[Xrd] Slayer Gameplay Discussion

[Dandy Chippu]

Yeah it's still a thing and you just cancel a back dash into a special by TK'ing an input so BDC Dandy would be 44 2147k or p, BDC mappa is 44 2369k/p and BDC bite is 6321447h, you can do more but this is the stuff but these are just basics

[koufdell]

New to the game, i dont really understand how to do the back dash cancel. Is that still a thing?

ok i will make a little tutorial for that

[zedreamcast]

Yeah it's still a thing and you just cancel a back dash into a special by TK'ing an input so BDC Dandy would be 44 2147k or p, BDC mappa is 44 2369k/p and BDC bite is 6321447h, you can do more but this is the stuff but these are just basics

oh awesome and what are the benefits of using the BDC? I know it gives a bit of invincibility on start up but im relatively new to fighting games so im not 100% sure why thats good, does that mean that they cant hit me until the actual hit box comes in?

[fogelstrom]

This has already been discussed several times in this thread. However I guess we'll go over it again.
It gives you 6F invul afaik.

So if you do BDC P Mappa that has 9F startup you have 6F invul and can only be hit during the last 3F of startup.

For BDC Bite it has 7F startup so if you do frame perfect BDC Bite it's a command throw with onl 1F startup without invul wich is insanely good.
Slayer has 4F jump startup. That is 4F before he takes to the air in wich you are open for attacks. If you BDJC (backdash jump cancel) you get invul for 6F and thus you will always be able to jump out of anything. Even if the active frames surpass the invul frames you can FD and will get stuck in your jump up. This way you can, with the loss of tension, negate almost all high-low mixups in the game.

Obviously BDJC is harder to perform than it sounds since it's 1F reversal window with 1F extra of buffering.

[daymendou]

Some slight research suggests it could be only 4F

http://jbbs.shitaraba.net/bbs/lite/read.cgi/game/57150/1421125495/441

Against Dark Angel, after pressing 9P to BDC Mappa, Slayer gets hit on frame 5.

The Japanese for BDC is 無敵付加 or 無敵[move name] so it's not too hard to search for. I think I'll keep looking

[RoBoBOBR]

IMO since like GGXXS BDC is more about using 44's invuls to make something whiff and then mappa it's recovery frames. The only exeption is bite, and with perfect execution it gives you invuls to cover all of the start-up frames (last frame of strart-up = first active frame). One of the "VS Slayer" mission, the one about punishing mappa, features a BDC bite and you can't beat it, so i think BDC still gives 6F.

[Wirya]

4F is sad. I like RoBo's explanation better, lol.

[SuperJ]

unless bdc invul varies per special or the frame data for dot is fucked up, bdc dot covers all of dot startup, implying at least 6f invul.

 

bdc bite will beat meaties, but i'm not sure if the invul covers the 1st active frame or if cmd grab active frames actually beat strikes on the same frame, which is what the accent core wiki alleges.

 

what really sucks, but is probably best for balance, is you don't get the full 6f invul if you bdc jump. the invul runs out once you are airborne. so you can't bdc fd jump / j.p / air throw to get out of literally every oki setup ever anymore. oh wells. otoh with the post-patch 3f input buffer, bdc bite might become the best dp in the game lol. and or bdc blitz

 

i wish slayer still had bdc air throw ;_;

[daymendou]

Ok, 6F looks absolutely correct

I tested that Slayer mission. You hear the BDC with only sound effects on so he's definitely doing BDC Bite.

If you don't IB Mappa, Bite will whiff, so all my tests are with IB. Since Slayer does cS fS K Mappa, I assume I am +6 against him.

7F normals always lost. Ky 2D has 12 active frames and never hit.

For 6F, I used Millia 5H. If it hits, it's always before the backdash, which agrees with Slayer being -6 after IB K Mappa.

Stun Dipper is 5F and active forever. It can hit before the backdash of course. Interestingly, it will never hit during BDC Bite, so I guess throws do get priority over strikes. In other words , BDC Bite is fully strike invulnerable when in range.

You don't get meter in the mission so I can't test projectile invulnerability.

[MacArthur Blunts]

Expect to see some awesome shit soon guys...

[MacArthur Blunts]

I need to post some replays, or you guys should just look up macblunts25 replays...

[RoBoBOBR]

Erm where would we look them up?

[koufdell]

so i need your help guys is this a correct bdc dot or do i need to cancel backdash faster?i can already do it just hear the sound of the bd >dot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uw4eE_l5tcA

[SolAscension]

Odd as it may seem, watching Hase get run over in these match vids on bicuits channel actually made me somewhat happy. Of course I wanted Hase to win, but watching him struggle so hard, and ultimately just come up short because of how Slayer is in Xrd, released some of the tension I've had built up from trying to main Slayer. I tend to take it out on myself pretty harshly when I lose badly, and I'm honest with myself about what is going wrong. It's just kind of nice to see that the issues I have with Slayer, even the best still has.

[fogelstrom]

I can heavily relate to your feelings SolAscension. But even with that said I felt he must have had a bad day/night. He really played off-key imo. Especially against GAKU. But Slayer is bottom tier, the struggle is real. We deserve our wins a bit more than many other charactes and that should be taken to heart more than the losses vs Faust players using 4 normals and 2 specials and run you over.

[tortoos]

My friends don't believe always me, but I definitely feel the struggle at times. Slayer really needs to scare his opponents into not pressing buttons, or space himself just right so he beats their buttons out. The problem is it's really difficult to do that at all times, especially when some characters have just extremely strong neutral game that can compete with his, or flat out beat it at certain ranges. You couple this with the fact that, he honestly doesn't get as much damage as he should for some moves, has to really rely on getting gimmicky outside of the IL 50/50 with 2k, and the fact that anyone with a brain is going to burst your meaty counter hits that you worked so hard to get, and it's not really any surprise that you feel the struggle. I often wonder why a character that's designed to just wreck his opponent on counter hit has to rapid virtually everything outside of a few set starters if he wants solid damage off of it. That just makes no sense to me. I think it's normal to be frustrated by the limitations of your character at times. While I personally don't think we have it as bad as axl or potemkin, he's definitely not a great character.

[Wirya]

I actually think Potemkin is slightly better than Slayer....

[tortoos]

I don't know. Maybe. You know, I really wish we could get big bang upper back, that could really help us get some damage off of stray hits and confirm into knockdown without it being a REALLY meaty hit. or 2HS stagger or... yeah.

[GaijinMo]

*shrug* I don't agree with these sentiments. Hase is one of the most technical players. Of course he's going to suffer horribly online. That's not his stomping ground. Fino is practically a god of Venom and the others played their sets very well too, because they're top players. IMO it's in bad taste to say that our struggles can be compared to what Hase is going through in those videos. High-level play doesn't just boil down to "do my buttons beat the other character's buttons in neutral?" The metagame evolves to be a lot more advanced than that, which is why the tiers are completely different depending on the level of play. I'm not saying we're idiots, I'm just saying that if you've played a fighting game at a high level, you'd know that low and mid-level players shouldn't needlessly draw parallels like that to justify losses.

 

Obviously, I hope they make Slayer a little better (in the solid way, not the "everything sucks but if you land a bullshit abare CH PB, you win" way), but that's not what I was addressing above.

[Melo]

While I don't think the vision of Slayer in Xrd is for him to to be the abare monster he was in AC+R, FB dandy would be a much better way to convert stray hits into full combo and knockdown. Full combo from a 5k for only 25%? Yes please! BBU ain't got nothing on that.

 

FB dandy was also useful in maintaining pressure with blocked 5K being able to lead into FB Dandy UP. Slayer isn't very good at keeping pressure for long. A more reasonable, and Xrd "appropriate", change to help Slayer keep pressure is to make 6HS jump cancellable as well as special cancellable. That would be sick.

 

I would like to get 6P CH back though. Why does Sol, with the best DP, a 3 frame normal, Fafnir (Xrd's BBU if there was one), everyhit leads into knockdown get that but we don't? /whineaboutSol,IjustwantSlayertogetsomefuntoo.

[Wirya]

Guys, why are we having this conversation? lol, Slayer is gonna rock in 1.10.

[daymendou]

I want to see how many times we can combo 5H online in 1.1

5HHH the abare monster

Edit: maybe 5HH2H

[fogelstrom]

Guys, why are we having this conversation? lol, Slayer is gonna rock in 1.10.

 

Because Hase, the best Slayer in the world, got blown up repeatedly.

[Wirya]

lol nvm

[CounterHit-DOT]

Guys, 1.1 is far far away from non-arcade players...So we are going to have this conversation again a certain number of times IMO haha