, school and work, then surely equipment is an issue haha. recorded by the Tablet i borrowed, and such device doesnt have editing nor subs nor narration...etc. but i guess your smart just like others and got the idea of the block setups? it is just i wasnt able to both record and Take control of the stick to block each movement. had to sacrifice.

point noted though, maybe in the future i will re work that, if i ever had time

so by means....just watch and enjoy it haha

 

now regarding the setups and vid content:

 

-I kind of disagree. i find a 1/4 for a setup that can truly capitalize far more pressure is way worth it. this is more of Vanilla Venom mentality hybird with Acent core. so truly Meter IS essential is you dont have a f+HS knockdown setup.one though arent that of much use, like the QV+P Charge~ YRC. the pressure after is only to options of either High or low with few pressure string option compared to other setups. dont forget the time freeze is a Bless!! you can react IF opponent tried anything fishy as well as open the bracket of more options windows.

 

-I pretty much believe those are Basics. I think i've been playing Venom for years now(considering i didnt have enough chance with PLus R, Sadly), if it went less basic then that then truly no point to even consider venom. if one dont fathom that Venom is a tech Extensive, then it's pointless to even try to master venom. Technicality should not be a judge.

 

There are couple more basic stuff i missed. so maybe i shall re record all this and try to edit with the missing stuff. other basics i forgot to mention would be:

 

-In corner, Faking air dash mix up ofcourse, probably after K ball ,AJ.K. d+D,~CRs, dash in S(2-3 hits), jS, jHS,jD, f+hs~Ball summon.

unlike Accent core, works only on bigger chars. missing around for a better use. though cant find any for now. used to be VERY crucial, but have to live with it i guess for now.

- K ball~teleport or s Ball ~teleport into Air D setups are usefull

-Hard knockdowns, Ball summon into qcf,hcb+S

-Multiple Ball setup (HS > K > P) and how to use it

 

 

 

anyways, thank you all for reading. i shall start writing the explanatory. if there are any suggestions, stuff we can improve on? or even more stuff were we can breack venom down even further, then completely feel free too. hope i was of any use.

PS: the re make of the vid is in consideration, so thank you DaiandOh. will look into this matter.

[xxteefxx]

Basic Combo  part 1 Explanatory:

 

 

 

1- Mid Screen, 2k,CS.S(3), IAD S,HS,D , 6HS~ Pball, Kball /  Dash in Jump K (Hit ball) before Landing S/ cs.S,HS~ CR.S , Dash in 2K, s.S, 2D~ P Ball

 

So basically the combo is divided into two segments. the first being the common easiest ending with P ball, K Ball setup . done in corner so u can have a follow up of Oki pressure. the combo can ofcourse be prolonged if it was done in corner or close to corner, by adding either another loop of IAD S,HS,D (against big char), or QV+s, P hit ball into IAD S,HS,D or just QV+k, 6P,6HS~ Formations.

 

Second part is the crucial part. learnign P ball, Kball into dash jump K, before landing S is very important. both hits the Ball, Plays a mind Game of either High Block(Landing S), or simply dash jump in K, into Low, or even Dash in Jump K(hit ball) into Air dash S,HS~ mix ups/combos.

 

third part is the most important to keep the Oki and pressure Up. Try to master S,HS~CR.S because truly it's one of the most solid pressure venom can have in this game.  i shall explain the charger time later as it's in the video. but for now as a basic thumb rule, P Ball into this trick >> S,HS~ CR will work as if it's Accent core S Ball into 2.S.

 

to have this effect as seen in the video, then should be done after either Hard knock down formation P ball, K ball. or simply Pressure of Set up P Ball (shall be shown later in the video as well)

 

 

2-Close 2K, cs.S(2), 2D~ P ball. Dash in hit p Ball with "P", Quickly summon P Ball.  2S~ Stinger Aim HS~YRC , teleport.

 

the whole idea is to have mix ups or high and low from mid screen. the use of meter in here is not that worth it for everytime, THOUGH it's a defenit guarenteed pressure/ Mix up. On block it's considered two seperate hits if Venom TP into S. the S will be the over head, the ball will follow up after making a sequence pressure. aside from this note, venom will have High low Mix ups still with this fun Setup.

 

 

3- after  not down in corner (example in vid : 2k,cs.S,2D ~ P ball).  P hit Ball, RE summon P Ball/ Dash in P (hit opponent and ball)~ k Ball / 2S~Stinger AIm HS~ (YRC), K Ball.

 

the whole idea of the setup is NOT that it connects!!  But rather to system your opponent after true pressure. Thumb Rules of Venom are : A. Go watch Fino and Other venom Player.  B. Force your opponent to believe Venoms Bullshit nonsense.

Note: this pressure is escapable by small chars with simply crouching the first P ball. THOUGH! they will be under the subject of QVS Loops in that case, so a tit for tat is fine to gamble with in that case.

 

by means once you scare opponent to systematically forced to block and guess with other true setup, start experimenting on them with other kinds of pressure. this is a good example due to the fact that I am in perfect distance for (Air throw, jump in place Hit ball into Further more pressure, Jump in place D or distance block, and Carcass Raid HS Screen pressure/mind game)

so it's not bad. feel free to experiment , feel free to Exclude the Stinger Aim(YRC) specially if you dont have meter. feel free to use any other mentioned or non mentioned setups instead

 

 

4- in corner Throw. Dash in HS~ QV+K, K,6P,6HS~ QV+k, P summon Ball. / Hit Ball with P, TELEPORT S

 

just an extra Oki ball formation to consider.

 

 

5- In corner, 2K,cs.S(2),2D~ P ball. Dash in hit ball with "P" ~ P Ball. 2.S~ Stinger Aim S(YRC). hit ball with P~ IAD Pressure.

 

self explanatory. i think this is the most useful meter YRC waste i can find for an oki. you can literally preform anything u want after. you can mind game in QV block pressure, you can simply dash into S,HS~ CRS (though u wont initially dash in with P at the very first ball summon), or simply up or high Mix ups (specially 2D~CR.S, cs.S~ J K,JS,JHS,jD, 6+HS on big char)

 

PS: the pressure done at the end is a known CR pressure Loop. you can also mix up dash 2K instead of 2S~CRHS.

 

6- Ball formation:

 

A) S,HS (those where the very first two)

B) Classical P,K dash in hit ball with P~ resummon any ball

C) alternating sequence. the ones used i think where HS,P and S,P. you can alter with also K,HS and hmm....i think S,K? dont remember

 

another non mentioned form, which is similar to classical D,HS,P ball formation :  HS,K,P (Hit ball with P) resummon HS or P ball. both has completely different effect. good part is that this Tri formation can be teleported to. used in pressure where Hit the ball will only collide two balls only leaving the buttom one free for 2S~stingers setups.

 

 

7- Mid screen Throw. dash in HS~ QV+P(slightly charge and then release), K Ball. Hit QV ball with P. dash in Jump quick with S.

 

self explanatory. just to show extra possible Oki potential

 

 

8- the P ball setup into dash in S,HS~ CR.S followed by whatever of your mix up choice

 

the first example is to show the connection of the setup. the second example was supposed to be a BLOCK string example. ofcourse the block string is a subject to interruption, but i dont think opponent would like to mash easily when it comes to guarenteed pressure like that, so un rewarding for them that is for sure (that is the purpose actually)

 

 

9- loops of S,HS~ CR.S

 

it's not hard at all. if you think it;s then, put ur ass in practice mode and learn more tech for venom . i would say do it as if your doing regular 6P,6HS~ CR.S

these setups has been their since reload i presume if not even before? the buffering was always open anyways. the whole trick is to quickly and sequencly press,S,HS so you can charge 2 as sufficient as much.

 

try to look for the input on the sides in the video, i sequencially S,HS and then 2 and hold it. toward the end frames of HS, simply 8S for CR.S. not a biggy, not hard at all, venom players should already be familiar with this if your an old veteran. if your new to venom, then practice this as a basic rule for Venom Buffering system

 

- Air dash (Start holding down) S,HS . as soon as u land, Leave 2, press quickly S (1 hit only) then 8S. if done correctly you will preform the CR pressure done in example /combo number (5) in the video

-Second practice would be. On block , Cs.S(3). as soon as you press S against opponent, charge down . the tap of down should be sequentially done fast as if your Plinking (just like the above example). toward the end of the third S hit, simply UP + S

-third would be a ball summon into cr.S~ stinger aim

 

get those down, and you will get 6P,6HS~ CR or S,HS ~ CR easy

 

 

10- Block setup QV+K~ jump in place P,HS, land CR.HS

 

i apologize for not being able to gaurd correctly due to holding the cam. well not the first combo to not guard, though it was crucial here for the eyes to understand.

 

simply Put, it's one of QV pressures that is slightly safer due to distance it will put Venom in. yet manitaining a simple pressure.  PS: Fino favors this pressure i guess?

[King33]

This is awesome. Thx for the work. Can u explain how you get the j.s to come out after you hit the k-ball in the first example. Everytime I tried it the j.s wouldn't come out before I landed

[GodPress]

This is awesome. Thx for the work. Can u explain how you get the j.s to come out after you hit the k-ball in the first example. Everytime I tried it the j.s wouldn't come out before I landed

The j.K is done immediately, should give you enough time to get the descending j.S. Practice and you'll get it.

[Dime_x]

Could we possibly make a thread on ball formations? Ive been identifying good ones in my play in training mode and in japanese play, but a place to discuss the formations and find out which ones are good and which ones are more theory fighter...would be nice.

As an example... Some 2 ball formations that have possibilities (if anyone would like to critique them)

P > charge HS >j.p

(Puts 2 balls on screen midrange from venom, then he teleports to them and his j.p hits and activates both of them in one move)

Then there's the:

S > H > immediate p pattern that fino loves to spam and has good ground and air coverage (toss a P > p right afterwards to loosely cover the entire screen)

A great screen coverage 3 ball formation would be something like:

S > H > P > p

Capitals are ball sets, lowercase is button used to hit balls. Sorry if my notation for venom is wack but i cant remember reading his ball formations anywhere so I'm just making up my own notation for this post.

A separate thread to discuss this would be nice though

[Justice7541]

Could we possibly make a thread on ball formations? Ive been identifying good ones in my play in training mode and in japanese play, but a place to discuss the formations and find out which ones are good and which ones are more theory fighter...would be nice.

As an example... Some 2 ball formations that have possibilities (if anyone would like to critique them)

P > charge HS >j.p

(Puts 2 balls on screen midrange from venom, then he teleports to them and his j.p hits and activates both of them in one move)

Then there's the:

S > H > immediate p pattern that fino loves to spam and has good ground and air coverage (toss a P > p right afterwards to loosely cover the entire screen)

A great screen coverage 3 ball formation would be something like:

S > H > P > p

Capitals are ball sets, lowercase is button used to hit balls. Sorry if my notation for venom is wack but i cant remember reading his ball formations anywhere so I'm just making up my own notation for this post.

A separate thread to discuss this would be nice though

 

That might not be a bad idea in general, but in the meantime, a couple of others I've found are:

 

P > [K] > j.K = two balls moving diagonally forward.  Venom hits the further-forward K ball then falls into the further-back P ball a few frames later so you get a pretty nice stagger.  Time required is about the equivalent of a 3-ball setup so it's more of a midrange zoning pattern rather than something you do on oki I think.

 

P > K > 5P> jump forward j.K = Venom hits the lower P ball forward then jumps forward and hits the higher K ball downward.  Faster than the above and you have time to do another jump-in the way down from hitting the K ball, but I think they can airthrow or DP or do other stuff if they can avoid the P ball.

 

P > S > H > immediate 5P = 3 ball zoning pattern.  Goes in 3 directions so it basically covers the entire screen.

 

[K} > j.D = Ball goes down at a pretty steep angle then back up.  Looks kind of like Carcass Ride.

 

K > S > H > immediate 5P = two ball pattern.  You get the S > H pattern initially and K ball goes a bit further out so it doesn't trigger immediately.  If they try to close in on you the two moving balls will keep them in block and then you can use the still-placed K ball to do teleports and stuff.  If they stay at range the moving balls will eventually hit the K ball and make a 3-ball pattern that covers a lot of space.

[Dime_x]

Awesome

All of those seem of benefit.

Perhaps if there becomes a ball formation thread, these posts can db moved there?

Well in the interim:

1 ball:

P > 5P = most standard and easy offensive formation, abused by isamu to get in, he generally likes 1 ball patterns using 5P or j.P or j.K to hit.

S > jump back S = defensive way to cover the ground quickly and setup zoning via looking for the 6p AA if they jump over the ball, or setup a ball if they stay put.

S > jump back D = defensive wall to get out a P set?

P > 6P = probably way to dangerous to do in any consistent fashion, but against predictable aerial abusers, looks like it will cover the long range air diagonal, well.

2 ball:

P > K > j.8P,j.K = pk set then neutral jump j.p on the way up and j.k on the way down in the same jump. Ive seen isamu and fino use this pattern multiple times. Covers the air and the ground but looks more theory than actually good imho. Will need time to try and apply.

[TittyFOFO]

You can make a new thread whenever you want. I'm sure Dai won't mind as long as it's useful.

[DaiAndOh]

It was something I thought about doing (especially seeing your thread in the AC days) , but now that there's demand, I'll get to it later today.

Sunday is usually the day I can get to doing mod work....also going to respond to Teef in next post.

[DaiAndOh]

 

 

Response

 

Ok  first thing to note is that the video quality is fine, I'm not critiquing the video quality footage or anything.

My main argument there is that you you put out a bunch of stuff, most of which is not basic and takes a lot of effort (basic is something like c.S(2), 2S, S Stinger YRC for instance, or basic K Ball oki, etc., and while you say that Venom has a high ceiling of basics, which is somewhat true, you can still simplify things a lot...) and threw it out there without explanation or context, in addition to not even setting CPUs to block raw balls, there'd be 0 reason that any half mid level opponent would not block those.

 

That said, there's explanation now, so let's get into that.

 

Basic Combo  part 1 Explanatory:

 

 

 

Would have appreciate using our terminology , also you should add this list to the video description, not everyone sadly is going to find dustloop.

1. Again while I wouldn't call the charge basic, this is a great setup to have down. Would have preferred to see the other mixup options in the video. 

 

2. This is an interesting mixup if you can get it, but I feel the gaps might be too big in it? K Ball Oki feels a lot more solid in this case, and you won't need to spend the 25 meter to try it.. Maybe just skip the first part and just set, meaty 2S, then go for it? 

 

3. As you said, this relies on your opponent's respect. You could just go straight into just oki here (and again, you're having them get hit in cases where they should be blocking because there's no mixup until the end, where you probably should have either jumped forward and gone low or airdash, it all comes down to K Ball oki).

 

4. This is a nice pressure starter, sequence after was kind of bleh, good concept that can be refined.

5. This is similar to #2 here. Because it's corner based, it might be more reliable and again, I would have liked to have seen blocking opponent until the actual mixup occurs.

6. Zoning sequence, first two are standard, not as big a fan of the third given how far the balls are before they spread and become active but it's not useless.

 

7.While charge QV stuff is amusing, it's inferior to getting better corner carry off your combos + oki.

 

8. If it's a block string, again, take 5 seconds and set the computer to BLOCK. It's that easy.

 

9. Yes, despite what you say, it is hard. And many people here are new to GG, let alone Venom. However, yes, if you can't (like me!) you should practice it. Simple as that. Although again, you should have had them blocking this, unless you were going to do the setup with 5HS hitting the ball. Which you didn't.

10. uhhhh what? Could you show me a video example of Fino doing something similar to this? QV is -4 on block, that looks petty unreliable to try at a glance...

 

Well that's one video...

[Dime_x]

I dont understand the third and fourth zoning pattern in the teef video:

He does P > K walk forward 5P re summon ball.

Which effectively summons and activates 3 5P balls for great screen coverage with only one 5P of recovery. I can get the P and K balls to hit with one 5P into resummon, but i cant get the resummon ball to get hit as well... Is there a trick? Is it spacing or timing or a certain ball to resummon?

[SectumSsempra]

I'd without question agree, you can't say "i've been playing venom for years" & "Ive been playing for 3 days"

 

It's nice tech and all, and it may be useful and interesting but by no means is any of that basic. Basic is usually in tune with the words introductory, and in fighting games I usually consider it like a bare minimum to play 1 character vs another, not complex setups or techniques, and its not a knock on your skill, you know what your doing, but its not a basic set of skills.

 

Also DaiAndOh, if I'm not mistaken the mis-communication is in that he used these set ups, and recorded them as the computer, and his hands weren't free because he was recording the video with a tablet in hands, but if im not mistaken the p1 character can be set on autoblock as well.

 

Some cool things there none the less, while I will practice some things there, venom isn't my primary character and most of what he does isn't simple unless you play him already

Edited December 22, 2014 by SectumSsempra

[DaiAndOh]

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?/topic/10092-xrd-venom-formations-and-ball-setups-thread/ Made the new thread as requested. Added in the contributions as well as a couple of things from my own findings. I'll try to write up some oki stuff for it on my lunch break tomorrow -_-

[xxteefxx]

To everyone. thank you all for replying. DaiandOh brought to my attention i might be confusing people with my video and explanatory? if so i apologize to all, i shall do my best to help explain.

 

@ DaiAndOh

 

Hey. thank you for replying. before i continue talking, please dont take anything i say offensively at all. i mean you no harm, as i respect everyone the same. so take what i will say with a friendly approach.

 

i Truly dont know from where to start on replying . whether on your Critique that  Truly proved you are just answering because u just want to reply. or the fact that the Word Basic is bugging you as well as the block, so ur further trying to look into the slightest of details to make it look bad.

 

So here's my reply dear DaiAndOh. If u didnt get the concept of the video, dont bash or critique when u arent well informed. Ask maybe before reacting, deep breath and think first the hell is going on and ask question .

 

so first off, please calm down/

secondly, please re read what i wrote in the first reply? if not i shall somehow re type it here.

third, lets start

 

I apologize for the terminology. i shall look into the matter and fix it. yes thank you as well, Shall put it in the video, as well as will do my best this weekend to re record this CLEANLY , Editing and video recording. will somehow use my CPU this time. though no promises! life is too much complicated already. but will do my best

 

 

BASIC:

 

Summary sentence. Basic means the Pillar of the foundation that will help you get the complex.

the term your Looking for is, EASY. thus dont bother with Venom if you want to progress competitively. or else stop complaining and learn his trade and techs.

EASY is not  BASIC

 

Easy is, throw in corner, f+p,f+HS~ DHM

Basic is, THrow in corner, HS~QVK, s.K,f+P,f+HS~ K BAll or multiple summon Oki

ADVANCED IS: Throw in corner, HS~CR.s, J.S,J.HS,J.D, Land f+HS~ QVS, P~ IAD S,HS,D, Land f+HS~ Kball oki setups.

 

You will require the BASIC, to do the Advanced. take my concept with a Grain of salt, if it doesnt suite you then i apologize, but Technicality means nothing really....you can gain it easy through playing and practice, achievable by anyone. this is venom, LEARN HIM or else the player wont be ever Affective at all.

 

in addition to not even setting CPUs to block raw balls

 

Not sure what part your not getting man. anyone watching this video can understand that whether or not it's a block string, it's for the sake to be informative of open capabilities. if your confused about whether it's a block string or not, then the counter is working and connecting. it means opponent probably has and forced to block the whole sequence. when there's a gap of counter, then go figure , you probably seen that it's oki right? i am sure you got what it's

 

so stop complaining, because again, i am holding the tablet to record, i cannot use BOTH tablet and stick/pad to block sequences. i am sure people in here are smart, because lots already got the idea of the setups as whole and not so broken down like what u are doing. so just let it go man until i re record the video, cool? lol....just let it go

 

 

Explanatory:

 

BEFORE ANYTHING. THIS IS A BASIC SETUP BASE VIDEO. TEACHES BASICS(what i think is), COVERING THE MOST POSSIBLE SIMPLE POTENTIALS OF SETUPS/MIXUPS/OKI's. NOT A COMBO VIDEO AT ALL. SIMPLY HAS COMBO'S IN IT, BUT NOT MADE FOR THAT PURPOSE. RATHER, FOCUSES ON THE SETUPS

 

 

before i further elaborate, what are u critiquing exactly? i am starting to feel that you just as if you have THE perfect setup and comparing them all to it? not sure what exactly is a waste and what is not to you.

 

Venom = ARSENAL

Venom = KNOW the ARSENAL and mix them up to confuse opponent

VENOM = Learn The ARSENAL because it's truly annoying that each char setups can be different sometimes

Venom = Learn Arsenal because the more you are maliable with setups, the better reaction u will get. and that's what u need. to have fun with a char with multiple tricks or else u will get BORED out of ur mind lol. 

 

so just ease there man cause truly not sure what you are doing. but again, thank you anyways. and i shall go with the flow

 

 

1- no charging is not hard, practice it, u can do it. learn it, spend time and once you get it, it wont be hard, i promise. Not sure what other mixup options you refering too, but the entire video full of basic mix up options, you pick whichever u like or even add yours.

the video is not meant to show off, it's simply to teach others how venom is played and what capabilities he can have

 

ps: if you or anyone need help with stuff like charging and how to preform it, please tell i can promise to help whether ur a pad or stick player. no shame, it been passed to me from others,  time in labs and years of fighting games, the least i can do is pass whatever knowledge i have to others and help if they are truly interested.

 

 

2- the idea is that this will give you TP option, wither to come down with TP~S/K, or TP Airdash to confuse opponent.

the gap is not that big at all, opponent cant escape unless you did the IAD and player read it. other than that, THE KEY setup is safe.

the key setup is >> After knock down, P ball summon, Dash in hit P, resummon P~ Stniger aim HS(YRC),  TP

yes it costs a meter. Yes can be worth it, and yes cannot be worth it. though got other setups like this? if u do, then The one you will mention will be true basic and essential. i cant find any setups aside from the ones i mentioned and will mention, that can use TP safley and open up more Mix up options and confusion.

 

this is not a combo video Dai, this is more of possibilities.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAeSUS30NSc#t=55s

 

watch starting min 2:30. it will combine both examples 2,5 with 1 and 4.

 

3- Blocking: ....i swear i am recording with my hands while CPU playing my recording. unless there's an Option that can make ME AUTO BLOCK on my own, then i will do my best to see what i can do. my apologies

though stop it! you can understand and i know u do...so just Stop! lol....

 

ps: not sure what u meant in here. yes ofcourse it all comes down to K ball oki IN THIS setup, but not in general? so i am kind of confused if you can elaborate please.

 

 

4- pressure starter? this is a Throw possibility with TP option and mix ups. i dont care about the sequence after, i am simply showing the MIX UP tech/Oki.

this is not a combo video if that is what you are looking for. this is BASICS and possibilities. so i am not quite sure what u been critiquing so far, but all the points you mentioned seems that you are confused about the nature of the vid. and in that case, it's simply tech showing and basic explanatory to setups and others.

 

the pressure done after DOESNT MEAN THAT IS WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO AFTER THE SETUP. not at all. simply showing that after the setups, u can input WHATEVER YOU WOULD LIKE. in fact, the video doesnt work like that my friend. it's simply all techs, you pick what you want and do it be cause it will teach the essence of simplifying venom while grasping as much as possible mix ups.

how about that?

 

5- Correct. Both 2 and 5 are actually reliable. 2 is subject to distance, 5 is more of corner pressure.

 

something interesting, u judged the previous follow ups pressure and didnt on this one? come on man...lol..... but anyways, the goal is the setups. are u aware that  more chars can break the pressure after in here rather than the example in number 4? 

 

 

6- if your not a fan of alternating ball formation, then start being one. it's one of the most useful thing venom can have if used in the correct times. 

hmm the alternating setups i showed truly are one of the most useful as they dominate the screen in two different portions. making them ACTIVATE at different time. works even better with 3 formation. i shall actually post examples later on why it's usefull

 

old venom best alternators where Still THOSE two as well as some others. sadly they took away Aim Cancel, it made instant ball collision unavaliable in this game. but anyways to get back to the subject matter. these two alternators are for example Anti I-No, Potemkin due to collide confusion, in comparison to other ball setups.

 

so get used to them because they are useful as fuck!

 

7-Agreed. not as strong. but it's a possibility. the actual purpose of QV charge is when in long distance to have a ball formation pressure after words. whether YRC QV or not.

best used against chars like I-NO, POT,ElPhlet and Ramlethal for example. but again, it's just like icing on cake. taste good, but not as useful nor as good as the cake itself.

 

 

 

8-i shall not explain this again.

but hmmm...what is bothering you? it can go for both combo or block pressure. isnt that is the purpose of the Oki and setups? to hit opponent with them for re Oki and further pressure or knockdowns? so what is bothering you that much anyways? lol really....

 

 

9-I disagree. i think u just didnt figure out its trick that is all. not hard at all. 

 

 

10- .... fair enough

 

this is your Bible. to every Venom player in here who wants to inquire further more advancment and understanding of venom gameplay. This is one of the most useful videos u will find. Fino is amazing to watch, so always look Fino up

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAeSUS30NSc#t=55s

 

Time for QVS setup: starting 00:00:50

 

Explanation: QVK -4 frames? that is nothing....that is Lag time lol. distance will make it safe lol. besides, u dont always do safe things everytime. U HAVE TO RISK the different mixups, or else you wont be able to cause much confusion and pressure against opponent with venom.

 

god bless both QVS and QVK. use em in your Pressure absolutley! and to have a CH chance to for a small risk or stupid reversals? absolutley!

PS: all about the Distance. 

[xxteefxx]

I'd without question agree, you can't say "i've been playing venom for years" & "Ive been playing for 3 days"

 

It's nice tech and all, and it may be useful and interesting but by no means is any of that basic. Basic is usually in tune with the words introductory, and in fighting games I usually consider it like a bare minimum to play 1 character vs another, not complex setups or techniques, and its not a knock on your skill, you know what your doing, but its not a basic set of skills.

 

Also DaiAndOh, if I'm not mistaken the mis-communication is in that he used these set ups, and recorded them as the computer, and his hands weren't free because he was recording the video with a tablet in hands, but if im not mistaken the p1 character can be set on autoblock as well.

 

Some cool things there none the less, while I will practice some things there, venom isn't my primary character and most of what he does isn't simple unless you play him already

 

 

fair enough.

 

hope u have fun in your practice and that anything i mention was useful or helpful by anymeans. thank you as well

[xxteefxx]

I dont understand the third and fourth zoning pattern in the teef video:

He does P > K walk forward 5P re summon ball.

Which effectively summons and activates 3 5P balls for great screen coverage with only one 5P of recovery. I can get the P and K balls to hit with one 5P into resummon, but i cant get the resummon ball to get hit as well... Is there a trick? Is it spacing or timing or a certain ball to resummon?

Hey Dime_X

 

sure i shall mention ALternating Ball patterns in the Ball formation section.

 

Alternating balls is when you throw out two Ball summons. when u try to collide them by a 5P, the 5P will only hit one ball only without colliding with the other. to ACTIVATE the collision, you preform another summon of another ball setup.  when you preform other ball setup, or in general re summon a ball after 5P quickly, it will simply bring the non activated ball closer to the one you hit with 5 P. thus it will collide later on.

the reason they are called alternate, is that basically for this to work, you need to different formation and you alter between them. can work with 2 balls > 2 balls / or 3 Balls > 1 Ball / or 3 Balls > 2 balls...etc

 

so in this example, one formation covers air more, and the other covers ground and bounce. the first is more forward, the second is more backward

 

they are: HS, P (first formation)

               S, P (second formation)

 

to do it, just simply input the following >>   HSBall , P Ball / 5p to hit ball, then quickly SBall , P ball

[Dime_x]

Hey Dime_X

sure i shall mention ALternating Ball patterns in the Ball formation section.

Alternating balls is when you throw out two Ball summons. when u try to collide them by a 5P, the 5P will only hit one ball only without colliding with the other. to ACTIVATE the collision, you preform another summon of another ball setup. when you preform other ball setup, or in general re summon a ball after 5P quickly, it will simply bring the non activated ball closer to the one you hit with 5 P. thus it will collide later on.

the reason they are called alternate, is that basically for this to work, you need to different formation and you alter between them. can work with 2 balls > 2 balls / or 3 Balls > 1 Ball / or 3 Balls > 2 balls...etc

so in this example, one formation covers air more, and the other covers ground and bounce. the first is more forward, the second is more backward

they are: HS, P (first formation)

S, P (second formation)

to do it, just simply input the following >> HSBall , P Ball / 5p to hit ball, then quickly SBall , P ball

Whoa... Haha thanks for the explanation teef, but i find your english hard to follow my friend but no worries. I wasnt asking about the formation that you just explained, i was asking about the formation that came AFTER the one you explained.

But no worries dude, i slowed it down and looked at your inputs and figured it out... What you are doing and i was able to replicate finally, which is a very strong pattern, is:

P>K (small dash) 5P>P

You call out 2 balls then dash and 5p then summon another ball after the 5P and all 3 summons get activated for the price of only using one attack as opposed to using 2 attacks. So basically more coverage for less recovery. A great pattern, but a bit on the executional sides of things. Seems like it will be a great pattern to throw out after the standard S>H>5P formation.

[Hugotakon]

Thanks for the vids and explanation xxteefxx surely Im gonna try all ur ideas, as a venom player one of the best things is that flexible an creative game u can play.

 

The main reason of this post is to ask for tips or directions for the grab that skilled venom players use y know that grab is an universal move in gg, but for some reason I cannot do it with venom as fluid as other characters ex. ky or I-no.

 

I´ve seen Fino venom grabbing so close of the ground when enemies jump hited balls, or a grab before a dash (the most of time I get 6HS), any tips for that, as a powerful grab I want to explode it. 

[DaiAndOh]

A lot of Fino's air grabs come from great reads, both reading the opponents jumping, as well as resets from stray ball hits. Experiment in training mode with those situations and watch your opponents to make your own reads.

[Seiki]

Hey fellow assassins! I've found a way to optimize the timing for charge inputs. If you didn't already know you can hold 3 while dashing and venom won't crouch and it charges your cock slider. Go into training mode and set your back facing the corner and forward dash with the method above and try to cock slider asap. Basically what you have is a visual representation of the amount of time it took for you to charge your move. Try to get the move to come out as close to the corner as you can!

 

After getting the hang of that try to do dashing 2k>2s>cock slider and find the shortest dash distance you need to get that to work Hint: it's pretty short! There might be a very small window to delay the 2k>2s gatling so you can get some charge time in there as well (need confirmation on this, felt like it in the button presses but i couldn't visually confirm). There are plenty of situations where you want to reset pressure by dashing in with a 2k, like after following a P ball, YRC'd stinger aim, etc.  2k can get FD'd to make a c.S whiff and a regularly blocked 2k at max range can also make c.S whiff. This method allows you to get a dash in pressure string ending in huge frame advantage when c.S is not in range.

[SIne]

I am not exactly sure what a 'cock slider ' is, but yeah, i think this has been around since ST, I believe it's part of DS's ST fundamentals course. Universal to pretty much all charge characters, you can charge while moving forward by holding down forward while in walking or dashing animation.

[OP8]

I am not exactly sure what a 'cock slider ' is, but yeah, i think this has been around since ST, I believe it's part of DS's ST fundamentals course. Universal to pretty much all charge characters, you can charge while moving forward by holding down forward while in walking or dashing animation.

Not many characters can walk forward by holding 3. This usually applies to characters with a run dash and [2]8 charge moves. While 3 will give you your down charge, it doesn't advance you forward unless you're already dashing.

[DaiAndOh]

Do we really have to call Carcass Raid, "cock slider"?

But yes, 66(3) is commonly used to help with charge. 2K, c.S(1), S Carcass would be preferred over 2S because the one hit of c.S is level 5, making your Carcass a true blockstring (shit the stick from 3->5->8).

In addition, you need it to help the damage of most of Venom's throw bnbs, with 66(3) 2HS > S Carcass.

[Seiki]

I think you guys are missing what my post is mainly about. When learning a charge character one thing that is important to learn is being able to execute a charge move with the minimum necessary charge time. Practicing doing carcass raid after dashing from the corner as soon as you can helps do that. The distance you traveled from the corner helps you visualize the charge time you used. Eventually you will find the minimum necessary charge time by getting venom to do it as close to the corner after leaving as possible

[SnowMonkeyFunky]

Dai, I caught your match vs Zidane's Leo on the youtube archive and saw you do a really clean example of S > P ball oki. Thanks for that, I've been struggling to find a clear illustration of that setup.

 

Unrelated question, but does absorbing projectiles with QV make it charge faster, or just nullify them? And is there a limit to how many hits it can absorb/nullify (IE can a QV charge destroy something like Dark Angel or Ky's CSE)?