DaiAndOh Posted February 1, 2015 Author Posted February 1, 2015 Thanks a lot!Not sure if I can apply anything special tomorrow against Zidane, just play well overall and remember all the anti-Leo stuff I learned from him in the first place.Edit: Also give it up to Snowmonkeyfunky for top 16 in what I think was his first tournament!
SnowMonkeyFunky Posted February 2, 2015 Posted February 2, 2015 Thanks Dai. It was great meeting you and everyone else I got to talk to throughout the event. *This wasn't my first tournament; I've been to the past 2 EVOs to compete in TTT2 and this past year in BBCP, but this is my first time competing in any Guilty Gear. Can't wait to see everyone at Winter Brawl too. This weekend definitely gave me that push I need to get my ass off netplay and attend more tournaments.
Eshi Posted February 2, 2015 Posted February 2, 2015 Bishop Runout is hilarious & super fun. I use it every other match now with surprisingly good results! This super has 10 frames of start-up and recovers 3 frames after the super flash so it's incredibly safe. It bounces off every wall after it misses so it's very difficult to escape, plus you can teleport on top of it, spam carcass raid/sting raid on it to keep them locked down while stick pool balls on the screen. It behaves fairly erratically though so I have much more success improvising with it than trying to find setups. Most underrated super in the game?
SIne Posted February 2, 2015 Posted February 2, 2015 Yes!!! its also a great round ender when you dont feel like comitting to anything, it acts like FB stinger aim in the sense of the wall bounce and in the sense that is forces erratic actions from your opponent and forces them to give up their turn cause they have to stop moving and start blocking once you do like carcass raid H or Stinger H (unless its chipp, lol) and the extra bounce has saved me in some pretty tight spots cause the always forget it bounces or they cant predict where it will bounce and hit them,ha . Yep I'd nominate it for most underrated super and i find myself using it more and more midscreen and corner
GodPress Posted February 2, 2015 Posted February 2, 2015 The more I use it the more I'm taking a shine to it, it's saved me from certain death a few times.
Raynex Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 Fellow Venoms, I have a question! I'm in the lab working on okizeme, and I'm noticing that the 3 common KD enders (2D, 6HS, QV in corner) change the timing of certain setups. For example, if I end corner combos with 6HS P set K set as opposed to 6HS PQV K set, does that affect the application of the oki? It's important because in my experience, most combos that end in QV are shorter (you have to be closer to hit hard knockdown QVs). In return the setups are stronger because of more advantage post knockdown. On the other hand, almost every corner combo (especially the damaging routes) can end with 6HS from varying distances. But I don't know if I should do one over the other : /
DaiAndOh Posted February 5, 2015 Author Posted February 5, 2015 As long as the knockdown and setup is legit, it's basically your choice and a variable. Go for a little extra damage? Or go for a different setup?
Eshi Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 Fellow Venoms, I have a question! I'm in the lab working on okizeme, and I'm noticing that the 3 common KD enders (2D, 6HS, QV in corner) change the timing of certain setups. For example, if I end corner combos with 6HS P set K set as opposed to 6HS PQV K set, does that affect the application of the oki? It's important because in my experience, most combos that end in QV are shorter (you have to be closer to hit hard knockdown QVs). In return the setups are stronger because of more advantage post knockdown. On the other hand, almost every corner combo (especially the damaging routes) can end with 6HS from varying distances. But I don't know if I should do one over the other : / 2D gives the least amount of time for setting plays, 6H is in the middle, QV gives the most (because it gets out a ball already). If you can opt for more than one of them then it's just up to you. Constantly vary your setplay to keep your opponents guessing, Venom gets dramatically stronger with your knowledge of setups. For this specific example, what do you do with your P > K ball setup? You have more frame advantage after P QV and you're probably closer so you have different options than 6H > double set.
Raynex Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 Interesting. Thanks for the feedback! I shouldn't have used PK as an example; I use KP formation for corner oki quite alot. You're totally right as well, I should vary the setups to keep things different visually as well. Off PK formation I j.K the upper ball and blockstring to P ball / cancel to MS / tick throw after K ball is blocked. Or I 5K the P ball and j.S the K ball for meaty pressure and a decent 50/50. KP formation in my experience is really hard to react to. I try my best to go for KQV, P set, 5P, and use the low KBall for a teleport 3way: land 2K or 2D / iad j.SH / teleport empty and throw (this one is the cash money) I'm just starting out though so I'm trying to declutter my mind and focus on a few easy formations for now then expand later. You guys make great points
GodPress Posted February 6, 2015 Posted February 6, 2015 Interesting. Thanks for the feedback! I shouldn't have used PK as an example; I use KP formation for corner oki quite alot. You're totally right as well, I should vary the setups to keep things different visually as well. Off PK formation I j.K the upper ball and blockstring to P ball / cancel to MS / tick throw after K ball is blocked. Or I 5K the P ball and j.S the K ball for meaty pressure and a decent 50/50. KP formation in my experience is really hard to react to. I try my best to go for KQV, P set, 5P, and use the low KBall for a teleport 3way: land 2K or 2D / iad j.SH / teleport empty and throw (this one is the cash money) I'm just starting out though so I'm trying to declutter my mind and focus on a few easy formations for now then expand later. You guys make great points I covered KP stuff a while back in the formation thread, you're super vulnerable to anyone willing to blitz balls but on top of that, crouching on most characters will mean you always land on the same side, rather than crossup. Just keep that in mind when you're using it.
Raynex Posted February 6, 2015 Posted February 6, 2015 ^ Will do. Doesn't blitz shielding balls screw most setups though? I wonder what the patch has to say about wake-up blitz against setplay On the topic of corner formations, do you know if the KH formation, f.S xx teleport cross-up works consistently in the corner? The HS ball goes offscreen and sometimes I cross-up and sometimes I don't. Is that just me accidentally hitting the HS ball with my f.S or is it wonky sometimes?
GodPress Posted February 6, 2015 Posted February 6, 2015 ^ Will do. Doesn't blitz shielding balls screw most setups though? I wonder what the patch has to say about wake-up blitz against setplay On the topic of corner formations, do you know if the KH formation, f.S xx teleport cross-up works consistently in the corner? The HS ball goes offscreen and sometimes I cross-up and sometimes I don't. Is that just me accidentally hitting the HS ball with my f.S or is it wonky sometimes? It does, however, if you've already teleported when they blitz you're in the unfortunate situation of being in the corner. I dont know the specifics of KH crossups but if its anything similar to KP teleports in the corner sometimes you just wont crossup because the ball is too far off screen.
SnowMonkeyFunky Posted February 9, 2015 Posted February 9, 2015 Does anyone else take notes when they watch match footage? I've gotten into the habit of writing down different setups and pressure strings I want to practice when I have time, and it's accumulated into a decent sized note file on my phone. Here it is tossed up on pastebin if anyone was interested: http://pastebin.com/DSc85yAw
WayINside Posted February 12, 2015 Posted February 12, 2015 It's actually funny how everyone study the same (and only) Fino's video :D
DaiAndOh Posted February 12, 2015 Author Posted February 12, 2015 If you're only studying Fino, that's a mistake...
SnowMonkeyFunky Posted February 12, 2015 Posted February 12, 2015 Fino isn't the only one I watch, that video and the Blacksnake ft5s were just what I happened to be watching when I had enough time to take notes. The notes on my phone have already been expanded so I'll definitely update that pastebin in the future if anyone wants.
SIne Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 Watching all venom vids is the best things to do as well since he is played so little compared to Like Sol, Ky, Millia etc.. but personally tend to integrate Stuff Fino and Heven uses from lockdown oki and pressure causes they have been playing the character longer and Fino is the strongest venom (IMO) so yea he is going to have better setups and stuff, as for US venoms, Blacksnake is the way to go, (even if he refuses to block sometimes, lol) he has been playing the character since forever and plays very different than JP venoms, but his shit is really really legit
Destin Posted February 20, 2015 Posted February 20, 2015 Can anyone break down cr pressure for me? Where to use it, how it loops, escape plans and counters to that ect?
Eshi Posted February 20, 2015 Posted February 20, 2015 Can anyone break down cr pressure for me? Where to use it, how it loops, escape plans and counters to that ect? Carcass Raid pressure works by special canceling from a gatling very quickly & immediately holding down charge after. This gives enough time to do something like close Slash > Carcass Raid S > Carcass Raid S with no gap at all, if you execute it correctly. It's best in corner pressure because they can generally just avoid it midscreen. In the corner it will frame trap mashing; there's only a 6 frame gap between Carcass Raids if you perfectly execute the charge. The best answer is to jump out of the second CR and then escape the corner, which you can read with H CR. H version has much more start-up so it's easier to punish, but if they're forced to block it (not at point blank range) then it's way more plus and extends your pressure even longer.
Destin Posted February 20, 2015 Posted February 20, 2015 What about midscreen? If the opponent blocks a string into longer range s cr, the opponent should attempt to jump backwards? Super jump out?
LuimanXrd Posted February 20, 2015 Posted February 20, 2015 In midscreen, if you are in the 25-49% tension range, you can go for the option selected pressure. Basically, for example, if you want to dash in and do a 2K xx c. S pressure string, you'd do 2K xx KSH so that if the opponent tries to get away from the 2K, the YRC comes out and you can punish the backdash, air throw them if they jumped, block their reversal or whatever they try to do. If the 2K connects, you go on with your normal c. S pressure. Outside of that, when you're on frame advantage, 2H can stuff many things, including jumps in their early frames and short backdashes (they get snuffed by the second hit). Once you have educated them not to avoid the pressure, you can go for more rewarding options.
Eshi Posted February 20, 2015 Posted February 20, 2015 What about midscreen? If the opponent blocks a string into longer range s cr, the opponent should attempt to jump backwards? Super jump out? The opponent will likely try to jump out in this situation. I dash forward and do 2K/2D like 99% of the time to punish up-backing and it hits the vast majority of the time. Once you've established that base level of respect then you can try to go for other things. Also, remember that you can input dash as 63 instead of 66 - this allows you to hold dash while also charging another carcass raid.
SnowMonkeyFunky Posted February 20, 2015 Posted February 20, 2015 Something I see a few high level Venom players do after a long ranged blocked CR is IAD in with jK+HS into an air string. If they jump into range they get airthrown, and if they stay grounded or jump in such a way that is out of airthrow range they're still being pressured. It's by no means airtight, but definitely worth considering if you catch them hesitating.
DaiAndOh Posted February 20, 2015 Author Posted February 20, 2015 You can't airthrow during or after an airdash. I imagine is generally done because of the advantage you have from a blocked S Carcass at that range, getting in like that if you can is going to be more productive than ground dashing. But airdashing like that without cover of frames + respect or projectiles is just going to get you killed against almost anyone.
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